p.4 #2 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
you know the saying: "that was then and this is now". yet another tool for equally good and evil and that vast grey area in between. i know i say this a lot but w/o critical thinking on the part of the user "control" is so easy.
p.4 #3 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Gary Irwin wrote:
I can't see Nikon trying to compete with Sony in the video market. Fortunately all it really has to do is provide "competent" video hybrid cameras. The Z6 & Z7 were a good first attempt...a few more performance improvements and both will be solid tools for most hybrid shooters like myself.
Well, Sony and Canon both see the blending of video and stills as the future of imaging. Both have said this is their focus going forward. Many of the features we now use in still imaging like Eye AF, tracking, high speed sensors, and logic layers on the imaging chip, had their origins in video.
As long as Nikon depends on Sony for its sensor technology it will never again be the innovator or leader it once was. Nikon will continue to devolve into a third place imaging company unless they find a way to change this. Optics are not the way to lead in the future. The future is sensor, software, AI, computation, communication, and integration based. Nikon is unfortunately not well positioned in some of these areas.
My view is that acquiring Nikon for Sony is a quick way to gain market share. Acquiring Nikon's user base has as much or possibly more value than getting Nikon's technology for a company like Sony. Selling camera hardware is one thing, but that is a difficult way to make money over the long term. Sony has a history of turning hardware into a software and service subscription model. I can see this happening with cameras in the future. If this can be done, Sony is the company that will likely attempt to do it.
p.4 #4 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
mawz wrote:
He talks about his plans in the video where he ships off his Nikon gear, says outright he’s planning on buying into Z mount once the new bodies arrive unless there’s a showstopper on the new bodies.
Thank-you... Greatly appreciated!
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I had only 'skimmed' the video previously, but will now take the time to peruse it more fully.
p.4 #5 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
"Angry" is reading this and laughing loud...
This thread certainly improved his view rating, if you pay attention to recent stats...
That's the only value of this thread, IMO!
p.4 #6 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
As long as Nikon depends on Sony for its sensor technology it will never again be the innovator or leader it once was.
so who should they rely on?
they do develop their own designs and have demonstrated that though the use Sony semiconductor as the foundry and yes some of their technology which is offered by sony themselves to all as it is a product that sony markets, they usually exceed what sony camera division produces and puts in their own product. no matter how you want to try to spin it, and spinning it you are doing. they are different. just because it's based on a base formulation the end product turns out to be quite different. i'll bet there are few other component makers bits and pieces. tis the nature of the beast. and we've gone through this before. some things get so tiresome.
p.4 #7 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
sjms wrote:
so who should they rely on?
they do develop their own designs and have demonstrated that though the use Sony semiconductor as the foundry and yes some of their technology which is offered by sony themselves to all as it is a product that sony markets, they usually exceed what sony camera division produces and puts in their own product. no matter how you want to try to spin it, and spinning it you are doing. they are different. just because it's based on a base formulation the end product turns out to be quite different. i'll bet there are few other component makers bits and pieces. tis the nature of the beast. and we've gone through this before. some things get so tiresome....Show more →
They should rely on themselves.
Talk about spin, you tell the same old D850 ISO 64 sensor tweeking stuff again. You are right, it does get tiresome. The D850 was a benchmark setting camera when it was released. It was, and is the best DSLR ever made in many peoples opinion. But the industry has moved beyond it in so many ways. Resolution, speed, focusing, AI, Video, Silent Shooting, and other significant features. But Nikon has not.
There is even a petition now about getting the D850 updated:
Keep in mind, the Z6 you so often post about, and is Nikon's best selling mirrorless camera is a straight use of an off the shelf Sony sensor. No dispute there. Canon recently flexed its muscle by developing a new sensor chip that is creating a stir in the industry and represents true innovation and advancement for Canon. This because they are in charge of their own sensors, and destiny. Nikon is said to be going to use the exact same sensors in the new Z6s/Z7s releases. It is imperative that Nikon find a way to innovate again.
p.4 #8 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
1bwana1 wrote:
Well, Sony and Canon both see the blending of video and stills as the future of imaging. Both have said this is their focus going forward.
Many of the features we now use in still imaging like Eye AF, tracking, high speed sensors, and logic layers on the imaging chip, had their origins in video...
+1.
sjms wrote:
so who should they rely on? ...
"For Better or Worse"...
At this point in time, they only have themselves to rely on.
And that just might be a big part of the problem going forward...
p.4 #9 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
actually you are correct. they come up with the formula using the tools at hand from the actually manufacturer (sony semiconductor) and their engineers with their "imagineering" and you have the sensor that has a sony semiconducter name on its back and nikons IP in it.
they are not going to build a foundry for the sort of output they need. they do make the the litho systems for said manufacturing. gee, i wonder who sony gets their litho equipment from? (just a question)
p.4 #10 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
sjms wrote:
... they do make the the litho systems for said manufacturing. gee, i wonder who sony gets their litho equipment from? (just a question)
Personally, I have absolutely no idea where Sony gets their Lithography Equipment from.
Are you saying that they get it from Nikon? URL Link?
