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Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"

  
 
swldstn
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


LBJ2 wrote:
There must be a market or Sony would not have continued the line with ver II or the A7cR.
Personal preference to include those that need and want small/compact FF as one of their top priorities. I also think the A7c models will however be a small compact FF camera system looking for a selection of equally small and compact AF lenses for some time to come. Sure we can mix and match larger lenses, but then almost defeats the small/compact proposal IMO and as others have mentioned the other Sony FF cameras really aren't much larger but balance better with
...Show more

I think Sigma’s I-Series f/2 and other Contemporary DG DN lenses like the 16-28/2.8 and 28-70/2.8 lenses are a good choice for the Compact A7 full frame bodies. The keep the size and weight down. Sure not as small and light as the Sony G trio but still have aperture rings on the primes and more affordable. I can easily carry two or three of these with an A7CII or A7CR. I really like the 35/2, 65/2, and 90/2.8 but there 17, 20, 24, 45, and 50 in the family.

Sigma is doing a lot of the heavy lifting just like they are doing for Sony’s APS-C family with the 16/1.4, 23/1.4, 30/1.4, 56/1.4 and their 10-18/2.8 and 18-50/2.8 DC DN Contemporaries.



Edited on Dec 16, 2023 at 06:41 PM · View previous versions



Dec 13, 2023 at 05:46 PM
patotts
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I had one of the new ones (a7CII instead of the R) and I didn't like it at all. It is actually too small in my hands, I found the on/off switch too cramp, I wasn't enjoying the EVF, I missed the lack of customization button, etc, etc. I much rather carry a7RV, even with the extra size and weight.

Again, the a7CR is an amazing technical feat and miniaturization. It is great it was released, but I wouldn't recommend it to many/most people. If you have and enjoy it - all the power to you.



Dec 13, 2023 at 09:21 PM
tzhang4284
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


nepali wrote:
So there are other cameras in the market that is smaller than many APS-C cameras that also offer full-frame 61MP sensor? Please point me to some. Also, how is A7CR boring?


The issue is that 61mp is a very demanding resolution and the lenses that really take advantage of that are fairly big on Sony. If you don’t care about ultimate sharpness, a Sony A7C, A7CII, Nikon ZF, or one of the Fuji models make a lot more sense. As for APS-C 61mp, I wouldn’t want that. I had the Fuji XT-5 and 40mp APS-C was already extremely demanding.

As for boring, nothing particularly new and doesn’t really excite any particular demographic group. Take a look at how the Nikon ZF has been selling like hot cakes in contrast.



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:06 AM
RomanMF
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Does then A7CR viewfinder down-res when acquiring focus like the A7RV's?


Dec 14, 2023 at 01:29 AM
Lukacs
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I wanted A7CR because I prefer rangefinder style camera over DSLR style. However I've upgraded from A7III to A7RIV. The reasons:
-Most obvious is the price. I found an almost new (200shots) A7RIV for 800.000HUF. Nobody selling A7CR yet on used market, the new price is 1450.000HUF, almost double price. And still it has disadvantages compared to A7RIV:
-Basic EVF compared RIV. I have Voigtlander 65 and MF on RIV's EVF is far easier due the resolution comapred A7III. And A7CR's EVF is even worse (lower magnification). If I don't MF than it'd be no concern for me.
-Lower resolution LCD
-Articulated LCD, I barely shoot videos, so I like tilting screen far more.
-E-front curtain shutter. Not that big deal but with 35 1.2 Art often need 1/8000 speed, lower normal flash sync speed (250 vs 160)
-1 slot SD card, also not a big deal for me, but I feel more security having dual SD.

I still want A7CR in future, I expect at end of 2024 will come some deals to get it way more reasonable price. I'd like to use it as a multi purpose camera. I shoot larger glasses with additional grip (like 35 art and 65 APO), and buy the 40 2.5 as a walk around lens without grip. I expect it's way better portable, and more important it's far less intimidating than a bigger DSLR style A7RIV.



Dec 14, 2023 at 02:53 AM
Juha Kannisto
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


In Japan A7CII has been selling very well and A7CR not as well due to pricing, as A7CII seems to have been priced strategically for Japan market and is slightly cheaper here than Nikon Zf, and about the same price as Fujifilm X-T5. A7CR on the other hand is relatively expensive in Japan compared to what normal hobbyists are willing to pay. A7RV seems to continue selling better than A7CR even if it remains more expensive. Possibly at that price level, more people are deciding to go for the bigger body with less technical compromises.

A7CII has been the #1 top selling digital interchangeable lens camera at Yodobashi Camera for first half of October, then Zf took #1 spot for 2nd half of October with A7CII at #2, and A7CII was again at #1 for 1st as well as 2nd half of November. Zf disappeared from top 10 list after October since there are no supplies after initial launch and new customers have to wait for ~6 months to get one.

