p.6 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
catacore wrote:
I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but my guess is that Sony, on the next iteration of the A7Cr, will only fix one (max two) of the main issues, and save the rest for the next upgrade. This is the game Sony plays. I don't think we'll see a mechanical shutter on the A7Crii, nor an improved EVF (since most of the users report that the actual EVF is a visible improvement over the A7c's EVF), hence I speculate we might see the 4D (A7RV's) type of LCD implemented into the A7Crii camera body (since, again, some users would not mind a small size increase on the camera body)....Show more →
Even if they only update to the RV screen. Still instant buy for me.
p.6 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
tzhang4284 wrote:
I’m glad it works for you but I don’t think any serious q3 buyer who is willing to spend $6k is considering the a7cr to save a few bucks. It’s sorta in its own segment right now. I think the poor man’s q3 is a q2 or a Fuji x100v if you can find one.
Trust me when I say this that going with an A7CR instead of a Q3 was not a financial decision for me. It was more of being able to use different focal length while not compromising on that 61MP sensor.
tzhang4284 wrote:
You can use a 600mm f4 with a nex-5 body but is it an enjoyable experience? Probably not. Glad you like it but the original discussion topic was why the camera isn’t selling well. It clearly appeals to a long time Sony user like yourself but its also clearly not bringing as much interest as many other cameras in the marketplace
If we are being specific then a 600mm f4 is not comfortable on A7RV either.
p.6 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
tzhang4284 wrote:
You can use a 600mm f4 with a nex-5 body but is it an enjoyable experience? Probably not. Glad you like it but the original discussion topic was why the camera isn’t selling well. It clearly appeals to a long time Sony user like yourself but its also clearly not bringing as much interest as many other cameras in the marketplace
Yes, it is a more niche camera for those that value a compact carry everywhere camera and does not appeal to those that love getting the latest fully spec’d camera.
p.6 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
IF I'm still doing a lot of overseas travel (including backpacking trips to middle east, caucasus etc) like a 5-10 years ago I would get the A7Cr on day 1, I can accept those compromises in EVF and control (I switched to Sony NEX-7 from Nikon DSLR so yes I can compromise control for size/weight savings, and way before that I have down-graded a really good film SLR to a cheap entry level SLR with much worse OVF). Without checking the spec sheets, I think A7CR is not any worse than NEX in terms of control and EVF/LCD. I'm not overly demanding on LCD/EVF as long as they don't get in the way but then I'm not a pro I don't have to "work" with those for hours a day.
If I have a lot of spare money I would still be very interested in a small body but more likely C2 (have A6500 for that role right now, A7R5 is my main, old A7R2 as backup).
Not sure if there are any sales numbers out there but smaller cameras are often a lot more popular in Asia than in US.
And I suspect lots of CR/C2 intended/actual users ain't using camera forums. A climber colleague once asked me about smallest/lightest full frame options, I don't think he uses camera forums (but uses mountain/wall climbing forums).
It’s not really that much bigger except the hump. I
The hump is exactly the part I really dislike, esp when pulling the camera out from a bag.
p.6 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
I suspect the A7Cr was kind of like a freebie marketing test for Sony - the marginal R&D and production costs over the A7Cii was probably tiny. If it doesn't sell well then they just won't bother with future iterations and concentrate on the Ciii etc.
Personally I think the holy grail would be the A9C. That would sell by the bucketload.
p.6 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
nepali wrote:
Trust me when I say this that going with an A7CR instead of a Q3 was not a financial decision for me. It was more of being able to use different focal length while not compromising on that 61MP sensor.
If we are being specific then a 600mm f4 is not comfortable on A7RV either.
I know financial is a key decision point for most people, including myself, but let's be honest, a a7CR got nothing on a Leica Q3 in terms of shooting experience, industrial design, and connection between lens and body. I would much rather use the EVF of the Leica vs the a7CR. Now the quality of the AF and flexibility of using different lenses falls squarely in favor of the Sony, but I wouldn't really use either as a substitute for the other. My 2 cents.
p.6 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
newdom wrote:
I suspect the A7Cr was kind of like a freebie marketing test for Sony - the marginal R&D and production costs over the A7Cii was probably tiny. If it doesn't sell well then they just won't bother with future iterations and concentrate on the Ciii etc.
Personally I think the holy grail would be the A9C. That would sell by the bucketload.
The A9 is targeted at fast action with typically big lenses. Who do you feel the market would be for a miniaturized version of the A9…surely not those sitting on the side lines with their 400 2.8 lens.
p.6 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Trust me when I say this that going with an A7CR instead of a Q3 was not a financial decision for me. It was more of being able to use different focal length while not compromising on that 61MP sensor.
If you're looking for an interchangeable lens camera, then you're not a serious Q3 buyer still. Apples vs oranges.
