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Archive 2024 · Canon departure thoughts

  
 
artsupreme
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p.21 #1 · Canon departure thoughts


AmbientMike wrote:
Even the 20D has 1/8000.


You can't be taken serious with that comment.



Jul 25, 2024 at 11:55 AM
alundeb
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p.21 #2 · Canon departure thoughts



artsupreme wrote:
You can't be taken serious with that comment.

C'm on, there is literally a zero difference between the 20D and the A9III shutter speed



Jul 25, 2024 at 11:58 AM
RexGig0
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p.21 #3 · Canon departure thoughts


I shifted to Nikon for birds, distant wildlife, and most action in 2018. One big reason was because I had helped my wife set-up her new D500 cameras, in late 2017, and I got to experience the new-for-2016 Nikon AF improvements. Another big reason was so that my wife* and I could share “pro zoom trinity” lenses, and some other telephoto lenses, so that we could spend less to buy lenses, and to save weight when packing, traveling, and generally toting our gear. A personal reason, not significant to all folks, is that I preferred the ergonomics of the D5 more than Canon 1DX-series. Actually, starting with the Nikon D4s, some ergonomic tweaks made me like the big Nikons more than the big Canons, but by the time I could afford a pre-owned D4s, I was able to afford a new D5. (D4s owners were not readily parting with the their D4s cameras, well into 2019.)

So, I bought a D5 in early 2018. Next was a D850 for my wife, as soon as we found one in stock, in March 2018. In mod-2018, I got my D850. YES, for distant birds, resolution DOES matter.

I still use my Canon EOS EF gear for macro. Nikon seemed to have stopped caring much, for macro, years ago. I actually added a second 5D IV, just last week. When we are photographing insects, in their environments, at night, for “citizen scientist” purposes, it is quite apparent that Canon still leads in macro capability, especially when it is “action macro,” shot hand-held, with E-TTL-capable flash.
My wife is VERY envious of my Macro Ring Lite II flash, as she struggles with her R1C1 rig, and my EF 100/2.8L Macro IS seems to outperform her Micro-Nikkor AF-S 105/2.8G.

I am not saying that the Nikon R1C1 macro flash set-up is not capable, but multiple individual bits are a bit “fiddly,” and things can get knocked out of alignment, or even knocked loose from the rig, when one is pursuing freely-moving subjects.

*My wife is the more-senior photographer, by far, and is firmly dedicated to Nikon. For a number of years, I was her spotter, with the binoculars, as well as the driver, sherpa, and general assistant. Not until 2010 did I start using interchangeable-lens cameras.



Jul 25, 2024 at 12:03 PM
AmbientMike
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p.21 #4 · Canon departure thoughts




artsupreme wrote:
You can't be taken serious with that comment.


Seriously?

You do realize 1/8000 is 1/8000 , don't you?

At 20fps r5 has almost 2 stops better DR than A9 III, better in the sun



Jul 25, 2024 at 12:11 PM
alundeb
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p.21 #5 · Canon departure thoughts


Only that the A9III does 1/80000



Jul 25, 2024 at 12:15 PM
AmbientMike
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p.21 #6 · Canon departure thoughts




alundeb wrote:
Only that the A9III does 1/80000


You think he used a ss that fast on a guy talking?

Honestly I doubt he used the top 20D ss, even, maybe 1/2000 is my guess



Jul 25, 2024 at 12:20 PM
alundeb
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p.21 #7 · Canon departure thoughts




AmbientMike wrote:
You think he used a ss that fast on a guy talking?

Honestly I doubt he used the top 20D ss, even, maybe 1/2000 is my guess

Probably even lower, as we can't see the bullet, only the trail.



Jul 25, 2024 at 12:25 PM
Cliff L.
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p.21 #8 · Canon departure thoughts


alundeb wrote:
Probably even lower, as we can't see the bullet, only the trail.



What a useless camera. A Nikon would have recognized and tracked the bullet, with at least 100% of the frames in focus!



