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Archive 2024 · Canon departure thoughts
  
 
alundeb
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p.22 #1 · Canon departure thoughts




bernardl wrote:
The photographer published the meta data but I can’t find it now.

I think that it was an a1 with a 24mm at f1.6, ISO100 if I am not mistaken shutter speed was quite high, I think 1/8,000s.

Cheers,
Bernard

You are right, it was confirmed 1/8000. With 1/80000, there would still only be a trail, but shorter. So Mike will conclude that the 20D would be the better camera for this shot anyway


Jul 25, 2024 at 03:00 PM
bernardl
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p.22 #2 · Canon departure thoughts


alundeb wrote:
You are right, it was confirmed 1/8000. With 1/80000, there would still only be a trail, but shorter. So Mike will conclude that the 20D would be the better camera for this shot anyway

Certainly yes. The 20D has legendary DR as well (I think that Phaseone and Hasselblad secretly use 20D sensors stitched together). And it’s AF is still clearly ahead of anything Sony and Nikon (why even mention Nikon?) ever did.

I hear that AP just read this thread and decided to dump their A1s and move to 20Ds instead. The CEO of AP was heard saying “that Mike guy is something else”.

Edited on Jul 25, 2024 at 04:27 PM · View previous versions
Jul 25, 2024 at 03:04 PM
tsunathanh
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p.22 #3 · Canon departure thoughts


Per my earlier post also unique and interesting offerings for wildlife. RF100-500 that's wildly versatile; 600 and 800 DO; 100-400 that weighs nothing; 200-800. The Nikon PF prime glass seems great. Let's see how the R5II autofocus stacks up against the R5 and Z8.



bernardl wrote:
Canon does indeed have some uniquely interesting offerings for event and sport shooters. And indeed a 100/120-300mm f2.8 is a no brainer compared to a fixed 300mm f2.8 for those applications. The only lens I’d rather have is a 100-200mm f2.0 TC. But that doesn’t exist… yet.

The 70-200mm f4 debate is interesting especially when you compare it to a 70-180mm f2.8 offering about the same weight, one stop more light but 20mm shorter. It would be best to be able to choose either I guess.

On the standard end of the discussion, having done a bit of event shooting myself I...Show more →
Jul 25, 2024 at 03:23 PM
lighthound
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p.22 #4 · Canon departure thoughts


gdanmitchell wrote:
“Mine is bigger than yours!”

;-)

That's what he said.
And I wasn't about to argue with him.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53853070343_76ddfdce3d_h.jpg
Jul 25, 2024 at 03:25 PM
bernardl
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p.22 #5 · Canon departure thoughts


tsunathanh wrote:
Per my earlier post also unique and interesting offerings for wildlife. RF100-500 that's wildly versatile; 600 and 800 DO; 100-400 that weighs nothing; 200-800. The Nikon PF prime glass seems great. Let's see how the R5II autofocus stacks up against the R5 and Z8.




Those are certainly interesting options for some types of birding yes, in particular for photographers prioritizing weight and compactness over other aspects. I’d be interested to see a comparison of the Canon 100-500mm vs its Tamron equivalent available in FE and Z mounts.

Cheers,
Bernard
Jul 25, 2024 at 03:30 PM
Cliff L.
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p.22 #6 · Canon departure thoughts


I see Canon's latest financial results have been posted: https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-2nd-quarter-2024-financials-making-money/

It's interesting that Canon's full year bottom-line profit increased by ¥15.7 Billion, while Nikon's corporate profits declined by almost the same amount (¥15.2 Billion) during the same period. If I was still a Canon shareholder, I would sure be glad they aren't following Nikon's lead.







Ouch.



Edited on Jul 25, 2024 at 04:42 PM · View previous versions
Jul 25, 2024 at 03:53 PM
bernardl
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p.22 #7 · Canon departure thoughts


molson wrote:
I see Canon's latest financial results have been posted: https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-2nd-quarter-2024-financials-making-money/

It's interesting that Canon's full year bottom-line profit increased by ¥15.7 Billion, while Nikon's corporate profits declined by almost the same amount (¥15.2 Billion) during the same period. If I was still a Canon shareholder, I would sure be glad they aren't following Nikon's lead.

If you insist on posting irrelevant information, how about this? Average of -20% decline in first half of 2024 vs 2023.

https://photorumors.com/2024/07/24/canon-sales-are-tanking/

Why is it irrelevant? Because it’s simply the result of release cycle and the impact of rumors. Canon will recover the second half of 2024.

You have already been corrected once in this very thread about the Nikon results yet you persist to spread misinformation. The Nikon camera division has posted excellent results. Probably as a consequence of the high end Z8 being one of the best selling cameras of 2023 although it only came out in April?

Why the urge to do this? Why not stick to facts and present them in a fair way? What’s so scary with reality?

