p.15 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
macadphotos wrote:
My opinion is that the weight of the a7riv/v is much heavier but better balanced, so you will feel significantly less torque with any lens greater than 500g or longer lenses (like the 24-105mm G). Probably true for the other non-C body.
Have you actually tried this?
Assuming you use the left hand under a long lens, increasing the weight of the camera made it worse, in all cases I tried. This is due to the left hand not gaining any advantage whatsoever (or even having to carry slightly more), while the right hand does not benefit from the extra weight. So you carry more and you fatigue faster. Even for single handed handling shorter lenses extra weight of the camera doesn't seem to improve anything. As the additional weight is near the center of the grip it simply does not counteract rotational torque.
Consider: if using a heavier camera would actually benefit ergonomic handling, there'd be a plethora of cheap weights to attach to your camera to get it up to your "perfect balance". I have never seen such a product.
PS: the reason I carry a heavier camera is because the camera is technically better than the lighter choices and also happens to have a grip better matching the size of my hand. Otherwise I'd prefer a lighter camera.
p.15 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Juha Kannisto wrote:
This is true for Japan with about 52% gap. For me the A7CII was an easy choice as I never wanted to have lots of resolution in the first place and 61MP would be more of a hindrance from my viewpoint.
Much heated and IMHO misguided debate about single vs dual card slots as an indicator of professionality... but ^THIS^ on page 2 is surely on the money. It's not rocket science, but basic economics. The A7C II has consistently been the top seller among all cameras for the past few month, whereas the A7CR has consistently not appeared on the top 10. I suspect that at least 90%, if not 99%, of A7C II buyers are not full time professional photogs. The additional 50% marginal cost (or whatever percentage as applicable in their country) on the A7CR vs the A7C II is an opportunity cost that could otherwise have gone towards paying the mortgage, childcare fees, holiday, etc.
In my case the price difference from Hong Kong grey imports was around GBP 1780 vs GBP 2350. Not quite 50% but still a good chunk which was able to fund a Sigma 50/1.4 DG DN, which in my case is infinitely more valuable than 29 megapixels.
For me an additional nuanced consideration that if I don't need those extra mp anyway, I would rather have cleaner files at high ISO given that I shoot a lot of low light.
FWIW as a one-time semi-pro wedding photographer in the DSLR days, I have NEVER had a card fail on me. Of course any pro will tell you avoiding single points of failure is important with all aspects of your gear.. if having a 2nd card slot gives you peace of mind, go for it. But IME a 2nd body and additional lenses trump everything else as far as weddings are concerned. I have had batteries die, flashes die, bodies die (dreaded Err 99 back in the days of Canon 5D). Strangely, never cards and I haven't done the research but someone will have done the stats.
One time I was standing at the top of a hill trying to shoot a group photo of a wedding party involving some very senior politicians, and it literally broke the lens as the lens mount on my well-seasoned 24-105 L gave way and fell off, rolling down the hill. No eyelids batted, I mounted a new lens, stepped back a little bit to fit everyone back into frame, and continued shooting.
p.15 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Daran wrote:
Have you actually tried this?
Yes I have. Extensively. Between the a7riv and a7cr. The a7rv is heavier than either and I only managed to use it in the showroom for 20min or so. I tested all 3 bodies with the 35mm 1.4GM and the 24-70mmGM, and the a7cr feels slightly imbalanced in both cases. Adding the base plate helps. You are right, this matters mostly for one-handed operation only.
I am using the a7cr and a6700 now (sold the a7riv), so I understand the value of the light compact body. Don't add a base plate if it doesn't improve your handling and causes more fatigue! I was going back and forth to test L plate precisely because I wanted to test for tangible differences from day-long shoots. I should add that increasing the camera's weight does shift the center of gravity towards the camera body, that much is fact. It'll shift more for longer and heavier lenses but the shift might not be enough if you are talking about fast giant telephoto lenses that are secretly baseball bats as well. For pancake lenses, the shift will be insignificant too. The increased camera weight probably works best for lenses in the 400-600g range (my speculation). Also, adding weight to the bottom improves balance even more (thus the L plate).
