p.3 #1 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
Did you Cut and Paste that dribble from Wikepedia all by yourself?
I am very sorry too hear, that you are so susceptible to 'Brainwashing' (*Your words not mine).
Which 70-200mm f/2.8 Lens @ the price point of the Tamron SP 70-200mm f/2.8 Di VC USD G2 Lens --
Do you think is superior? What is your 'Recommendation' at this price?
Like Ken is always saying... "Compared To What?"
I would have easily recommended to pony up the extra and encouraged others to get the 70-200FL instead. This is the kind of lens where I'd advocate the one-once-buy-nice policy.
I learnt from my lesson and tuned him out. If you find yourself defending him with logical fallacies than maybe it's time to ask yourself why is that so. He's already gotten into your head man.
p.3 #2 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
unchecked wrote:
I would have easily recommended to pony up the extra and encouraged others to get the 70-200FL instead.
This is the kind of lens where I'd advocate the one-once-buy-nice policy...
p.3 #3 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
1bwana1 wrote:
Yep, no proof or validation at this point.
The issue isn't about whether he is correct or not as *nobody* knows as there is no real proof. The issue is that this serves nobody but Ken Wheeler and his desire to be recognized and get traffic for his site. He may very well be correct, but then I could also say that this was going to happen and also be correct but there may also be many who also predict similar outcomes, you have enough predictions one is bound to come true and then you look like the "guru". Predicting gloom is always gets attention and if it is wrong nobody really takes you to task as they are all too busy celebrating the gloom didn't happen. When you eventually get one right, you are seen as a guru. It's quite amusing. The problem with these dangerous predictions is that it can very easily end up being a self fulfilling prophecy. Then wonders what is behind it other than his own self gratification and site hits.
p.3 #4 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Slightly off topic, but as good as the Nikon 70-200 FL is I've been absolutely thrilled with the Sigma 70-200 Sport, and considering the Nikon would have cost me 50% more this has been the difference between having a 70-200 and not having a 70-200. Maybe not quite as sharp (though it is superb) and probably not as quick with AF, but it's a stellar lens. From what I've heard the Tamron G2 is right up there as well - all the modern 70-200 lenses seem pretty fantastic.
Sigma 70-200 Sport on Nikon D7100, 200mm, f2.8, 1/640, ISO 400
In any event, this particular YouTuber definitely focuses on his own perspective, and while his advice may be fantastic if you share the same mindset and photography goals as him it tends to not suit everyone. Doesn't work for me personally, and a bit more dramatic than I care for.
With that said, Nikon's certainly in a tougher spot than Sony and Canon. Canon actually seems to be coming out with very high quality sensors now, they have a really impressive selection of lenses, and they're hitting all the price points with extremely competitive products in both mirrorless and DSLR - the only cameras they can't quite match are the D500 and D850 right now, in my opinion. But between the 5DIV and the R5, perhaps they don't need to quite match the D850. And Sony's constantly bringing out improvements and their lens selection is growing too. I don't recall Nikon ever facing this much competition, and worse still it's in a shrinking market and we're being hit with a global pandemic.
However, short term I'm not too concerned. The Z6 in particular is quite capable, and I think the Z6s and Z7s should be pretty solid if Nikon can improve AF-C, put in dual card slots, and improve ergonomics (even just with the battery grip, though personally I'd love a huge body - perhaps the Z8 or Z9). The D850 successor will also likely be at least as good as Canon's next 5D, and so far there's really no pressure to update the D500. So Nikon does have a decent position in the enthusiast/professional market, and there's likely still enough of a market there to keep things going. Maybe things will be different in 10 years, but for now Nikon seems to be in an okay place despite the competition.
p.3 #5 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Reminds me of certain president's twitter account. Lots of lies, unproven rumors and stirring shit in a desperate bid to be relevant. Sad times as there's plenty of this all over social media.
p.3 #6 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
Interesting...
--
I wasn't aware of the fact... That he was planning on going with Nikon Z Series Mirrorless.
Did you read this somewhere or was it in one of his latest YouTube Videos?
He talks about his plans in the video where he ships off his Nikon gear, says outright he’s planning on buying into Z mount once the new bodies arrive unless there’s a showstopper on the new bodies.
p.3 #8 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
lukemeup wrote:
Reminds me of certain president's twitter account. Lots of lies, unproven rumors and stirring shit in a desperate bid to be relevant. Sad times as there's plenty of this all over social media.
i always thought that what social media was to begin with.
p.3 #9 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
The brownlash against the Enlightenment is the paradox of modern times. It ranges from the pseudoscience of postmodernism to all manner of conspiracy theories and worse eg flat-earthism and other mental warpings of the "nature" of physical reality, whether biotic evolution or magnetism.