Yodobashi Camera sales rankings (Japanese webpages):
https://getnavi.jp/capa/news/451252/ (2nd half of November)
https://getnavi.jp/capa/news/450255/ (1st half of November)
https://getnavi.jp/capa/news/448884/ (2nd half of October)
https://getnavi.jp/capa/news/447661/ (1st half of October)

Map Camera's November sales ranking also has A7CII at #1 spot:
https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes/2023%e5%b9%b411%e6%9c%88-%e6%96%b0%e5%93%81%e3%83%bb%e4%b8%ad%e5%8f%a4%e3%83%87%e3%82%b8%e3%82%bf%e3%83%ab%e3%82%ab%e3%83%a1%e3%83%a9%e4%ba%ba%e6%b0%97%e3%83%a9%e3%83%b3%e3%82%ad%e3%83%b3%e3%82%b0/

Map had the original A7C as #1 on the used camera sales ranking for the same November period.



Dec 14, 2023 at 03:33 AM
j4nu
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


It seems in many, if not most, places around the world CR is priced 50% more over CII. This makes it a hefty investment for those additional megapixels and a grip IMHO ...


Dec 14, 2023 at 08:17 AM
patotts
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


RomanMF wrote:
Does then A7CR viewfinder down-res when acquiring focus like the A7RV's?


I don't think the EVF res can get any lower ;-)

Seriously, this is one of my pet-peeve with the a7RV. Not a deal killer, but it is so irritating when trying to shoot action, esp in poor light situations.




Dec 14, 2023 at 08:30 AM
tuomkok
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


j4nu wrote:
It seems in many, if not most, places around the world CR is priced 50% more over CII. This makes it a hefty investment for those additional megapixels and a grip IMHO ...


A few posts back I wrote about European prices: A7C II 2200-2400e, A7Cr 3500-3800e. That price difference is even more than 50%. My theory is that they want to reduce A7rIV stock with the ongoing cashback campaign before A7cr prices become more realistic.




Dec 14, 2023 at 08:32 AM
Juha Kannisto
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


j4nu wrote:
It seems in many, if not most, places around the world CR is priced 50% more over CII. This makes it a hefty investment for those additional megapixels and a grip IMHO ...


This is true for Japan with about 52% gap. For me the A7CII was an easy choice as I never wanted to have lots of resolution in the first place and 61MP would be more of a hindrance from my viewpoint.



Dec 14, 2023 at 08:32 AM
 


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davev
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I'm not thrilled with the placement of the viewfinder on these smaller cameras, but I can live with it.
The Rez of the screens doesn't matter to me, I trust that when the that little box turns green around an eye,
I have an in focus shot.
Same with two cards slots. I've have 30+ digital cameras over the last 25 years, never lost a photo to a bad card.
I waited for the announcement of the a9III. I wanted a fast camera with the focus improvements of the a75.
The price of the a9III will keep me away from it for years, and the speed of it would never be used by me.
So I turned my eyes to the a75, still a large price tag, but I was hoping Black Friday would bring it down some.
Then the post about the a7CR and prices on GT, so I jumped on it.
For the price difference, it's like I have the functionality of the a75, in a a7CR, but I got my Samyang 35-150 pretty much for free.
As for the weight savings of these smaller cameras, I'd be better off hitting the gym and losing half a pound, than buying a smaller camera.





Dec 14, 2023 at 09:38 AM
chez
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


tzhang4284 wrote:
The issue is that 61mp is a very demanding resolution and the lenses that really take advantage of that are fairly big on Sony. If you don’t care about ultimate sharpness, a Sony A7C, A7CII, Nikon ZF, or one of the Fuji models make a lot more sense. As for APS-C 61mp, I wouldn’t want that. I had the Fuji XT-5 and 40mp APS-C was already extremely demanding.

As for boring, nothing particularly new and doesn’t really excite any particular demographic group. Take a look at how the Nikon ZF has been selling like hot cakes in contrast.


Who says you can’t use the larger ( better ? ) lenses with the A7cr? When I want ultimate sharpness, shooting landscapes, I always use a tripod and with a tripod, I can easily put any lens onto the A7cr. The beauty of the A7cr, you can put a nice small lens onto the camera and have a nice compact walk around travel setup. It’s basically two cameras in one for me.



Dec 14, 2023 at 09:39 AM
nepali
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


tzhang4284 wrote:
The issue is that 61mp is a very demanding resolution and the lenses that really take advantage of that are fairly big on Sony. If you don’t care about ultimate sharpness, a Sony A7C, A7CII, Nikon ZF, or one of the Fuji models make a lot more sense. As for APS-C 61mp, I wouldn’t want that. I had the Fuji XT-5 and 40mp APS-C was already extremely demanding.

As for boring, nothing particularly new and doesn’t really excite any particular demographic group. Take a look at how the Nikon ZF has been selling like hot cakes in contrast.