Cheers,
Bernard
Jul 25, 2024 at 04:11 PM
koenkooi
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p.22 #8 · Canon departure thoughts




bernardl wrote:
If you insist on posting irrelevant information, how about this? Average of -20% decline in first half of 2024 vs 2023.

https://photorumors.com/2024/07/24/canon-sales-are-tanking/

Why is it irrelevant? Because it’s simply the result of release cycle and the impact of rumors. Canon will recover the second half of 2024.

You have already been corrected once in this very thread about the Nikon results yet you persist to spread misinformation. The Nikon camera division has posted excellent results. Probably as a consequence of the high end Z8 being one of the best selling cameras of 2023 although it only came out in April?

Why the urge to...Show more →
You’re mixing global and japan numbers. Photorumors says ‘domestic’ the article, but their headline implies global numbers. One might say that’s misleading.
Jul 25, 2024 at 04:58 PM
Dragonfire
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p.22 #9 · Canon departure thoughts


Lighthound - Dave, I have seen too much


Jul 25, 2024 at 04:59 PM
bernardl
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p.22 #10 · Canon departure thoughts


koenkooi wrote:
You’re mixing global and japan numbers. Photorumors says ‘domestic’ the article, but their headline implies global numbers. One might say that’s misleading.

Which is exactly my point. And I did present this information as irrelevant did I not?

Should I have highlighted the double level of irrelevance? Ok, I concede. 🤣

Do you have the WW numbers for first half of 2024 vs 2023?

Cheers,
Bernard


Edited on Jul 25, 2024 at 05:47 PM · View previous versions
Jul 25, 2024 at 05:03 PM
AmbientMike
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p.22 #11 · Canon departure thoughts



bernardl wrote:
You apparently still haven’t understood that DR values for cameras applying NR on their raw files means absolutely nothing. It’s rather puzzling. Either DR is important to you (and it appears to be since you mention it all the time) and you need to do a bit of studying and possibly use equipment whose actual DR is known (most cameras except Canon and the a9III) or it’s not and then why not admit it? Why drink the marketing coolaid and make a fool of yourself by boasting about believing anything Canon wants you to believe?

Cheers;
Bernard


It's not like Sony ever used NR on their raw files or anything. Those stars disappeared by themselves.

You've apparently drank quite a lot of Sony marketing coolaid, the way you continue to post anti Canon drivel.

Why can't you admit it?
Jul 25, 2024 at 05:10 PM
bernardl
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p.22 #12 · Canon departure thoughts


AmbientMike wrote:
It's not like Sony ever used NR on their raw files or anything. Those stars disappeared by themselves.

You've apparently drank quite a lot of Sony marketing coolaid, the way you continue to post anti Canon drivel.

Why can't you admit it?


I don’t need to admit it because the application by Sony of the star eating NR had no impact on DR computations, at least not at lower ISO. I was a high ISO thing only.

However I’ll gladly admit that I would have preferred them not to do it either and was vocal about that issue at the time.

As far as I know the only Sony camera that cheated on DR the way Canon does for all their recent mirrorless bodies is the a9III. And Sony is doing it for the same reason, which is to hide exactly how poor their low ISO DR is. Everyone is then free, just like for Canon cameras, to decide whether this issue is more critical than the value delivered by the camera for their applications. I would obviously prefer Sony not to apply any NR to their raw files. Fully agree with you on this.

Do you at least agree that Nikon, Fuji, Phaseone, Hasselblad are not doing it?

What I post will only be perceived as anti-Canon if your view of Canon is not aligned with reality. I am only describing facts. And if I get my facts wrong I am always glad to apologize, admit it and move forward.

Cheers,
Bernard
Jul 25, 2024 at 05:27 PM
chez
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p.22 #13 · Canon departure thoughts


It’s funny how a few members are hanging onto this dynamic range thing when the OP explicitly said he’s not concerned about iso or DR. He’s more concerned about the higher pixel sensors from Sony and Nikon birding cameras and their lens lineup.

Shooting cameras at higher iSO which is normal for bird photography, they pretty much equate in dynamic range. Most cameras differ at their lower iso where the OP probably never uses.
Jul 25, 2024 at 06:16 PM
bernardl
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p.22 #14 · Canon departure thoughts




chez wrote:
It’s funny how a few members are hanging onto this dynamic range thing when the OP explicitly said he’s not concerned about iso or DR. He’s more concerned about the higher pixel sensors from Sony and Nikon birding cameras and their lens lineup.

Shooting cameras at higher iSO which is normal for bird photography, they pretty much equate in dynamic range. Most cameras differ at their lower iso where the OP probably never uses.

They see Canon as being under attack. They couldn’t care less about the needs of the OP. Their only focus is to either deny reality about Canon’s shortcomings and/or convey the impression that other brands are even worse, regardless of facts.

I am done. It’s pointless. I feel like I am talking with members of a sect.

Cheers,
Bernard
Jul 25, 2024 at 06:25 PM
Imagemaster
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p.22 #15 · Canon departure thoughts


bernardl wrote:
I am done. It’s pointless. I feel like I am talking with members of a sect.

