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NEVER use Paypal Gift, Venmo, Zelle, Apple Pay, Google Pay or any other uninsured payment!
  

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Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


It's important to avoid using uninsured payment methods like Paypal Family & Friends, Venmo, Zelle or any other uninsured payment method when conducting transactions online. Although these methods may help you avoid paying taxes or fees, they do not provide any insurance if something goes wrong. Financial institutions put these fees in place for a reason, and they should be considered as a form of insurance.

At Fredmiranda.com, we do not guarantee transactions, and it is the responsibility of buyers and sellers to protect themselves. We provide a platform for members to post their items, but ultimately the payment method used is a decision made between the two parties involved.

To ensure safe transactions, we recommend that members only use insured credit cards or regular Paypal. We advise against using payment methods like bank transfer, money order, money owed payment, Paypal Gift (Family and Friends), Venmo, Zelle, or any other uninsured payment method. We also caution members to be aware of transactions initiated from Want to Buy (WTB) threads and to check references before making any purchases.

It's important to never participate in transactions sent by email outside of the FM Private message system. Scammers may impersonate sellers and send emails to members who have expressed interest in a particular item. We do our best to maintain a safe environment on our site, but ultimately it is up to each member to protect themselves when buying gear online. Links to our Rules and Guidelines and Uninsured Payment Alert can always be found at the top of our Buy and Sell boards.



Jan 23, 2013 at 02:16 AM
powdork
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


Whoa?! No gifts to the Pope seems kind of extreme, but ok.
Of course, we'll let you write it again.



Jan 23, 2013 at 03:34 AM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


In general, I understand where you are coming from.

Some of us have been around here for a while and know other members likewise. I would rather deal with one of them, Paypal gift, check, or money order; than regular Paypal with a new member. Why pay the extra 3%?

Regular Paypal does little to protect the seller. More than a few sellers have been scammed by false claims. Seems more important to establish some trust with whoever you might be dealing with, before finalizing the deal, whether buying or selling.

Paypal, and the Ebay connection, can be frustrating (or even downright unreasonable) to work with. That is one reason some of us are here. I could go into a personal rant, or two, about Paypal/Ebay but will refrain.



Jan 23, 2013 at 05:01 AM
Chet Hall
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


Fred I believe this is very sound advice. I know from firsthand experience how important it is being protected from a scam. I was lucky ...PayPal saved me $1500.00 by getting my money back when I did not protect myself using the 3%. NEVER again! I could have lost it and never recovered the money because I was trying to save $45.00. Deals can be made with the buyer and seller splitting the costs. I understand what pdmphoto is stating with trusted members, but in general it's a must to protect yourself when using PayPal or any other method of payment.

I'm sorry to say I don't think this will be the last time this topic is brought up. Always a good idea to keep it in the light.



Jan 23, 2013 at 05:53 AM
GRM
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


pdmphoto wrote:
Some of us have been around here for a while and know other members likewise. I would rather deal with one of them, Paypal gift, check, or money order; than regular Paypal with a new member. Why pay the extra 3%?


No established member will side with you if you use Paypal gift and the package is lost in the mail.
Second of all, Paypal is a business, they are in for the money. I don't understand why people think they should use paypal services for free.



Jan 23, 2013 at 06:47 AM
Mickey
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


ReneMurea wrote:
No established member will side with you if you use Paypal gift and the package is lost in the mail.
Second of all, Paypal is a business, they are in for the money. I don't understand why people think they should use paypal services for free.


+1. The real issue here isn't just protection it's about doing the right thing. It's unethical to use Paypal gift to receive payment for an item sold. It's little more than stealing. You agreed to the terms when you signed up with Paypal. Just because they are a big company doesn't mean we can cheat them out of what is rightfully theirs. I think it's really generous of them to allow genuine "gift" payments for no fee.



Jan 23, 2013 at 07:11 AM
binary visions
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


I don't agree that it's a moral issue with Paypal.

You pay the 3% so that Paypal protects you. It's not an obligation, it's a choice. Paypal charges a fee in order to ensure that they can pay for the added expense of resolving disputes. I'm not obligated to pay for a collision policy on my car insurance, it's a choice I make, and I pay for that choice.

I do agree that using Paypal "gift" is ridiculous for transactions with strangers on the internet, though. I mean, even with a solid history - have you ever looked through eBay (or even Fred Miranda) feedbacks? It'll be "great job" "fantsatic" "a+ seller" and then suddenly, "item wasn't shipped, I had to file a chargeback."

Who knows what the real story is there? But the reality is that crap happens sometimes, and you pay the 3% so that, when things happen, you aren't out all of your money. I think that's worth it.



Jan 23, 2013 at 07:45 AM
soupcxan
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


Why can't PayPal offer a lower fee on high value items? That would lead to less skirting the fee through gift. If you a selling a $2k lens, is $60 a reasonable fee for an electronic transaction? I don't think so. Consider how much manual work there is to process a paper check for $2k, and yet those are totally free. There should be a sliding scale so that as the value of the payment increases, the % fee declines.

Why can't a competitor come into the market and take this monopoly away?



Jan 23, 2013 at 07:48 AM
Zelaya
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


This is just my humble opinion, I understand checking members feedback is a plus for buying photography equipment here but paying someone as a " Gift" method is a big risk. Why not sell an item and include the paypal fee.


