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Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"

  
 
bluehawaii
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


chez wrote:
Letís not forget the Q3 is twice the price and you are stuck at one focal lengthÖboth huge negatives imho.


Exactly right, but you are also getting a top class Leica lens along with those EVF and screen improvements.

I just wonder how much extra the 61mp sensor costs over 33mp. And if that doesn't make up for the extra cost over the CII, then why is the A7CR so much more expensive? The better EVF and screen resolution "cannot be fitted into the A7CR" arguments would seem to be false since the Q3 is very similar in size to the CR.

If we look back at the A7RIV; it was quietly upgraded to a much higher res. screen which became the A7RIVA. Exactly the same thing happened to the A7RIII (A7RIIIA).

I am hoping that the same happens to the A7CR. Hopefully the price comes down a touch also.



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:02 PM
nepali
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


bluehawaii wrote:
I think the cheap 1m dot selfie-screen and EFCS only on the A7CR limited it a bit too much, given the higher cost over the A7CII.

If they are (I don't think they are) going up against the Leica Q3 which has a 1.8m dot tilt screen and 5.7m dot evf, they haveít quite managed it yet. Especially so since there isnít an excellent and compact 28mm E-mount AF lens available.

That said, other than the FPL there isn't an interchangeable lens camera using that sensor offering so many features, which does make the A7CR unique in many ways.


Specification-wise, I agree that the screen/EVF is of lower resolution and it only has EFCS, but, have you used it or are you just regurgitating something you have heard others say about these being limitations?

Q2/Q3 are slightly taller so maybe this allows more room for better tech?



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:15 PM
bluehawaii
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


nepali wrote:
Specification-wise, I agree that the screen/EVF is of lower resolution and it only has EFCS, but, have you used it or are you just regurgitating something you have heard others say about these being limitations?

Q2/Q3 are slightly taller so maybe this allows more room for better tech?


I tested the A7CII and found that the screen put me off the camera. I was surprised to see that the supposedly high end model A7CR uses the exact same 1m dot screen. Fujifilm, Canon, Nikon Zf all use higher res. screens even on cheaper models.

I was frustrated when upgrading to the A7RIIIA because theyíd used a cheap screen on the first model which was not that great to use IMO.

The A7RIII actually had a 1.44m dot screen (higher than the A7CR) at launch. It was then upgraded to 2.36m dot. Sony obviously saw fit to do this. It seems we are just going through the same scenario again with the A7CR. Now we've gone back, not to 1.44m dot but even lower down to 1m dot.

Initially I wanted to purchase the A7IV but didnít like the size increase (it feels way bigger than the A7III IMO) and couldnít live with the flip out to the side screen on a large camera like that.

I appreciate that they need to differentiate with the A7RV and that's fine, but I think could have chosen other areas to do it which didn't compromise usage, especially on a supposedly high end 61mp camera that costs thousands of dollars.

The thread is about why the A7CR isn't mega popular so Iím just responding to that by explaining my reservations as a potential customer. And someone who has spent thousands upon thousands with Sony over the years.

Just my opinion.



Edited on Dec 14, 2023 at 01:43 PM · View previous versions



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:33 PM
chez
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


bluehawaii wrote:
Exactly right, but you are also getting a top class Leica lens along with those EVF and screen improvements.

I just wonder how much extra the 61mp sensor costs over 33mp. And if that doesn't make up for the extra cost over the CII, then why is the A7CR so much more expensive? The better EVF and screen resolution "cannot be fitted into the A7CR" arguments would seem to be false since the Q3 is very similar in size to the CR.

If we look back at the A7RIV; it was quietly upgraded to a much higher res. screen which
...Show more

Price has very little to do with cost. The A7cr is a unique camera with zero competition and is priced with that in mind.

Iíve done some reading on the Q3 and seems many complain about the AF, especially in dim light. Surely a $6000 camera should best the AF of a $3000 camera right?



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:42 PM
nepali
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


bluehawaii wrote:
I tested the A7CII and found that the screen put me off the camera. I was surprised to see that the supposedly high end model A7CR uses the exact same 1m dot screen. Fujifilm, Canon, Nikon Zf all use higher res. screens even on cheaper models.

I was frustrated when upgrading to the A7RIIIA because theyíd used a cheap screen on the first model which was not that great to use IMO.

The A7RIII actually had a 1.44m dot screen (higher than the A7CR) at launch. It was then upgraded to 2.36m dot. Sony obviously saw fit to do this. It
...Show more

I guess my question still stands....how did the lower resolution screen limit your photography skills? I'm not trying to argue but I'm just curious.