A 5-10% weight increase in the form of an L plate might make a difference in some cases, YMMV
p.15 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Aztatlan wrote:
Single card slots are awful. SD media is a common enough point of failure that nothing besides the very cheapest of cameras should have a single card slot these days.
Tell that to all the Leica M10 and M10R owners. And Leica Q2 owners.
p.15 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Juha Kannisto wrote:
In Japan A7CII has been selling very well and A7CR not as well due to pricing, as A7CII seems to have been priced strategically for Japan market and is slightly cheaper here than Nikon Zf, and about the same price as Fujifilm X-T5. A7CR on the other hand is relatively expensive in Japan compared to what normal hobbyists are willing to pay. A7RV seems to continue selling better than A7CR even if it remains more expensive. Possibly at that price level, more people are deciding to go for the bigger body with less technical compromises.
A7CII has been the #1 top selling digital interchangeable lens camera at Yodobashi Camera for first half of October, then Zf took #1 spot for 2nd half of October with A7CII at #2, and A7CII was again at #1 for 1st as well as 2nd half of November. Zf disappeared from top 10 list after October since there are no supplies after initial launch and new customers have to wait for ~6 months to get one.
Map had the original A7C as #1 on the used camera sales ranking for the same November period....Show more →
Tha A7CII is a very appealing camera and offers some advantages over the A7Cr and the A7RV.
The A7CII has a better autofocus system than either of the other two cameras: it has 759 PDAF points and 94% coverage versus 693 points and 79% coverage for the other two.
The A7CII also has larger pixels than the other two that should offer some advantage in noise and low-light/high-ISO shooting.
Finally, the lower (but still substantial) resolution speeds up processing both within the camera and in post-processing and increases the sensor readout speed, reducing (but certainly not eliminating) the problems associated with the very slow sensor readout of the A7Cr and the A7RV (rolling shutter, jello effects, LED banding).
The A7CII is a very nice camera. I can easily see someone preferring it to the A7Cr or A7RV.
p.15 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Goodrich wrote:
The absence of a joystick for setting focus and having an A7R2, which is already quite small, have stopped me from buying the A7CR. (I bought an 85mm GM.)
No offense but you need a joystick with the A7r2..You don't with the CR. The AF systems are not in the same league. It's like the pros vs JV high school. Don't get me wrong. I had all the R bodies and I still think Sony had something special with that sensor. But the two AF systems are not even comparable.
p.15 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chiron wrote:
Tha A7CII is a very appealing camera and offers some advantages over the A7Cr and the A7RV.
The A7CII has a better autofocus system than either of the other two cameras: it has 759 PDAF points and 94% coverage versus 693 points and 79% coverage for the other two.
The A7CII also has larger pixels than the other two that should offer some advantage in noise and low-light/high-ISO shooting.
Finally, the lower (but still substantial) resolution speeds up processing both within the camera and in post-processing and increases the sensor readout speed, reducing (but certainly not eliminating) the problems associated with the very slow sensor readout of the A7Cr and the A7RV (rolling shutter, jello effects, LED banding).
The A7CII is a very nice camera. I can easily see someone preferring it to the A7Cr or A7RV.
I rented a CII to compare to my CR. When you spread 66 AF points around the periphery of a sensor I guess that makes it better on paper. But in real world use I did not notice a difference at all. In fact I really was considering it for the "better" low light performance. But even that to be honest I didn't see a big enough difference. At least for me anyway. Not a video guy just speaking for stills.
p.15 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
philip_pj wrote:
But life is all about risk. Can it be quantified here? What is the fail rate of SD cards so we can assess if it's something that is very unlikely or even less of a concern? Really need data, a quick look turned up a load of opinion, which we already have in the form of each of our experiences, plus hearsay. It might be a one in 1000 chance for any particular trip, say. That's OK with me, but I've had E6 MF film cooked in Amritsar and Delhi, in 45 degrees for days on end. That might account for a different perspective.