Jan 23, 2013 at 08:19 AM
papamac
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


as a looong time paypal user I have had a few deals go bad, some not very large amounts of money but others pretty big and the only one I ever got back anything was $40 on a $950 R/C helicopter I sold to a member of a forum with steller fedback so even feeback can be faked or people just go bad. The fact is paypal buyer/seller assurance is a joke, the ONLY way you get money back is if there is money in thier account or paypal buyers credit card, thats it. Paypal starts charging the sender 3% anyway after you send a few "gifts" so it all works out the same. There are no real "gaurantees" with anything, just blind trust in your fellow member.


Jan 23, 2013 at 08:55 AM
 


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therealhershey
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


papamac wrote:
as a looong time paypal user I have had a few deals go bad, some not very large amounts of money but others pretty big and the only one I ever got back anything was $40 on a $950 R/C helicopter I sold to a member of a forum with steller fedback so even feeback can be faked or people just go bad. The fact is paypal buyer/seller assurance is a joke, the ONLY way you get money back is if there is money in thier account or paypal buyers credit card, thats it. Paypal starts charging the sender 3%
...Show more

While I haven't personally dealt with PayPal over a transaction/missing good, a couple of friends have had experiences very similar to your's with stuff they purchased on Ebay or through these 1 sale a day types sites... PayPal is a horrible company. I deal with them as little as possible.



Jan 23, 2013 at 09:14 AM
NikonGuyIsHere
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


ReneMurea wrote:
No established member will side with you if you use Paypal gift and the package is lost in the mail.
Second of all, Paypal is a business, they are in for the money. I don't understand why people think they should use paypal services for free.


If the package is lost in the mail, the seller is still responsible for the package regardless of what method of payment was used. Buyer can not be held reliable in this instance. Seller needs to refund and handle with delivery service.

Buyer only gets involved once they receive the package, not before.



Jan 23, 2013 at 09:28 AM
convergent
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


Fred, Thank you so much for this. I have been very frustrated with the whole Paypal "gift" usage by many. When I buy something, I am not giving a "gift" to the seller. In our world of so many feeling entitled to things for free, it seems that sellers don't feel that they should absorb the "cost of sales" and incorporate it into their price. Merchants do this. If you are selling something, you are a pseudo merchant. Offering Paypal increases the number of people that will want to buy from you (vs. check, money order, etc.), and greatly increases convenience to the seller. The seller should recognize the value of this (or not), and offer Paypal (or not).


Jan 23, 2013 at 10:23 AM
Mickey
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


"You pay the 3% so that Paypal protects you. It's not an obligation, it's a choice. Paypal charges a fee in order to ensure that they can pay for the added expense of resolving disputes. I'm not obligated to pay for a collision policy on my car insurance, it's a choice I make, and I pay for that choice."

How could it possibly be a choice?? The fee charged is to make a profit not for any protection and you agreed with it when you signed up. It is clearly stated that there is a fee charged the seller on each transaction. How do you think Paypal makes money?
In the car insurance example how about your choice to not pay for liability? Why not say that is a choice as well?


FROM PAYPAL:

"Small Fee - PayPal fees mainly apply to sellers, who pay a 2.9% transaction fee on the total sale amount plus a $0.30 fee per transaction. There are some exceptions, listed below. If you have a business, see PayPal Merchant Fees for discounted rates and other pricing info."You pay the 3% so that Paypal protects you. It's not an obligation, it's a choice. Paypal charges a fee in order to ensure that they can pay for the added expense of resolving disputes. I'm not obligated to pay for a collision policy on my car insurance, it's a choice I make, and I pay for that choice.



Jan 23, 2013 at 10:26 AM
NsBenitez
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


It's not just about the lack of protection, it's about doing what's right.

If I'm using a paying service for my convenience I can't expect it to be free of charge, it's as simple as that.



Jan 23, 2013 at 10:28 AM
ggOk
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


NikonGuyIsHere wrote:
If the package is lost in the mail, the seller is still responsible for the package regardless of what method of payment was used. Buyer can not be held reliable in this instance. Seller needs to refund and handle with delivery service.

Buyer only gets involved once they receive the package, not before.


+1, I believe it's seller's resposibility to have package insured and claim if lost.

for Paypal Gift options... I'll make the call. if I'm purchasing item that costs more than my bi-week pay check, I'll pay the 3%. For everything else, it's reference first.

/r
Andy



Jan 23, 2013 at 10:32 AM
TooManyShots
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


NsBenitez wrote:
It's not just about the lack of protection, it's about doing what's right.

If I'm using a paying service for my convenience I can't expect it to be free of charge, it's as simple as that.



How about a base fee and not based on the %? I mean, does it take paypal more work to sent $1000 to another person versus $100? No.



Jan 23, 2013 at 11:15 AM
unangelino
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


i wish paypal could crack down on the abuse of their gift service. i like to use it once or twice a year to send a gift; imagine that.

it never fails to amaze me when otherwise savy fmers fail to simply add 3% (or more) to the asking price rather than playing the silly game of paypal gift.

beyond that, using pp gift for non-gifts cheats pp.

yes, a big company like ebay/pp can be cheated when their services are abused.




Jan 23, 2013 at 11:29 AM
TooManyShots
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


How about some examples in which PayPal was able to help the buyers to recover the money when the deal has gone wrong...because the buyers were using the regular paypal? I am not talking about Ebay sales.


Jan 23, 2013 at 11:32 AM
GRM
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions


NikonGuyIsHere wrote:
If the package is lost in the mail, the seller is still responsible for the package regardless of what method of payment was used. Buyer can not be held reliable in this instance. Seller needs to refund and handle with delivery service.


And if the seller doesn't "feel" he's responsible for the lost package, you're out of money. Paypal cant do a thing and why would they do anything for free.



Jan 23, 2013 at 11:46 AM
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