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:44 PM
bluehawaii
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


chez wrote:
Price has very little to do with cost. The A7cr is a unique camera with zero competition and is priced with that in mind.

Iíve done some reading on the Q3 and seems many complain about the AF, especially in dim light. Surely a $6000 camera should best the AF of a $3000 camera right?


Yes I agree and I said that it was a "unique camera" in my first post.

Agree also about price/ cost.

Regarding price/ cost relationship: that's a very important point since I strongly feel that there was a decent reserve in costing budget to include some nicer components (other than sensor) for the special and unique A7CR.



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:49 PM
chez
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


bluehawaii wrote:
Yes I agree and I said that it was a "unique camera" in my first post.

Agree also about price/ cost.

Regarding price/ cost relationship: that's a very important point since I strongly feel that there was a decent reserve in costing budget to include some nicer components (other than sensor) for the special and unique A7CR.


Well if you include everything that is in the A7r5, then you are in the $4000 range from a market segmentation view which puts it even further out of reach of many people.




Dec 14, 2023 at 01:53 PM
bluehawaii
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


nepali wrote:
I guess my question still stands....how did the lower resolution screen limit your photography skills? I'm not trying to argue but I'm just curious.


It didn't: the photo is pre-visualised and no amount of screen resolution will fix that. Images within the photo aren't always easily visible and that's where a really nice high quality screen comes in. I feel like the A7CR, being the top and much more expensive model in this fledgling 2 camera sub category could have done better in that regard. So I didn't buy it. Now someone is asking why and I'm explaining.



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:53 PM
bluehawaii
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


chez wrote:
Well if you include everything that is in the A7r5, then you are in the $4000 range from a market segmentation view which puts it even further out of reach of many people.



Agree. Never suggested they should.



Edited on Dec 14, 2023 at 01:55 PM · View previous versions



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:55 PM
nepali
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


chez wrote:
Price has very little to do with cost. The A7cr is a unique camera with zero competition and is priced with that in mind.

Iíve done some reading on the Q3 and seems many complain about the AF, especially in dim light. Surely a $6000 camera should best the AF of a $3000 camera right?


Exactly! That is what people are not getting. Price is not proportionately related to cost. Sony priced it to maximize their profit because they know that no other compact 61MP camera exists at this price point to compete with A7CR.

Q3 has so many limitations as well but no one cares because it's Leica.

Edited on Dec 14, 2023 at 01:57 PM · View previous versions



Dec 14, 2023 at 01:55 PM
 


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bluehawaii
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


nepali wrote:
Exactly! That is what people are not getting. Price is not proportionately related to cost. Sony price it to maximize their profit because they know that no other compact 61MP camera exists at this price point to compete with A7CR.

Q3 has so many limitations as well but no one cares because it's Leica.


I said that in the first post.




Dec 14, 2023 at 01:56 PM
catacore
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


chez wrote:
bluehawaii wrote:



Dec 14, 2023 at 02:42 PM
catacore
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"



chez wrote:
Absolutely. That's why the M11 with no AF at all costs twice as much as the top camera from Sony Leica is about lifestyle much more than is about photography, these days....

My problem is with the game Sony plays, like giving us small improvements in a hope we will upgrade each time for each iteration of a certain line of cameras (as mentioned with the A7Riii vs A7RiiiA, for instance). This, along with the mixing and matching of the camera's features, to force the user to buy multiple cameras in order to cover for slight different needs.

As for
...Show more



Dec 14, 2023 at 02:43 PM
catacore
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


chez wrote:
Surely a $6000 camera should best the AF of a $3000 camera right?


Absolutely. That's why the M11 with no AF at all costs twice as much as the top camera from Sony Leica is about lifestyle much more than is about photography, these days....

My problem is with the game Sony plays, like giving us small improvements in a hope we will upgrade each time for each iteration of a certain line of cameras (as mentioned with the A7Riii vs A7RiiiA, for instance). This, along with the mixing and matching of the camera's features, to force the user to buy multiple cameras in order to cover for (slight) different needs.

As for me, I quite like the rangefinder style A7c, but quite hate using it due to, mainly, the selfie screen (I hate it with a passion) and poor EVF (especially with MF lenses). Having said that, Sony will not see my money on another rangefinder style camera until it will be properly (and stills oriented) made. And for me, the bonus of using the A7c as a daily/travel camera is its actual cost - I much prefer to carry with me a 1200 EUR combo than a 4000 EUR combo everyday and everywhere. I just feel more confortable this way.