Sony is most likely trying to attract potential Q3 buyers with A7CR. At least in my case, that is true. I was tired of lugging around big camera and big lenses. Most of the time, they would just sit on my desk. I have been using DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras since 2005, and with two kids, I really wanted a good camera that I would be willing to take almost everywhere with me. I looked at Q3 but I just did not want to fork out $6000+tax for a point/shoot camera. A7CR gives me the MP I want for cropping and paired with smaller lenses, I pretty much take the setup everywhere with me. Whether the lenses I use are good with 61MP or not, I really do not care. All I want is to document my family moments the way I want to. I couldn't care less if the leaves on the trees at the corner are sharp or not.

The good thing about A7CR (at least to me) is that I can pair it with smaller lenses and go compact/light, and when needed/wanted, I can pair it with GM/bigger lenses. The grip that's included with A7CR makes it even more comfortable than the bigger bodies (I had an A7IV before this).



Dec 14, 2023 at 09:40 AM
Michael Everet
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


davev wrote:
I'm not thrilled with the placement of the viewfinder on these smaller cameras, but I can live with it.



I know it's a personal preference but the rangefinder placement of the EVF on the A7cx cameras is one of the most appealing aspects of it to me. That just checked one more box in my wish list when the cr came out. (Size, FF, resolution, were the other big ones.) I might add I was surprised to find the smaller EVF (prior camera A7rIV) not a problem.



Dec 14, 2023 at 10:48 AM
GOVA
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


because many prefer to stay with A7RIII for instance which has one of the best sensors ever produced and is plenty for all types of shooting.


Dec 14, 2023 at 11:02 AM
Recklesscoding
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


nepali wrote:
If a person's priority is price then, yes, that makes sense. If a person's priority is smaller/lighter body, like in my case, that price difference (or no price difference) does not matter. If a burger costs the same as a juicy piece of steak but I WANT a burger then the price does not matter.


Yes, of course different people may have different priorities. In tech, smaller size always comes at a premium in terms of value proposition of the item; whether that is a laptop, phone, or camera. Still, the majority of the people probably still go with features set/price.

nhsonyshooter wrote:
Yes and no. I agree if I was buying one camera I would buy the A7RV first absolutely. Since in my case I already have it the smaller body is attractive for a lot of reasons. As mentioned the funny part is (and I was not expecting it) the A7CR with the included Grip is better than the A7RV on it's own. Not that I ever really thought the RV was bad. I kinda like the hanging pinky thing. But with bigger glass the extend grip does feel better and it adds nothing to the weight unlike a battery grip.
...Show more

I found that adding a SmallRig bottom plate fixes the 'hanging pinky' on the RV. It adds little-to-none weight and as a bonus it is Arca compatible. ;-)

I still think that the Olympus E-M1 MkII had the best grip I have ever used in a mirrorless—especially, given its overall size—but the RV is really not that bad at all! Miles ahead than the 3rd-gen A7 bodies.



Dec 14, 2023 at 11:02 AM
shadow9d9
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


The size and weight benefits are relatively small, and drawbacks are significant to me(viewfinder, mechanical shutter limits). Sony cameras are already small and light enough for me, though they are getting bigger and heavier.


Dec 14, 2023 at 12:00 PM
ruthenium
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I think A7CR appeals to the photographer who wants the lightest and most compact camera system as a top priority, and at all costs, including picking relatively slow zooms and primes to pair with the body. I am not sure if this group of photographers is large; maybe it is relatively small? So the camera doesn't sell well.
Personally, I use and like the fast GM glass (35 f/1.4, 50 f/1.3) and the large and larger zooms, like 70-200GMii, Tamron 35-150 and 50-400. The A1 works well for me, and I am looking forward to A1 II.
You call A7CR a Swiss knife. I am in the category who might be interested in a (high end) "Swiss watch"-kind of compact FF camera, with a fast 28-35 mm lens.




Dec 14, 2023 at 12:26 PM
bluehawaii
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I think the cheap 1m dot selfie-screen and EFCS only on the A7CR limited it a bit too much, given the higher cost over the A7CII.

If they are (I don't think they are) going up against the Leica Q3 which has a 1.8m dot tilt screen and 5.7m dot evf, they have’t quite managed it yet. Especially so since there isn’t an excellent and compact 28mm E-mount AF lens available.

That said, other than the FPL there isn't an interchangeable lens camera using that sensor offering so many features, which does make the A7CR unique in many ways.



Dec 14, 2023 at 12:31 PM
chez
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


bluehawaii wrote:
I think the cheap 1m dot selfie-screen and EFCS only on the A7CR limited it a bit too much, given the higher cost over the A7CII.

If they are (I don't think they are) going up against the Leica Q3 which has a 1.8m dot tilt screen and 5.7m dot evf, they have’t quite managed it yet. Especially so since there isn’t an excellent and compact 28mm E-mount AF lens available.

That said, other than the FPL there isn't an interchangeable lens camera using that sensor offering so many features, which does make the A7CR unique in many ways.


Let’s not forget the Q3 is twice the price and you are stuck at one focal length…both huge negatives imho.



Dec 14, 2023 at 12:50 PM
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