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It should be noted of course... That Nikon is definitely no longer the World Leader in this regard:
p.4 #11 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Keep in mind, the Z6 you so often post about, and is Nikon's best selling mirrorless camera is a straight use of an off the shelf Sony sensor.
lets take part 1 of this statement: i post images from the Z6 because i shoot with it as of late. i also show images from my D500 D850 D7200 and my Sony RX100. i'm not big on talk about it. beyond that i just reviewed a few hundred of my posts i think you need to define "so often" because its sorta lacking in accuracy .
part 2: we have also discussed the concept of "off the shelf" too again you lack accuracy.
p.4 #12 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
Personally, I have absolutely no idea where Sony gets their Lithography Equipment from.
Are you saying that they get it from Nikon? URL Link?
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It should be noted of course... That Nikon is definitely no longer the World Leader in this regard:
being the world leader has little to do with delivering the item needed by the buyer. you speak in generalities. this is the biggest general truth in the world of technology: this weeks bright and shiny can and will be usurped in a new york minute. it the nature of the technology beast.
p.4 #14 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
by the way all you Economist fire breathers, this reference to nikon and its other unrelated division was just a pie in the sky fun inquiry. not to be taken seriously.
lukemeup: nice follow up
but you forgot to throw Zeiss in there too
p.4 #15 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
1bwana1 wrote:
You state that as fact. I, many people I know, and some of the most respected reviewers, find the ergonomics of the latest Sony bodies to be as good as any other brand. Many also argue that the configurability of the Sony gives it advantage here. This is no longer the distinguisher that it once was.
I am not reading anywhere large numbers of reports of Sony bodies or lenses failing. This is also not an issue.
Some of Sony's lenses are rated best in class performance wise. I am finding Sony optics to be as good or in many cases better than the F mount lenses I had from Nikon. Sony may be able to benefit from gaining Nikon's optic manufacturing facilities. But that is not clear. Having others do the actual manufacturing may in fact be more cost effective for Sony.
Sony has its own design ethos, and doesn't need to buy that kind of technology. It is a choice they make, not a lack of capability. Sony is first and foremost a profit generating financial company. That is their main focus.
It is a huge leap without evidence to draw such a conclusion. My guess is that they saw a profit opportunity. Nothing more.
In the financial World it is not up to Nikon whether it wants to be sold. In the end, it will be up to a vote of shareholders and regulators should an unsolicited offer to buy the outstanding shares be made. The best defense against this for Nikon is that currently it has no profitable business divisions. That makes it less attractive as a financial proposition. That is also Nikon's biggest problem as an independent business in the long run.
when sony lenses can last a decade or more then we can discussed about design ethos and whatever elses. likewise with the camera bodies after they have been field proven. the 3rd and 4th gen bodies haven't been around long enough to confirm robustness. sony is learning camera design on every new iteration.
and i don't think selling adapters will contribute much to the bottom line if anything, it's an attempt to convert existing a-mount users to mirrorless.
if the shareholders are unhappy, i'm sure the public will be the last to know.
Thank-you, for bringing that Article to our attention. Greatly appreciated!
Most definitely, it will be interesting to see... How this all plays out for the concerned parties:
"... According to market analysts, ASML is currently the market leader in this segment and as such Nikon is seen as profiting from the settlement and comparatively low one-off payment..."
p.4 #17 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
The claim made in the video is Nikon is in much worse financial condition than is generally known. As a public company Nikon's financial information is a matter of public record. The only way I can see Nikon's financial condition being much worse than is generally known is if their current quarter is much worse than projected or if there's undisclosed event that has occurred within Nikon that materially affects its financial position.
If you listen to the video, the opinion relayed to this YouTuber about Nikon's financial position appears to be based on actions Nikon is taking that seem more drastic than what Nikon's financial position would warrant. For example the rumor about Nikon folding NPS. NIkon has always been very aggressive about cost-cutting during periods of declining revenue. Any actions Nikon is taking now would likely be consistent with that policy.
p.4 #18 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
sjms wrote:
being the world leader has little to do with delivering the item needed by the buyer. you speak in generalities. this is the biggest general truth in the world of technology: this weeks bright and shiny can and will be usurped in a new york minute. it the nature of the technology beast.
sjms wrote:
... they do make the the litho systems for said manufacturing. gee, i wonder who sony gets their litho equipment from? (just a question)
One cannot help but notice that you still have not answered the question. Gee, why is that?
Therefore, just in case you missed it the first time... I will state it once again:
Are you saying that Sony gets their Litho Systems (*Your words not mine) from Nikon?
Do you have a URL Link to support your statement?
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Therefore, it you want Forum Members to take you seriously...
You really need to back up your statements -- Instead of 'merely' rambling on in generalities about nothing...
p.4 #19 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
tntcorp wrote:
sony has the sensor, but their camera bodies are not ergonomics and reliability is still a big question mark. likewise with the reliability of their lenses.
p.4 #20 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
1bwana1 wrote:
My view is that acquiring Nikon for Sony is a quick way to gain market share. Acquiring Nikon's user base has as much or possibly more value than getting Nikon's technology for a company like Sony. Selling camera hardware is one thing, but that is a difficult way to make money over the long term. Sony has a history of turning hardware into a software and service subscription model. I can see this happening with cameras in the future. If this can be done, Sony is the company that will likely attempt to do it.
Sony will never acquire Nikon. Sony has already surpassed Nikon's market share with none of Nikon's assistance. What would Sony do with Nikon's f-mount legacy products and new Z-mount? They have no place in Sony's product lineup. And it's Nikon's engineers that could take a lesson from Sony, not the other way-round.