Jul 25, 2024 at 12:34 PM
tsunathanh
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p.21 #9 · Canon departure thoughts


She shouldn't be jealous. Ring light flashes are not very good for insect macro photography. Get her a Speedlite and a diffuser from Cygnustech or AK Diffusers, and even a cheap Laowa 5.6 85mm lens and she'll run circles around you with cheaper gear.

RexGig0 wrote:
I shifted to Nikon for birds, distant wildlife, and most action in 2018. One big reason was because I had helped my wife set-up her new D500 cameras, in late 2017, and I got to experience the new-for-2016 Nikon AF improvements. Another big reason was so that my wife* and I could share “pro zoom trinity” lenses, and some other telephoto lenses, so that we could spend less to buy lenses, and to save weight when packing, traveling, and generally toting our gear. A personal reason, not significant to all folks, is that I preferred the ergonomics of the D5
...Show more




Jul 25, 2024 at 12:44 PM
AmbientMike
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p.21 #10 · Canon departure thoughts



alundeb wrote:
Probably even lower, as we can't see the bullet, only the trail.


The bullet going maybe 3000fps so slower than 1/3000, since the trail is more than a foot, imo. Easily possible on 20D

But the R5 and R3 have MASSIVELY better DR on Bill Claff, if he used A9III those cameras almost 2 stops better, in the broad daylight

He said 20fps on the BBC interview , within reach of either Canon camera



Jul 25, 2024 at 12:45 PM
tsunathanh
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p.21 #11 · Canon departure thoughts


Seems there is a lot of talk about the Z8, but reviews I've seen with it show it's autofocus with the new firmware to be around on-par with the R5. I haven't used a Z8 much but when I did it showed focus was locked on, but that was not where the camera was actually focused. We don't know how well AF works with the R5II besides some preliminary claims that it's better.

Also lots of talk about Canon not developing lenses for wildlife shooters. Maybe these are lenses with compromises lots of folks here don't like, but there are a lot of interesting lenses for us in the RF ecosystem. The 100-500 is lighter and has more reach than the previously praised EF 100-400ii. This is a pretty amazing travel lens for all around wildlife. It focuses close, it is sharp, rendering is great, and it actually fits in my bag. No way I'd take the 200-600 from Sony or Nikon with me to South America. It's just too bulky.
The small and cheap 600 and 800 DO primes are also great. People on this forum have taken amazing images with them. And then there is the RF100-400. I love my copy, and lots of very good photos come from it. And take a look at the very-good reviews out of the 200-800. These are a lot of lenses that other systems do not have.
The biggest complaint most people seem to have with them is their relatively dim aperture. How many stops better has noise performance come in the past five years?

I do think there is a lot to envy in the Nikon PF lineup of lenses. They've made their compromises differently than Canon has. I would also love to own the 600 or the 800 6.3. I think I would be really happy with a Z8 and one of those. But this doesn't mean Canon has not been innovating. Virtually all of the RF lenses are better than their EF counterparts in some significant way. More reach, lighter, more compact, higher magnification, etc.

For me, primarily a macro shooter who likes wildlife also, I am excited to see how the AF in the R5II performs, and will be eagerly awaiting it hitting shelves to find out.



Jul 25, 2024 at 01:02 PM
artsupreme
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p.21 #12 · Canon departure thoughts


AmbientMike wrote:
The bullet going maybe 3000fps so slower than 1/3000, since the trail is more than a foot, imo. Easily possible on 20D

But the R5 and R3 have MASSIVELY better DR on Bill Claff, if he used A9III those cameras almost 2 stops better, in the broad daylight

He said 20fps on the BBC interview , within reach of either Canon camera


You aren't understanding the purpose of these new specialty cameras. No one else here would associate the "speeding bullet" global shutter A9III with some 20yr old DSLR. You are just cluttering up these threads with that nonsense by comparing new bodies with the 20yr old rebels you own and use. You need your own vintage DSLR forum here.





