p.5 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Who here has even come close to implying the A7cr is a camera for professional photography? Not a single post. This camera is targeted at the hobbyist market which eclipses the professional market by many magnitudes in size. So let’s not go down the rabbit hole discussing why professionals cannot use the A7cr and stick to the photographer these cameras are intended for.
It’s like going onto an auto form and noting all the reasons why a Toyota Corolla won’t work for hauling a couple yards of gravel.
p.5 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
nepali wrote:
Q2/Q3 are slightly taller so maybe this allows more room for better tech?
124mm vs 130mm (W) and 71mm vs 80mm (H) so I think you're right about the EVF not fitting into the A7CR.
Perhaps they could have gone with 3.6M dot. Perhaps not. I still think neither screen nor EVF are great but I guess we have to consider the challenges the designers faced when the marketing team tell them the specs it must have.
p.5 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
I don’t know about a Swiss Army knife. More like a spork 😂 Still does the job, smaller, lighter but had to compromise on some features. As my only camera it’s definitely a pass FOR ME but as backup to a backup? Maybe.
p.5 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chez wrote:
Well if you include everything that is in the A7r5, then you are in the $4000 range from a market segmentation view which puts it even further out of reach of many people.
If your buying a 3000 dollar camera and you can't afford a 4000 dollar camera than odds are pretty good you shouldn't be buying a 3000 dollar camera. But that is here nor there because as we can clearly see you can pick up an A7CR for as little as 2400 already. Which even with Sony holding back features for the CRii is still a great buy in my opinion. Assuming your looking for a compact body. Nothing really out there to compare too. And no I don't even consider Sigma's offering a competitor.
p.5 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Jbantillo wrote:
I don’t know about a Swiss Army knife. More like a spork 😂 Still does the job, smaller, lighter but had to compromise on some features. As my only camera it’s definitely a pass FOR ME but as backup to a backup? Maybe.
So far (short sample size). It has been able do to everything that I use my RV for. User preference compromises, yes. But It has been able to shrink/lighten my daily carry which my RV can't do. It also is more comfortable with the grip extension than my RV using larger glass (which didn't see that coming). Yeah it's new to me but I can tell already I will reach for it more often than my RV moving forward. Even with it's compromises. So I'll stick with the Swiss Army knife analogy for myself.
p.5 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
nhsonyshooter wrote:
If your buying a 3000 dollar camera and you can't afford a 4000 dollar camera than odds are pretty good you shouldn't be buying a 3000 dollar camera. But that is here nor there because as we can clearly see you can pick up an A7CR for as little as 2400 already. Which even with Sony holding back features for the CRii is still a great buy in my opinion. Assuming your looking for a compact body. Nothing really out there to compare too. And no I don't even consider Sigma's offering a competitor.
We can play this game right up to the $6500 A1. Consumers definitely have a price limit and both you nor I really know as much as Sony about these limits.
p.5 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chez wrote:
Who here has even come close to implying the A7cr is a camera for professional photography? Not a single post. This camera is targeted at the hobbyist market which eclipses the professional market by many magnitudes in size. So let’s not go down the rabbit hole discussing why professionals cannot use the A7cr and stick to the photographer these cameras are intended for.
It’s like going onto an auto form and noting all the reasons why a Toyota Corolla won’t work for hauling a couple yards of gravel.
I agree that A7CR might not be a camera of interest to the pros. But then, what are, exactly, the cameras used by the pros, all A1 and A7RV? Do we have the statistics? Furthermore, what cameras are in high demand at the hobbyist market? It would not surprise me if the hobbyists are the main consumers, by numbers, of the high-end cameras. The problem with the A7CR is that it might be in the "grey area", not answering the needs of the pros, but priced too high to be a convincing sell as a new toy for the hobbyist who, when has the money, also has other and perhaps more interesting ways to spend the money. Those hobbyists who have the money are probably already in possession of high-end cameras and might be more interested in extending their kits by adding yet another lens that has a special rendering.
p.5 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
ruthenium wrote:
I agree that A7CR might not be a camera of interest to the pros. But then, what are, exactly, the cameras used by the pros, all A1 and A7RV? Do we have the statistics? Furthermore, what cameras are in high demand at the hobbyist market? It would not surprise me if the hobbyists are the main consumers, by numbers, of the high-end cameras. The problem with the A7CR is that it might be in the "grey area", not answering the needs of the pros, but priced too high to be a convincing sell as a new toy for the hobbyist who, when has the money, also has other and perhaps more interesting ways to spend the money. Those hobbyists who have the money are probably already in possession of high-end cameras and might be more interested in extending their kits by adding yet another lens that has a special rendering. ...Show more →
The huge draw of the A7cr is its size that brings along a great sensor and great AF. If one doesn’t place size / weight high on their priority, then the A7cr is not for them. Given the interest in compact lenses, I would think there might also be an interest in compact cameras to go with the compact lens.