And why do they fail? Are they 'wearing' out? Is it poor handling to blame? Are these faults in manufacture that are destined to fail soon after first use? All of that plus numerical measures - fail rate, time to fail, mode of fail by mode type. It should be known, obviously. If the industry wanted you to know, of course. ...Show more →
Agree here tha real data is needed. And analysis of the cause o failure. Two card slots is a litigation strategy but how many two card cameras are really used that way instead of one for video and one for stills or even used at all. Are you more likely to drop and break you lens or get in a car accident on the way to the photo shoot. Do you backup your hard drives to off site?
There are just so many factors. Now people want built in storage to mitigate leaving their memory card at home. Is that really a must have? I guess Hassablad thinks so. Maybe because there customers are aging like me.
p.15 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Aztatlan wrote:
Views like this will change quickly when you too suffer a card failure.
Personally I have experienced two SD card failures. Fortunately neither time did I actually lose anything - the first time I had dual cards and the other card was fine. Many great images survived as a result. The other time I had nothing of importance on either card, so the failure was nothing more than a nuisance.
Single card slots are awful. SD media is a common enough point of failure that nothing besides the very cheapest of cameras should have a single card slot these days.
I take it you bring along a spare camera everywhere with you. I’ve had cameras fail on me and have seen numerous cameras dropped into rivers making them unusable.
p.15 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Better bring a spare camera bag with extra spare cameras too in case your main bag with your backup camera goes down too.
Reading photography forums people seem hyper concerned about backups and maintaining all the photos they take for forever. Rather I think people should aim to be comfortable with loss. The photos won't be around forever, it's okay to let them go, we don't need to (and can't) preserve things forever. Remember to enjoy the moments.
chez wrote:
I take it you bring along a spare camera everywhere with you. I’ve had cameras fail on me and have seen numerous cameras dropped into rivers making them unusable.
p.15 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Not really for landscape I would say. Issues or limitations would be with sports, flash and LED stuff. For me I need those abilities so not a cam that I can use.
Without anti -flicker under fluorescent light and flash would be a limitation as well
What it is a nice outdoor type cam with size and weight as primary reasons to buy. 61mpx don’t hurt either and sounds like long lenses maybe an issue for some folks.
p.15 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
It does have anti flicker just FYI.
Obviously it's not an ideal cam for sports or flash photography. But if you shoot 2.8 zooms for sports the high SS won't cause EFCS bokeh issues, you're likely under 1/4000 anyway at 2.8 so almost a wash with A7RV. Neither cam is ideal for sports but definitely works in a pinch, hence the swiss army knife.
I shoot bike racing just a few times a year and I have my 24 1.4 on my a9 and 70-200 on now my a7cr which was previously another a9. The versatility of better video options, hi resolution, and being able to go super compact make it way more versatile than just having another a9.
GMPhotography wrote:
Not really for landscape I would say. Issues or limitations would be with sports, flash and LED stuff. For me I need those abilities so not a cam that I can use.
Without anti -flicker under fluorescent light and flash would be a limitation as well
What it is a nice outdoor type cam with size and weight as primary reasons to buy. 61mpx don’t hurt either and sounds like long lenses maybe an issue for some folks.
p.15 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
GMPhotography wrote:
Not really for landscape I would say. Issues or limitations would be with sports, flash and LED stuff. For me I need those abilities so not a cam that I can use.
Without anti -flicker under fluorescent light and flash would be a limitation as well
What it is a nice outdoor type cam with size and weight as primary reasons to buy. 61mpx don’t hurt either and sounds like long lenses maybe an issue for some folks.
A7Cxx bodies have the same variable shutter and anti flicker settings and capacities as the A7RV does.
p.15 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chez wrote:
I take it you bring along a spare camera everywhere with you. I’ve had cameras fail on me and have seen numerous cameras dropped into rivers making them unusable.