Jul 25, 2024 at 01:14 PM
artsupreme
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p.21 #13 · Canon departure thoughts


AmbientMike wrote:
Seriously?

You do realize 1/8000 is 1/8000 , don't you?

At 20fps r5 has almost 2 stops better DR than A9 III, better in the sun



You keep harping on the A9III DR yet there is nothing else like it to compare it with. So until another brand comes out with a global shutter camera that's as capable as the A9III, then talking about the DR hit is not applicable as it's the only game in town. Wait until Canon or Nikon releases their global shutter A9III competitor, and then you can do your DR comparisons. The better DR in the R5 you are pointing out is meaningless if the R5 isn't capable of capturing the shot. Everyone else understands this except for you. Watch at the 3:50 minute mark to understand what this tool is capable of. Go try this with an R5, or your old rebel and report back with your findings.

?t=220





Jul 25, 2024 at 01:20 PM
RexGig0
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p.21 #14 · Canon departure thoughts


tsunathanh wrote:
She shouldn't be jealous. Ring light flashes are not very good for insect macro photography. Get her a Speedlite and a diffuser from Cygnustech or AK Diffusers, and even a cheap Laowa 5.6 85mm lens and she'll run circles around you with cheaper gear.



Thanks. She does have a quite good diffuser, that she can use on an SB-910 or SB-5000. After being frustrated with the R1C1, I am almost certain that she will not try to use it during the next “Moth Night,” this weekend.

It is true that a ring flash is not “best” for insect photography, but the Canon Macro Ring Lite is all in one unit, and relatively low-bulk, making it quick and low-fuss to use. These are not Nat Geo attempts, but simply species counts, that document place and time. I can use E-TTL, knowing that the closer I get, I need to dial-down Flash Exposure Compensation about one stop, by the time I reach ~MFD.

As for the Laowa, well, this is “action macro.” AI-Servo, if Canon, or AF-C, with Nikon. Active wildlife, but on a miniaturized scale. Many have wings, and will, like birds, fly away at any instant.




Jul 25, 2024 at 01:34 PM
bernardl
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p.21 #15 · Canon departure thoughts



molson wrote:
I don't "fanboy any brand" - I choose what tools work best for the application at hand. I happen to have had a Canon Canada CPS membership since 1999, but I'm also a Sony PRO Services member, Nikon Canada NPS member, and Panasonic Pro Services member. I don't belong to Fuji's pro service because it's too expensive for what it offers, and Fuji Canada automatically provides Pro service to GFX system owners anyway.

That means that unlike you and most of the other trolls here, I've actually owned and used the gear I'm talking about. I know that probably seems very
...Show more

Yet you declined to answer all the questions I asked you about your usage of these cameras, the reason for the continued usage of Sony as well as your selection of genre in bird photography (basically only static shots), the reason why you don’t use primes although you always seem to be using your zooms at their longest focal length, why you only posted images shot with Nikon equipment captured during a super short period (one month, only one image with the Z8) and still claim to know the system in and out?

These would help sustain your self positioning as an absolute expert on this topic.

Any reason for that?

Cheers,
Bernard


Edited on Jul 25, 2024 at 01:56 PM · View previous versions



Jul 25, 2024 at 01:49 PM
bernardl
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p.21 #16 · Canon departure thoughts


AmbientMike wrote:
The bullet going maybe 3000fps so slower than 1/3000, since the trail is more than a foot, imo. Easily possible on 20D

But the R5 and R3 have MASSIVELY better DR on Bill Claff, if he used A9III those cameras almost 2 stops better, in the broad daylight

He said 20fps on the BBC interview , within reach of either Canon camera


You apparently still haven’t understood that DR values for cameras applying NR on their raw files means absolutely nothing. It’s rather puzzling. Either DR is important to you (and it appears to be since you mention it all the time) and you need to do a bit of studying and possibly use equipment whose actual DR is known (most cameras except Canon and the a9III) or it’s not and then why not admit it? Why drink the marketing coolaid and make a fool of yourself by boasting about believing anything Canon wants you to believe?