Sony saw an unmet niche in the market and has created a line of cameras that fit into that niche.
p.5 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Juha Kannisto wrote:
In Japan A7CII has been selling very well and A7CR not as well due to pricing, as A7CII seems to have been priced strategically for Japan market and is slightly cheaper here than Nikon Zf, and about the same price as Fujifilm X-T5. A7CR on the other hand is relatively expensive in Japan compared to what normal hobbyists are willing to pay. A7RV seems to continue selling better than A7CR even if it remains more expensive. Possibly at that price level, more people are deciding to go for the bigger body with less technical compromises.
A7CII has been the #1 top selling digital interchangeable lens camera at Yodobashi Camera for first half of October, then Zf took #1 spot for 2nd half of October with A7CII at #2, and A7CII was again at #1 for 1st as well as 2nd half of November. Zf disappeared from top 10 list after October since there are no supplies after initial launch and new customers have to wait for ~6 months to get one.
Map had the original A7C as #1 on the used camera sales ranking for the same November period....Show more →
I can imagine that in Japan Sony A7C series sells well. In terms of image quality any A7c cameras is a huge upgrade from (say) m43, and the size penalty is not huge when small lens is used.
As a Sony FE shooter I have a different look at a7C cameras. For me the new II series is interestng because it solves some original A7C problems and offers latest Sony af technology. A7C r is more interesting because high resolution gives some cropping flexibility when shooting with primes. I also value the grip supplied with it. 33mpx is plenty for nice pictures, and it would be a better sensor for video. But there are many reasons why high resolution is good - one just does not want to pay the high premium price of A7C r in Europe.
p.5 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
tuomkok wrote:
I can imagine that in Japan Sony A7C series sells well. In terms of image quality any A7c cameras is a huge upgrade from (say) m43, and the size penalty is not huge when small lens is used.
As a Sony FE shooter I have a different look at a7C cameras. For me the new II series is interestng because it solves some original A7C problems and offers latest Sony af technology. A7C r is more interesting because high resolution gives some cropping flexibility when shooting with primes. I also value the grip supplied with it. 33mpx is plenty for nice pictures, and it would be a better sensor for video. But there are many reasons why high resolution is good - one just does not want to pay the high premium price of A7C r in Europe. ...Show more →
For me the high res would have more negative impact since I shoot a lot with adapted rangefinder lenses etc. that would suffer more on high res sensors with Sony sensor stack, and since I shoot mostly with silent / electronic shutter (where A7CII will have slightly faster readout than A7CR). Also I'm not keen on cropping and I hardly ever crop my photos. I prefer more manageable file sizes for storage since I shoot a lot of volume and like to keep everything on hard drives. I was already quite content with 24MP of the original A7C and A9 that were my previous main Sony cameras, but I bought A7CII mainly for all the new updates and improved EVF magnification etc. without putting much weight on increased resolution.
p.5 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
nepali wrote:
Sony is most likely trying to attract potential Q3 buyers with A7CR. At least in my case, that is true. I was tired of lugging around big camera and big lenses. Most of the time, they would just sit on my desk. I have been using DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras since 2005, and with two kids, I really wanted a good camera that I would be willing to take almost everywhere with me. I looked at Q3 but I just did not want to fork out $6000+tax for a point/shoot camera. A7CR gives me the MP I want for cropping and paired with smaller lenses, I pretty much take the setup everywhere with me. Whether the lenses I use are good with 61MP or not, I really do not care. All I want is to document my family moments the way I want to. I couldn't care less if the leaves on the trees at the corner are sharp or not.
The good thing about A7CR (at least to me) is that I can pair it with smaller lenses and go compact/light, and when needed/wanted, I can pair it with GM/bigger lenses. The grip that's included with A7CR makes it even more comfortable than the bigger bodies (I had an A7IV before this)....Show more →
I’m glad it works for you but I don’t think any serious q3 buyer who is willing to spend $6k is considering the a7cr to save a few bucks. It’s sorta in its own segment right now. I think the poor man’s q3 is a q2 or a Fuji x100v if you can find one.
p.5 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chez wrote:
Who says you can’t use the larger ( better ? ) lenses with the A7cr? When I want ultimate sharpness, shooting landscapes, I always use a tripod and with a tripod, I can easily put any lens onto the A7cr. The beauty of the A7cr, you can put a nice small lens onto the camera and have a nice compact walk around travel setup. It’s basically two cameras in one for me.
You can use a 600mm f4 with a nex-5 body but is it an enjoyable experience? Probably not. Glad you like it but the original discussion topic was why the camera isn’t selling well. It clearly appeals to a long time Sony user like yourself but its also clearly not bringing as much interest as many other cameras in the marketplace
p.5 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
If you are heavy EVF user, or/and do significant manual focusing the A7RV is the obvious choice. 9,4M resolution 0,9x EVF is a must and joy to use for MF. A7CR is like an ultra high-end point and shoot, most of LCD use and EVF just for bright sun.
p.5 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Swiss army knife it is not. It’s for folks who are willing to trade certain features available in the A7RV for a more compact size, perfectly fine if that’s their priority. There are plenty of folks who have bought the 7RC, perhaps as their second camera, I suspect. I personally prefer its bigger brother. It’s not really that much bigger except the hump. I bought an A7CII for my daughter so I got to play around with it a bit. Recently I was able to buy a new A7RV for $300 more than the best price some folks were getting for their 7RC through Greentoe, that further erased the 7RC’s appeal to me. Maybe I will pick one up for fun when I can get a new one for $2000.