“Show me a cultural relativist [aka postmodernist] at 30,000 feet and I'll show you a hypocrite ... If you are flying to an international congress of anthropologists or literary critics, the reason you will probably get there - the reason you don't plummet into a ploughed field - is that a lot of Western scientifically trained engineers have got their sums right” Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
Unfortunately, photography has not escaped the charlatans peddling distorted information, myths and outright lies. The internet has hugely expanded the prominence of such elements, attracted to expansion of digital photography by the burgeoning flood of digital images. It is coupled with websites ranging from the credible to the shallow "reposters" to the utter rubbish. Any snakeoil salesman can distort the facts and worse, and peddle nonsense via the www.
p.3 #10 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
chambeshi wrote:
The brownlash against the Enlightenment is the paradox of modern times. It ranges from the pseudoscience of postmodernism to all manner of conspiracy theories and worse eg flat-earthism and other mental warpings of the "nature" of physical reality, whether biotic evolution or magnetism.
“Show me a cultural relativist [aka postmodernist] at 30,000 feet and I'll show you a hypocrite ... If you are flying to an international congress of anthropologists or literary critics, the reason you will probably get there - the reason you don't plummet into a ploughed field - is that a lot of Western scientifically trained engineers have got their sum right.” ? Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
Unfortunately, photography has not escaped the charlatans peddling distorted information, myths and outright lies. The internet has hugely expanded the prominence of such elements, attracted to expansion of digital photography by the burgeoning flood of digital images. It is coupled with websites ranging from the credible to the shallow "reposters" to the utter rubbish. Any snakeoil salesman can distort the facts and worse, and peddle nonsense via the www. ...Show more →
As with no lack of other cults and antiscience nonsenses - the USA is plagued with youtube channels feeding off the growing interest in different products/ideas etc. Interest dovetails with GAS and materialism; thus in photography as the ILC industry has grown over the past 2 decades. Equally, influencers strive to fuel doom, gloom - even panic - as sales have dropped, and companies drop production. Very few if any, of these posterers are of any use at all to understand reality. They are merely a waste of bandwidth.
The only logical explanation for these efforts by youtubers is insecurity and inadequacy: equally greed. Too often, they are coupled with criminal ambitions to earn illicit gained wealth. All merge into infantile - hence shameless - efforts at attention seeking. All the better if they can rely on such Influencers of dubious repute can build a returning flock of sycophants, who click mindlessly on their latest broadcast. Social media provides rich hunting grounds to recruit a gullible flock of zombie followers. Any content goes that grows the audience.
In Japan, the engineers and managers who produce photographic gear value old world manners and facts very highly. Together with committed photographers, they are very unlikely to treat such rubbish with any seriousness whatsoever https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62680949
Those of us who invest in expensive photography very largely agree on which reviewers can be trusted across the Internet. [edit: Equally, as far as they can predict, one rates industry commentators such as Thom Hogan and Nasim Mansurov with due caution pertaining to any attempt at forecasts. Thus sites such as Nikon Rumors are obvious for what they are ] Those spreading links to the contrary generate clutter and worse. Generally (unlike dpr) fredmiranda is spared attention-seeking threads propagating rubbish.
p.3 #14 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
I normally refrain from participating in these useless threads but there's absolutely nothing new in the video we didn't already know or that shouldn't be patently obvious: The camera market his shrinking and Nikon is bleeding cash. Old news. Continuing restructuring expected: Check. Sale of graphics division always possible but unlikely: Check. Unlike American companies, it's rare for Japanese co's to go bankrupt so the Nikon brand will continue one way or other, hopefully as a leaner, more nimble and CUSTOMER CENTRIC company with a lot fewer deadwood managers. Could be the best thing that ever happened for its customers.
p.3 #15 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
1bwana1 wrote:
Yes, buying Nikon would be the quickest path to the #1 position in the camera market to match their #1 position in imaging sensors. Sony has repeatedly stated this as their goal.
Sony could certainly benefit from acquiring the optical component of Nikon. The camera division is a bit behind technology wise compared to what Sony already has in house.
The real question is whether the goal of being #1 is still of primary importance to Sony. Being #1 in the rapidly deteriorating camera market may not make financial sense anymore.
Another consideration is what would Sony be will to pay to own Nikon's poorly performing camera business. For a company with pockets as deep as Sony, it is now very close to being possible to get Nikon's camera business for free, or even get paid to acquire it. The last time I enquired about the book value of Nikon the consensus I got from multiple investment banking firms was about $14 per share. Book value is the amount per share that the company could be liquidated for. With Nikon share price in the $7 range, theoretically Sony could make an offer to buy and get the camera division for free. I think $7 is still not low enough to make such a move irresistible. I would think that number needs to be in the $5 range. But is is within striking distance.
