p.12 #4 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Lance B wrote:
The more gear you have seems to be those that are least concerned that is why they keep buying more Nikon gear. I am still buying plenty...
p.12 #6 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
mawz wrote:
(for example, given relative card failure rates, single XQD is actually more reliable than dual SD)
Thats a completely absurd claim and would require absolutely riddiculous amounts of difference in reliability. Everybody knows SDs are already quite reliable. And everybody knows in the end one thing is reliable about memory cards, no matter what type - in the end they will fail, you cannot rewrite any of them indefinitely.
p.12 #7 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Sauseschritt wrote:
Thats a completely absurd claim and would require absolutely riddiculous amounts of difference in reliability. Everybody knows SDs are already quite reliable. And everybody knows in the end one thing is reliable about memory cards, no matter what type - in the end they will fail, you cannot rewrite any of them indefinitely.
It’s not absurd in the least if you know anything about failure rates on cheap flash.
It is however predicated on the fairly massive level of counterfeiting in the SD market and the high rate of failure with cheap and counterfeit cards. The counterfeit cards are the main issue, it’s very easy to get them via otherwise trustworthy sources. Even B&H is known to have received at least one batch of fake Sandisk SD cards via a distributor who didn’t pay close attention to their sources
p.12 #10 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Sauseschritt wrote:
Hu ?
And what exactly protects XQD cards from being fake, sooner or later, too ?
Lack of market. XQD/CFe sales volumes are a rounding error compared to SD. Not worth the time & effort to fake, especially XQD which is already starting to exit the market and never had more than a handful of compatible devices
CFe will probably get faked at some point if it ever gets popular outside high-end video & stills
p.12 #11 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Thanks for relevant details, so I've replied to you but otherwise ignoring what is yet another echochamber dribbled out by repeating brand-bashers. These are best blocked, thanks to the Hide button.
I did not elaborate on Nikon's abysmal marketing above, as much has been said in a couple of posts end of last month. One might say CoV19 is some excuse for recent lapsed product launches, but there is zero excuse for no coordinated internet launch. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1653439/6#15331961
I also agree fully that XQD sets an utterly different quality for reliability of flash memory. SD is a major negative of the D780, with which I always shoot on duplicate cards. conversely, never 1 problem with XQD in 4+ years, and only shooting a single card. And yet to read about an authentic failure.
Settling on XQD is yet another example of the professionalism of Nikon engineering, and again where the company fails to communicate to its clients. They must surely have stress-tested XQD - brutally; so why not share some key statistics? Thus ammo for lies spread in the digital insalubrity.
mawz wrote:
I agree in terms of Nikon engineering, they've continued to do great work. I disagree massively in the case of Nikon marketing.
Nikon engineering keeps delivering excellent designs, when there's gaps it's clearly in the initial product spec (which usually would come from marketing). That's where things like no grips & single card slots come from. And even then it's usually perceptual items rather than things that really impact most users (for example, given relative card failure rates, single XQD is actually more reliable than dual SD)
Nikon marketing keeps failing spectacularly. The Z5 launch is the poster child for this. They sent out a press release. They didn't even manage to send it to everyone on their normal distribution. A couple big stores got samples, but no Ambassadors or reviewers did until around a month after announcement. This for a relatively lower-end release that was sandwiched between two major high-end releases (Canon's R5/R6 and Sony's A7SIII). They didn't even manage to get the trade-in promo info out until a week later. Suprise, surprise, there's widespread reports that the Z5 pre-orders were low. Of couse they were, barely anybody knew about it and there was zero buzz. And this for a camera that should be setting sales on fire notionally. It's by far the best FF body for the dollar on the market right now.
Contrast this with either of the competing releases, or better yet the S5 announcement last week. That's an overpriced, underwhelming stills camera (it's a much better value as a video camera though) and yet everybody was talking about it. There were dozens of videos up the moment it was announced showing Lumix ambassadors and major influencers using it. And yet as a stills camera is $600 more than the Z5 for mostly lower specs.
p.12 #12 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
i too started with XQD Day 1 in 2012. 3 cards gen 1. heavily used for the 1.5 years i used the camera. all 3 cards went out with the camera when sold. the 2nd gen cards started to show up as did my D4s in 2014. considerable more refined and considerably faster and i ended up with 9 cards of various volumes. i have those cards to this day for use in all but one camera.
p.12 #13 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
TimMunsey wrote:
Dear Fred Miranda please kill this thread.