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chez wrote:
Yes, it is a more niche camera for those that value a compact carry everywhere camera and does not appeal to those that love getting the latest fully spec’d camera.
This is where I think you're wrong. For those that value a compact carry everywhere camera, there are many better options. This is a very well covered niche. Megaipxels without a compelling small lens doesn't matter.
p.6 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
My upgrade path is going to be as follows:
- I have an OG A9
- Add a high res body with the AI chip
- Maybe sell the A9 and upgrade with a used OG A1 when the A1mk2 drops
I want all the "quality of life" improvements in the new high res body and the A7cR only offers the AI chip, and I can get the A7RV for just incrementally more money with a much better shooting experience. Combine that with the fact that the only "small" lenses I have are the 20G, 35i and 28-200 (not all that small in absolute terms), I can't see a compelling reason for the compact version.
I did think about the A7cR, but the EVF and back screen were deal breakers
p.6 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
A huge amount of people buying these cameras (especially the C series) are enthusiasts and amateurs. The folk are willing to spend a lot of money on a good camera but are much less likely to have multiple bodies. That means they're going to be looking for a powerful camera that 1) doesn't have any obvious faults that limit them to only certain kinds of photography and 2) is better than the camera they already have.
That means the EFCS bokeh issue is a strike out on point 1 and the fact that the a7cr is either equal or inferior to the a7riii/a7riv (whether it's IQ, buffer, ECF and LCD resolution or whatever) means it strikes out on point 2 as well.
I think they would have been better off making it a compact a7rv with less compromises and charging more accordingly. More like the GFX 50R vs 50S situation instead of making a dumbed down a7rv.
p.6 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
newdom wrote:
I suspect the A7Cr was kind of like a freebie marketing test for Sony - the marginal R&D and production costs over the A7Cii was probably tiny. If it doesn't sell well then they just won't bother with future iterations and concentrate on the Ciii etc.
Personally I think the holy grail would be the A9C. That would sell by the bucketload.
Seems the most likely explanation they're identical but with different sensors. Like car makers did with the modular platforms. Drastically cut production costs.
Stacked makes perfect sense as a small body since it removes the requirement for a shutter at all.
Lack of 1/8000th mechanical shutter complaints?
Gone.
Flash sync?
Solved.
The camera would be even lighter too.
Aside from the slight DR penalty it's the natural progression for these smaller cameras.
p.6 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chez wrote:
The A9 is targeted at fast action with typically big lenses. Who do you feel the market would be for a miniaturized version of the A9…surely not those sitting on the side lines with their 400 2.8 lens.
I have shot with A9 since 2019. All kinds of photography from birding to street, events and family. A few years back, before buing X100V, I was using A9 with 35/2.8 as my day to day camera. Worked fine.
The user experience with blackout free EVF and no mechanical shutter shock is very fluid. Makes photography more fun and enjoyable even when conventional camera with mechanical shutter would do the job. And not forgetting the silent shutter that can be used almost everywhere.
I would be excited if A9C would be reality Even more exciting, if it would be 33mpx resolution! And how about A9Cr with A1 sensor. Not serious... ...just deaming
p.6 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
lostinaustin wrote:
A huge amount of people buying these cameras (especially the C series) are enthusiasts and amateurs. The folk are willing to spend a lot of money on a good camera but are much less likely to have multiple bodies. That means they're going to be looking for a powerful camera that 1) doesn't have any obvious faults that limit them to only certain kinds of photography and 2) is better than the camera they already have.
That means the EFCS bokeh issue is a strike out on point 1 and the fact that the a7cr is either equal or inferior to the a7riii/a7riv (whether it's IQ, buffer, ECF and LCD resolution or whatever) means it strikes out on point 2 as well.
I think they would have been better off making it a compact a7rv with less compromises and charging more accordingly. More like the GFX 50R vs 50S situation instead of making a dumbed down a7rv....Show more →
If your logic is right…then why do we see so many members interested in the more compact lenses or the 28-200 zooms when there are technically better GM lenses? Many people value compactness and weight just as much as ultimatum mage quality…in fact many value compactness more than image quality.
p.6 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chez wrote:
If your logic is right…then why do we see so many members interested in the more compact lenses or the 28-200 zooms when there are technically better GM lenses? Many people value compactness and weight just as much as ultimatum mage quality…in fact many value compactness more than image quality.
Yes but the obvious answer is the don't value compactness over a camera that is a downgrade or sidegrade from what they already own and have paid for. Your analogy would be more like already owning a GM lens when sony releases a new G lens. Sure it's more compact but that is a hard sell to a lot of people.
p.6 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
lostinaustin wrote:
Yes but the obvious answer is the don't value compactness over a camera that is a downgrade or sidegrade from what they already own and have paid for. Your analogy would be more like already owning a GM lens when sony releases a new G lens. Sure it's more compact but that is a hard sell to a lot of people.