Of course such a move would require a battle for shareholder support, and government permission. This is an expensive proposition at best. A straight purchase is the path of least resistance if in fact the camera division is in play.
sony has the sensor, but their camera bodies are not ergonomics and reliability is still a big question mark. likewise with the reliability of their lenses.
leveraging nikon's broad knowledge with camera and optical design is the best way to compete against canon and make further gain into this shrinking market.
the release of the latest adapter for a-mount lenses is an possible indication that you cannot master optical design overnight.
but i'm doubtful nikon will sell anything at this time. nikon and canon have gone through tough times in the past, so they know how to survive this market contraction.
p.3 #16 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
unchecked wrote:
No, but they have been making the products the market want and the market's trend of tilting towards video means buying Nikon adds no value to Sony. The conditions are for right Sony and Sony has the momentum to catch Canon on their own.
the last i checked, the z6's video capability cannot be dismissed. and nikon has a broad portfolio of patents.
i'm sure sony has many lessons-learned when it lost market share to samsung in consumer electronics; specifically tv and cell phones. i'm doubtful sony execs are as dismissive of nikon's value as you.
p.3 #17 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
tntcorp wrote:
the last i checked, the z6's video capability cannot be dismissed. and nikon has a broad portfolio of patents.
i'm sure sony has many lessons-learned when it lost market share to samsung in consumer electronics; specifically tv and cell phones. i'm doubtful sony execs are as dismissive of nikon's value as you.
Sony, a video mainstay and powerhouse for the longest time, can already do better by themselves. Fact is, Nikon's DNA is in photography, not video. The Z6 is fine, but it's still outmatched by the a7iii, especially for video. The a6300 is also immensely popular as a video camera. The Z50? Not so much. Nobody buys Nikon for it's video capabilities, be it bodies or lenses. If people did, they would have fared better like Canon and Sony. Nikon's also just starting to build their video-friendly Z line up, there's not a lot to offer. Our F-mount lenses and designs are terrible for video.
Do I expect to see Nikon offer internal 10-bit, N-log and/or 4k60 in the upcoming new bodies? Not at all. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they managed to do even one of those things.
p.3 #18 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
tntcorp wrote:
sony has the sensor, but their camera bodies are not ergonomics and reliability is still a big question mark. likewise with the reliability of their lens.
leveraging nikon's broad knowledge with camera and optical design is the best way to compete against canon and make further gain into this shrinking market.
You state that as fact. I, many people I know, and some of the most respected reviewers, find the ergonomics of the latest Sony bodies to be as good as any other brand. Many also argue that the configurability of the Sony gives it advantage here. This is no longer the distinguisher that it once was.
I am not reading anywhere large numbers of reports of Sony bodies or lenses failing. This is also not an issue.
Some of Sony's lenses are rated best in class performance wise. I am finding Sony optics to be as good or in many cases better than the F mount lenses I had from Nikon. Sony may be able to benefit from gaining Nikon's optic manufacturing facilities. But that is not clear. Having others do the actual manufacturing may in fact be more cost effective for Sony.
Sony has its own design ethos, and doesn't need to buy that kind of technology. It is a choice they make, not a lack of capability. Sony is first and foremost a profit generating financial company. That is their main focus.
tntcorp wrote:
the release of the latest adapter for a-mount lenses is an possible indication that you cannot master optical design overnight.
It is a huge leap without evidence to draw such a conclusion. My guess is that they saw a profit opportunity. Nothing more.
tntcorp wrote:
but i'm doubtful nikon will sell anything at this time. nikon and canon have gone through tough times in the past, so they know how to survive this market contraction.
In the financial World it is not up to Nikon whether it wants to be sold. In the end, it will be up to a vote of shareholders and regulators should an unsolicited offer to buy the outstanding shares be made. The best defense against this for Nikon is that currently it has no profitable business divisions. That makes it less attractive as a financial proposition. That is also Nikon's biggest problem as an independent business in the long run.
p.3 #19 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
unchecked wrote:
Sony, a video mainstay and powerhouse for the longest time, can already do better by themselves. Fact is, Nikon's DNA is in photography, not video. The Z6 is fine, but it's still outmatched by the a7iii, especially for video. The a6300 is also immensely popular as a video camera. The Z50? Not so much. Nobody buys Nikon for it's video capabilities, be it bodies or lenses. If people did, they would have fared better like Canon and Sony. Nikon's also just starting to build their video-friendly Z line up, there's not a lot to offer. Our F-mount lenses and designs are terrible for video. ...Show more →
I can't see Nikon trying to compete with Sony in the video market. Fortunately all it really has to do is provide "competent" video hybrid cameras. The Z6 & Z7 were a good first attempt...a few more performance improvements and both will be solid tools for most hybrid shooters like myself.
p.3 #20 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
chambeshi wrote:
Those of us who invest in expensive photography very largely agree on which reviewers can be trusted across the Internet. [edit: Equally, as far as they can predict, one rates industry commentators such as Thom Hogan and Nasim Mansurov with due caution pertaining to any attempt at forecasts.
In this case Wheeler is not making a prediction or a forecast. He is stating an issue of fact. It is either true, or it is not.
The "insiders" Wheeler claims to have access to either exist or they don't.
These "insiders" that said Nikon was shopping it's camera division are either lying or telling the truth.
Wheeler either made up the whole thing, or is accurately reporting the source and the content of the information he shared.
It is a lie, or it is the truth. Unlike a forecast or a prediction there is no room for equivocation here. We have no way of knowing which is the case.
It is also possible that even if it is the truth, nothing comes of it.
] Those spreading links to the contrary generate clutter and worse. Generally (unlike dpr) fredmiranda is spared attention-seeking threads propagating rubbish. 