Nobody forces you to read threads you dont like.
mawz wrote:
Lack of market.
Thats surprising, considering theres supposed mass market cameras out there, like the Z6, which only allow this kind of card.
Either way if everybody acts on this logic, this "advantage" will be gone. So you'll excuse if I still much rather want two SD card slots than one XQD card slot.
As a programmer, security by obscurity isnt something I believe in.
chambeshi wrote:
I also agree fully that XQD sets an utterly different quality for reliability of flash memory. SD is a major negative of the D780, with which I always shoot on duplicate cards. conversely, never 1 problem with XQD in 4+ years, and only shooting a single card. And yet to read about an authentic failure.
Your success rate with cards doesnt mean much in the big picture. Shooting with one card means you have to be okay with the situation that the photos might be lost before you can back them up in a computer. That might be tolerable to some type of photographers, sure, but not to anyone who has to deliver and cannot repeat the shoot.
Rule of thumb, if you are using a backup camera, you probably want to use a second card slot, too.
p.12 #14 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
i have 2 other bodies with a second slot. they remain empty. and yes i do have to deliver the work or there is no reason for me to be there. then of course i can't afford to get the next brand new bright and shiny out there. failure to deliver doesn't work out in my favor it seems.
p.12 #15 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Sauseschritt wrote:
Thats surprising, considering theres supposed mass market cameras out there, like the Z6, which only allow this kind of card.
Either way if everybody acts on this logic, this "advantage" will be gone. So you'll excuse if I still much rather want two SD card slots than one XQD card slot.
As a programmer, security by obscurity isnt something I believe in.
You are aware that cameras are a tiny fraction of the market for removable flash storage, right? SD cards and the mostly-compatible and even more popular MicroSD cards are ubiquitous, in everything from network routers to desktop CNC routers (and yes, I have both of those around, with SD card slots), phones to Rasberry Pi's.
There are billions of devices (not hyperbole) out there which use SD cards of one variety or another, and a tiny fraction of them are what we would consider cameras (ie ILC or P&S cameras).
XQD on the other hand is supported in ~7 or so Nikon models, a few Panasonic cameras plus a similar amount of Sony videocameras and that's it. For the longest time there were exactly 2 models of XQD cards, both from Sony, and 1-2 readers. CFe today has a similar level of support, but likely will grow as it includes Canon gear as well and if they're very lucky might leak into some of the other areas which used to use CF cards (which always were primarily used in the embedded market, cameras were always a sideline for CompactFlash). CFe and XQD were worth it for the big card makers because of the margins on it, but aren't really worth counterfeiting because of the small volume & limited retail channels for them.
p.12 #16 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
TimMunsey wrote:
Dear Fred Miranda please kill this thread.
but Tim at least we're talking about camera stuff now vs camera business and economics. but your righ, it should have died awhile back
ok, everyone cease to write to this thread and let it die. we all know though it will just pop back up regretfully by one of the usual suspects that can't seem to discuss anything else.
p.12 #17 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Asking for a thread to be closed so you don't have to read it, sounds like an alcoholic asking that all bars be closed so they don't go in and get drunk.
No one but themselves is making them open the bar door go in and buy a drink.
No one but themselves is making them open, read, and even post, to a thread that has a subject they don't like.
Addiction, and weak self control is a terrible problem to have. Easy to blame others who can have a nice glass of wine, or discuss subjects without the baggage.
We don't need to censor and close threads. But a forum 12 step program may help some deal with their issues.....
p.12 #18 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
sjms wrote:
ok, everyone cease to write to this thread and let it die. we all know though it will just pop back up regretfully by one of the usual suspects that can't seem to discuss anything else.
p.12 #19 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
sjms wrote:
ok, everyone cease to write to this thread and let it die. we all know though it will just pop back up regretfully by one of the usual suspects that can't seem to discuss anything else.
I was just wondering how many Nikon shooters will move to Canon and how many will move to Sony?
p.12 #20 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
If you keep bumping this thread because you like bugging others or watching people fight... please find a new hobby/website. This type of thread is why I left DPReview years ago.
Let.
This.
Thread.
Die.
If anyone can find the "archive" button please hit it! Good grief.