IMHO, in Sonyland right now the Swiss Army knife is the A1, it got the speed and the resolution, for me anyway.
p.5 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Douglas L wrote:
Swiss army knife it is not. It’s for folks who are willing to trade certain features available in the A7RV for a more compact size, perfectly fine if that’s their priority. There are plenty of folks who have bought the 7RC, perhaps as their second camera, I suspect. I personally prefer its bigger brother. It’s not really that much bigger except the hump. I bought an A7CII for my daughter so I got to play around with it a bit. Recently I was able to buy a new A7RV for $300 more than the best price some folks were getting for their 7RC through Greentoe, that further erased the 7RC’s appeal to me. Maybe I will pick one up for fun when I can get a new one for $2000.
IMHO, in Sonyland right now the Swiss Army knife is the A1, it got the speed and the resolution, for me anyway....Show more →
A1 is a great camera especially if you need the speed and video specs. Sony's video for my purposes has been fine for a couple generations now so don't really care about video that much. Once I bought the RV it worked better for me and how/what I shoot. Stickier AF than A1 and like the extra MP for flexibility. Eventually Sold the A1 and bought a second RV. Now Sold the second RV and bought the CR. In the end all great cameras. But as they say it doesn't do you any good if you don't have it with you. And for me I'm noticing already with the short time of having both RV and CR I'll be reaching more for the CR purely based on the form factor. Sometimes I would not even bring my A1 or RV just based on size and use my phone. It's a much bigger difference than just saying the EVF hump is missing at least to me. Anyway we Sony shooters are pretty spoiled with great options to meet everyone's needs. I anticipate the CRii will be the perfect camera I had been looking for when they address some of the compromises. But until then I'll enjoy the current version and bringing it out with me more.
p.5 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
rhawidantas wrote:
At least in the camera shops I look around in Sweden/Germany the difference can be from 600 to 1000 euros, lower diff is with winter cashback.
Sadly, nowhere can I find for 2400 euros.
You mean A7cr for 2400e? Maybe 2025 Black Friday
A7C II prices hover in Europe around 2400e or slightly less. That is not as insanely expensive as A7Cr prices are, but I would not say it is a good price either. Almost all other Sony cameras are on cash back now.
p.5 #19 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
bluehawaii wrote:
124mm vs 130mm (W) and 71mm vs 80mm (H) so I think you're right about the EVF not fitting into the A7CR.
Perhaps they could have gone with 3.6M dot. Perhaps not. I still think neither screen nor EVF are great but I guess we have to consider the challenges the designers faced when the marketing team tell them the specs it must have.
Not only size difference but look at the weight difference. The Q3 is right up there with the A1 (715 vs. 737 grams), and this for a fixed-lens camera. The Q3 is Leica's R1 -- which I wish Sony would bring back. As for me, I'm in my 80s, I have worked professionally in the past, but right now a smaller, lighter, high-res camera is a God-send. Partly because the resolution allows me to limit the lenses I need to carry-- hit APS-c mode and still get good resolution, as well as general cropping.
p.5 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
nhsonyshooter wrote:
A1 is a great camera especially if you need the speed and video specs. Sony's video for my purposes has been fine for a couple generations now so don't really care about video that much. Once I bought the RV it worked better for me and how/what I shoot. Stickier AF than A1 and like the extra MP for flexibility. Eventually Sold the A1 and bought a second RV. Now Sold the second RV and bought the CR. In the end all great cameras. But as they say it doesn't do you any good if you don't have it with you. And for me I'm noticing already with the short time of having both RV and CR I'll be reaching more for the CR purely based on the form factor. Sometimes I would not even bring my A1 or RV just based on size and use my phone. It's a much bigger difference than just saying the EVF hump is missing at least to me. Anyway we Sony shooters are pretty spoiled with great options to meet everyone's needs. I anticipate the CRii will be the perfect camera I had been looking for when they address some of the compromises. But until then I'll enjoy the current version and bringing it out with me more. ...Show more →
I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but my guess is that Sony, on the next iteration of the A7Cr, will only fix one (max two) of the main issues, and save the rest for the next upgrade. This is the game Sony plays. I don't think we'll see a mechanical shutter on the A7Crii, nor an improved EVF (since most of the users report that the actual EVF is a visible improvement over the A7c's EVF), hence I speculate we might see the 4D (A7RV's) type of LCD implemented into the A7Crii camera body (since, again, some users would not mind a small size increase on the camera body).