I do, yes. At least, I bring a spare camera everywhere that matters. If I am just out for the day with my family I would not (I may not even bring any camera apart from my phone for such an outing) but if say, traveling overseas - absolutely yes, two bodies always. I will also generally have some overlap in key focal lengths, so for example if traveling on a landscape trip I have more than one wide-angle lens in my bag such that if disaster struck one of them, I have redundancy.) This approach has paid off before. I once slipped on some ice in Yosemite and snapped the 15-30 zoom off my Nikon D810, damaging both lens and camera. I had a Sony A7RII in my bag as well though, and with my Loxia 21 was able to keep shooting wide angle landscapes immediately without issue. Obviously I lost the flexibility of the zoom, but was better than having 35mm as my next-widest lens.
All that being said, there's also an element of easier replacement capability for equipment versus lost images on a failed SD card. Unless traveling to a truly remote region of the world, in most cases you can access a camera store within a few hours drive to replace damaged or failed lenses or cameras if needed. If an SD card fails the photos are gone forever, barring perhaps some luck with a data recovery service (which is not guaranteed to work by any means.)
Uncle Chip wrote:
Are there any disadvantages with the A7cr over the A7rv for landscape photography?
Not for IQ, but for quality of life features yes.
Worse screen/EVF, single card slot, and I think it uses the old articulating screen design (now superseded with the R5) that can cause some issues with L-brackets. I may be wrong on the last point though as I have not handled an A7CR with an L plate installed.
p.15 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Seven good reasons not to buy the A7Cr:
1. Its small size makes it easier for thieves to steal.
2. It is lighter and smaller and therefore less noticeable when you are carrying it. This makes it more likely that you will leave it somewhere without noticing.
3. It has the same number of SD card slots and virtually the same EVF magnification as the Leica M10 and M10R. This is unacceptable for obvious reasons.
4. It is smaller than other cameras and so it is more likely to move around in your camera bag and perhaps will fall out, becoming damaged.
5. Because the parts are so small, repairmen will have a harder time fixing it after it falls.
6. It is lighter than other cameras and will contribute to muscle atrophy. Carrying heavier cameras will improve your muscle tone.
7. The majority of the pictures I've taken with the A7Cr are not really worth looking at and should be deleted.
p.15 #19 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
chiron wrote:
Seven good reasons not to buy the A7Cr:
1. Its small size makes it easier for thieves to steal.
2. It is lighter and smaller and therefore less noticeable when you are carrying it. This makes it more likely that you will leave it somewhere without noticing.
3. It has the same number of SD card slots and virtually the same EVF magnification as the Leica M10 and M10R. This is unacceptable for obvious reasons.
4. It is smaller than other cameras and so it is more likely to move around in your camera bag and perhaps will fall out, becoming damaged.
5. Because the parts are so small, repairmen will have a harder time fixing it after it falls.
6. It is lighter than other cameras and will contribute to muscle atrophy. Carrying heavier cameras will improve your muscle tone.
7. The majority of the pictures I've taken with the A7Cr are not really worth looking at and should be deleted....Show more →
8. People will presume you are a hairdresser 💇
9. Deep down you long for the canon M series
10. It’s a good stop gap till you get the a9iii
11. That guy on the tinternet said it was rubbish (or was it his mum?)
12. If God exists then why would the a7cr be created?
p.15 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
The camera is not to blame. Replace your small and light primes with a good zoom like the Tamron 35-150, and all you problems will go away (certainly the muscle atrophy💪!
chiron wrote:
Seven good reasons not to buy the A7Cr:
1. Its small size makes it easier for thieves to steal.
2. It is lighter and smaller and therefore less noticeable when you are carrying it. This makes it more likely that you will leave it somewhere without noticing.
3. It has the same number of SD card slots and virtually the same EVF magnification as the Leica M10 and M10R. This is unacceptable for obvious reasons.
4. It is smaller than other cameras and so it is more likely to move around in your camera bag and perhaps will fall out, becoming damaged.
5. Because the parts are so small, repairmen will have a harder time fixing it after it falls.
6. It is lighter than other cameras and will contribute to muscle atrophy. Carrying heavier cameras will improve your muscle tone.
7. The majority of the pictures I've taken with the A7Cr are not really worth looking at and should be deleted....Show more →
!