Goodbye then. There will always be people complaining about every brand of camera and lens, despite the fact that all the existing gear we have to choose from today works just fine.

Seems you just need more gear:

Nikon FF: Zf, Z7II, Z8, Z9 / 14-30mm f4 S, 14-24mm f2.8 S, 24-70mm f2.8 S, 24-120mm f4 S, 24-200mm, 70-200mm f2.8 S, F 19mm T/S,
20mm f1.8 S, F 28mm f1.4 E, 35mm f1.8 S, Voigtlander 35mm f2.0 APO-Lanthar, Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 Nokton, 50mm f1.2 S, Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f1.0, Voigtlander 50mm f2.0 APO-Lanthar, 58mm f0.95, 85mm f1.8 S, 85mm f1.2 S, F 105mm f1.4 E, 105mm f2.8 S, 135mm f1.8 S, 180-600mm, F 200mm f2.0 VR, 400mm 4.5 S, 400mm f2.8 TC S, TC x1.4, x2.0
Sony FF: a9III, 35mm f1.4 GM, 50mm f1.2 GM
MF: Fuji GFX-100s, GFX-100II, 20-35mm f4, 45-100mm...Show more →

Is that all you have


Jul 25, 2024 at 06:40 PM
Cliff L.
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p.22 #16 · Canon departure thoughts


chez wrote:
It’s funny how a few members are hanging onto this dynamic range thing when the OP explicitly said he’s not concerned about iso or DR.

It's more about contradicting the misinformation from the one or two "special" members stubbornly claiming it's a problem with Canon despite all evidence to the contrary.

Some people have said they value these "I'm leaving Brand X" threads as a source of information, so it's important to stick to objective, factual information, such as Bill Claff's test results. If the OP has no interest in that, he doesn't have to read it...
Jul 25, 2024 at 06:53 PM
bernardl
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p.22 #17 · Canon departure thoughts


Imagemaster wrote:
Goodbye then. There will always be people complaining about every brand of camera and lens, despite the fact that all the existing gear we have to choose from today works just fine.

Seems you just need more gear:

Is that all you have

The OP is complaining,

I am not. Very happy with my equipment. And I agree, I need the best gear to compensate for my shortcomings. 🤣

But yes, bye guys. For those in that mindset, and I know it’s a minority here and that most contributors are smart individuals doubling as talented photographers, enjoy your group of Canon lovers. There is nothing like surrounding oneself with people who tell you want you want to hear. It’s a great way to progress in life.

Cheers,
Bernard



Edited on Jul 25, 2024 at 08:12 PM · View previous versions
Jul 25, 2024 at 07:19 PM
AmbientMike
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p.22 #18 · Canon departure thoughts



bernardl wrote:
I don’t need to admit it because the application by Sony of the star eating NR had no impact on DR computations, at least not at lower ISO. I was a high ISO thing only.

However I’ll gladly admit that I would have preferred them not to do it either and was vocal about that issue at the time.

As far as I know the only Sony camera that cheated on DR the way Canon does for all their recent mirrorless bodies is the a9III. And Sony is doing it for the same reason, which is to hide exactly how poor their...Show more →

The main problem is that you think everything you post is "reality", even thought it is often goofy and not even true.

No, I don't think the other brands aren't doing it, I think it's ridiculous to think that they perform no NR on their raw files then turn around and apply all kinds of corrections on their lenses. Even on Rebels I've seen stuff, who even knows what goes on in these cameras

But if you bought a $6k low dynamic range 24mp camera that probably has inferior high iso you might have joined a sect and drank too much coolaid. Like you basically, insultingly claim others have done





Jul 25, 2024 at 07:23 PM
chez
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p.22 #19 · Canon departure thoughts




AmbientMike wrote:
The main problem is that you think everything you post is "reality", even thought it is often goofy and not even true.

No, I don't think the other brands aren't doing it, I think it's ridiculous to think that they perform no NR on their raw files then turn around and apply all kinds of corrections on their lenses. Even on Rebels I've seen stuff, who even knows what goes on in these cameras

But if you bought a $6k low dynamic range 24mp camera that probably has inferior high iso you might have joined a sect and drank too much...Show more →

But are people buying the A93 for its dynamic range or high iso, or are they buying the A93 for its global shutter, it’s leading AF and it’s 120fps?

I highly doubt people give a rats ass about the low iso dynamic range in the A93.


Jul 25, 2024 at 08:19 PM
nhanzero
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p.22 #20 · Canon departure thoughts


Well well, so we are now out of the Dynamic Range trend and now somehow MEGAPIXEL race is back on the menu? Last time I heard Dynamic Range is the only stuff that matters.

https://global.canon/en/ir/results/2024/rslt2024q2e.pdf

From Canon financial report, I guess with the release of R1 at low MPx, Canon is DOOMED™ for another consecutive year just like for the last several years?
Jul 25, 2024 at 11:07 PM
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