Cheers;
Bernard


Edited on Jul 25, 2024 at 02:25 PM · View previous versions



Jul 25, 2024 at 01:53 PM
rscheffler
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p.21 #17 · Canon departure thoughts


tsunathanh wrote:
I do think there is a lot to envy in the Nikon PF lineup of lenses. They've made their compromises differently than Canon has. I would also love to own the 600 or the 800 6.3. I think I would be really happy with a Z8 and one of those. But this doesn't mean Canon has not been innovating. Virtually all of the RF lenses are better than their EF counterparts in some significant way. More reach, lighter, more compact, higher magnification, etc.


I agree 100% and I am also very excited about many of Canon's RF lenses and their direction of lens development. I love the 28-70/2 for many reasons. Also the 70-200s. I'm torn whether I prefer the f/2.8 or f/4 version. I ended up with the f/4 because I found a great deal on a used one and love how small and light it is, and it's sharper than my old EF version. The 24-105/2.8 is also excellent. The 100-300... Agreed about the compactness of the 100-500 while maintaining excellent optical performance. The 28/2.8 pancake, 16/2.8 despite the strong software distortion correction...

The slow zooms at first seemed discouraging because of previous experience with slow zooms over the decades, which often were not great wide open. But these all seem very capable wide open and the compromise of slower maximum aperture keeps size and weight reasonable compared to what would have been possible with the EF mount's f/5.6 AF limitation. As you mentioned, this combined with recent improvements in software noise reduction significantly broadens the use envelope for these lenses.

But it also depends on your applications and certain niches may not benefit equally. I think this is why we're seeing discontent about the perceived shortcomings of Canon's product line relative to the needs of birding and wildlife enthusiasts relative to other brands. And it seems like a really big deal here because of the birding/wildlife bias on these boards.



Jul 25, 2024 at 02:01 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.21 #18 · Canon departure thoughts


“Your mother wears army boots!”

“You smell funny!”

“You are stupid!”

“Mine is bigger than yours!”

“You don’t know what you are talking about!”

“I don’t like your website!”

;-)



Jul 25, 2024 at 02:02 PM
bernardl
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p.21 #19 · Canon departure thoughts


Canon does indeed have some uniquely interesting offerings for event and sport shooters. And indeed a 100/120-300mm f2.8 is a no brainer compared to a fixed 300mm f2.8 for those applications. The only lens I’d rather have is a 100-200mm f2.0 TC. But that doesn’t exist… yet.

The 70-200mm f4 debate is interesting especially when you compare it to a 70-180mm f2.8 offering about the same weight, one stop more light but 20mm shorter. It would be best to be able to choose either I guess.

On the standard end of the discussion, having done a bit of event shooting myself I personally find the Tamron 35-150mm f2-2.8 an even more flexible one stop solution but it’s a matter of personal taste I guess. I know quite a few wedding shooters that basically do 80% of their work with that one lens. It’s not amazing optically, I had shot some images with a 85mm f1.2 at f1.2 also during the same event and they were significantly sharper than the Tamron at f2,8… but that’s mostly irrelevant for such images.

I expect 24-70mm f2.0 lenses to become available in the coming months (better late than never) and I’ll be more tempted than by the 28-70mm f2.0 whose range I find a bit narrow. And hopefully they’ll have less objectionable bokeh balls. A personal thing also but I hate to have to apply blur to my backgrounds to remove grinding marks in bokeh balls. But it often isn’t an issue for events I am sure.

Edited on Jul 25, 2024 at 05:35 PM · View previous versions



Jul 25, 2024 at 02:23 PM
bernardl
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p.21 #20 · Canon departure thoughts



alundeb wrote:
Probably even lower, as we can't see the bullet, only the trail.


The photographer published the meta data but I can’t find it now.

I think that it was an a1 with a 24mm at f1.6, ISO100 if I am not mistaken shutter speed was quite high, I think 1/8,000s.

Cheers,
Bernard



Jul 25, 2024 at 02:49 PM
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