I see many people here with larger cameras ( a1, a9 etc… ) talk about getting another camera for travel and everyday walk around. And don’t forget the huge number of potential people entering their stages of life when they can afford better cameras. There is a much bigger and different world out there outside of FM.
p.6 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Exaggerations incoming (:
Why is the shutter sound on the a7cr so loud.... The other compromises are fine, nothing that really affects me, but for my style of street photos, I want to be as invisible and silent as possible. I wasn't prepared to shoot with a light, compact, high resolution 'banshee' telling everyone "Hey, you're on Candid camera"! It is triggering my PTSD from the old Nikon era...
p.6 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Never thought I'd be the one kinda defending Sony on this one. Right now there are "new" and basically new A7cr's on the buy and sell board for 2400, 2600 dollars. Not sure what those 14 people are waiting for. I'm just curious why people are not scooping these up. The camera is far from perfect I'm the first to admit but for those prices I just don't see a better camera across brands. Yes I hate all flip screens, it sucks but I'll live with it till the day the A7crii is released. The EVF is OK. At least useable now. Would I like full mechanical to 8000, sure. Are there other nit picks, yup. But still with all that said I bought mine at full retail and still think it is great. I have been using a couple of RV's so basically I knew what I was getting and what I was missing. I call it a swiss army knife because surprisingly I actually have been using the extension grip when shooting wildlife with the 100-400 + 1.4x. It actually feels better in the hand then my RV. Didn't see that coming. The beauty is it goes on and comes off in like 4 seconds.The weight difference people under estimate. I know I did. When I opened the box and lifted it out the first thing that popped into my head was "crap, some replaced it with a fake". Totally caught me off guard. Quickly unscrewed the cap and hey there is a sensor and internals in there. The missing EVF on the top is also a huge advantage in packing things out. I like using Temba BYOB bags 9 & 10 mostly. I started using them to pack out in my hiking backpacks but ended up using them as everyday bags. Not fashionable but simple. I can fit a 70-200 Gii, 20-70, 35GM and the A7cr in a temba 10. Not to mention other stuff, table top tripod, RSS Clamp, filters, battery etc... I could never get all that in with an RV. Trust me I tried. At the end of the day Sony did what Sony does best. They held things back for version 2 and it sucks. But in the meantime the camera is still fantastic and the most versatile I have ever owned. I have been waiting too long for a FF sensor in an APSC body.. For all those on the fence. Rent one, see if it works for you. This camera is light years better than the original A7C. It might surprise you.
Happy Holidays to all. ...Show more →
For me, the difference in size and weight between my A7RV and the A7CR is marginal. For the extra weight and slight increase in size, I gain a much better EVF, a much better LCD screen, and a much better grip. I have big hands, and for my hands, the A7RV is more comfortable to carry. I also get 1 stop better IBIS and one more SD card slot.
Stick them each in a bag with batteries and lenses, and I would defy anyone to guess which held the A7RV and which held the A7CR.
p.6 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
smpetty wrote:
For me, the difference in size and weight between my A7RV and the A7CR is marginal. For the extra weight and slight increase in size, I gain a much better EVF, a much better LCD screen, and a much better grip. I have big hands, and for my hands, the A7RV is more comfortable to carry. Stick them each in a bag with batteries and lenses, and I would defy anyone to guess which held the A7RV and which held the A7CR.
Where are you getting the A7r5 weight from. It is 723gm not 658gm.
Also the weight difference that counts is not in the bag but hanging off your wrist.
p.6 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
I’m sure I’m not typical but I need a compact camera for travel and as a second camera backup.
I already own A1’s (2x) and A7RV but there are times neither of these satisfy the expression “The best camera is the one you have with you” and the compact Sony’s facilitate that for me.
I’m trying to decide if that compact body is the A7CR, A7CII, or the A6700. I’m not a pro these days and video is not a need I have. Each has different strengths and I’m crazy so I am evaluating them all actively. A7CR has a great sensor that is cropable, the A7CII I think has the best low light performance and still higher resolution, and the A6700 packs the smallest but only if you buy APS-C lenses to go with it that add another set of lenses. I much rather buy smaller full frame lenses, if they can be had, to augment my GM and GM II lenses. I will use the smaller GM primes on the A7Cx bodies if it is no bigger than the 35mm f/1.4 GM but those don’t pack as well a I-Series Sigma but they do have better IQ. So I use both.
In the end it’s all about trade-offs and compromise which is different for everyone. There is no perfect solution and those seeking it will fail to get out and shoot. Just my humble opinion.
Even more exciting, if it would be 33mpx resolution! And how about A9Cr with A1 sensor. Not serious... ...just deaming 