Dec 14, 2023 at 02:44 PM
tsdevine
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"



I believe the a7R III vs a7R IIIA was more driven by being able to source the LCD panel being used in the original model than some intended incremental improvement.

catacore wrote:
Absolutely. That's why the M11 with no AF at all costs twice as much as the top camera from Sony Leica is about lifestyle much more than is about photography, these days....

My problem is with the game Sony plays, like giving us small improvements in a hope we will upgrade each time for each iteration of a certain line of cameras (as mentioned with the A7Riii vs A7RiiiA, for instance). This, along with the mixing and matching of the camera's features, to force the user to buy multiple cameras in order to cover for (slight) different needs.

As for
...Show more




Dec 14, 2023 at 02:58 PM
bluehawaii
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


That could be right, the Ricoh GRII and III designer was saying the only reason they went with a touch screen in the GRIII was because the non-touch was no longer available. The A7III stayed at 921k dot and the a7RIII 1.44M dot before the update.




Dec 14, 2023 at 03:01 PM
catacore
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


tsdevine wrote:
I believe the a7R III vs a7R IIIA was more driven by being able to source the LCD panel being used in the original model than some intended incremental improvement.



It happened again with the A7Riv vs A7RivA. Then the EVF of A7c vs A7Cr/Cii (only slight magnification increase). Just drop-by-drop, to keep the fish interested....They didn't even fit the silicon eye piece cup for the EVF from the A6700 to the A7Cr/Cii.

Actually, I am very gratefull that Sony prevents me from upgrading my A7c because, in the end, I don't really need to. And the main reason for an upgrade, for me, would not be the pixels number, but the hardware everybody is complaining about (EVF, selfie screen, LCD resolution, mechanical shutter).




Dec 14, 2023 at 03:16 PM
bluehawaii
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


It's entirely possible that they simply ran out of development time to spec and order a different screen/ EVF for the A7CR. The A9 stayed with the 1.44M dot screen before the A9II came along which again used the 1.44M dot panel.


Dec 14, 2023 at 03:39 PM
philip_pj
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


For MF users, for whom there are good reasons to think a high end EVF would be a suitable match in a 61mp body, this comment struck me as significant:

'-Basic EVF compared RIV. I have Voigtlander 65 and MF on RIV's EVF is far easier due the resolution compared to A7III. And A7CR's EVF is even worse (lower magnification). If I don't MF than it'd be no concern for me.'

Concerns with clean top panel lines and overall size might have been more important to Sony here. The stubby squared off harder plastic EVF box is a far cry from what Sony has been doing for a long time now. It looks like penny-pinching disguised as virtuous size reduction, and might be a (possibly unconscious) factor in buyer hesitancy.

The EVF specs (2.4m / 0.7) don't help change this perception. And it looks like an afterthought, in design terms. My a99 has the same (2.4m / 0.7) but it's placed inside a centrally located luxurious eye-friendly and sun-defeating housing. And so did the a77 (2.4m / 1.09), as they worked to emulate the industry-best a900 (100%) VF experience even in APS-C (the NEX 7 was not bad either).

I include an image of the first a7r as well below. Look at the rear controls by comparison. TBH, they probably would not have dared do this EVF in 2012-13. So if the a7CR is the Swiss Army knife (a fair analogy, something that does everything somewhat well in a pinch), the early Sony EVFs were the Spiderco knives of their day.

As an EVF-only user, the totality of it looks like a backward step in usability (and therefore enjoyment) terms. But their move to embracing minimalism in the central feature of the camera - it's why I call them 'EVF cameras' - is enough to dissuade many from buying in, despite the fine effort at weight minimisation. A few images to show you what we had from Sony a decade ago below. That's what you are going without in the a7c series, they might have done better in the 'r' version.





a99 rear panel







a77 rear panel







a7r rear panel - in a 465 gram body




Dec 14, 2023 at 04:08 PM
GMPhotography
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


This camera is NOT and let me repeat NOT this Swiss Army knife , not even close. I simply can't use it on a technical level. Flash sync , Led and other reasons. A A7RV is the Swiss army knife and even the A1 for that matter. You left a whole market segment out saying that and that's us Pro's for real work, for travel its fine and a casual unit in the market. Ends there. Sure it's cute and small and light weight but it will not get all jobs done at all . Not to mention the EVF stuff and such. Frankly the real Swiss Army knife outside the 24mpx is the A9III. If it was 42 I would be all over it. Not to insult anyone but it's on a hobbyist level in the market. Sure you get 61mpx but it basically ends there. Flame suit on but honestly think outside your box.


Dec 14, 2023 at 05:05 PM
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