p.14 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Thanks to my insecurities, I was recently back in Sony's showroom to try out the A7RV and compare it to my A7CR.
All I can say about the A7RV is that the overall handling is so nice.... the multi-directional articulating screen (please have it on all future cameras), the huge EVF, the better grip with space for my pinkie, the much quieter mechanical shutter, the better balance with heavier lenses, the joystick, and my toned arm physique after using it for hours. Truly luxurious and a significant step above the A7RIV.
And when I exit the showroom with the A6700, I....
Wait, sorry, that's my A7CR I'm holding onto. it just happens to weigh and feel like a really light APS-C camera.
That's the point, isn't it, to have a compact yet functional A6*** series body that I want to carry everywhere, all the time, which also happens to capture high MP FF photos and has its many charms. Or to have a decked-out high MP powerhouse that has been refined ergonomically for FF lenses over many generations of A7 bodies and such a joy to use.
p.14 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
When I committed to a 5 day hiking trip in the Colorado Rockies this summer I figured it was time to bite the bullet and get the A7cr. This is exactly the niche this camera is made for. At 68 I figure there won't be that many more such trips in my future, I can afford it, so I found a good deal and ordered it.
I also have the A7rV, which I love, but carrying that along with 3 lenses, tripod, small drone, and of course all the other hiking gear, is adding up on my 68 yr. old back. Moderate day hikes it isn't a huge problem (I don't bring my astro lens), one nighters I can do but it is getting tough. On casual hikes that I've done before I often just grab snaps with a phone, or my RX100, and enjoy the moment, but I love the zen of "serious" photography. Then comes the secondary joy of PP when I relive the trip at my computer. I can do so much more with the files from these "real" cameras.
BTW, one of the common complaints is the low quality view finder. Doesn't bother me a bit, even with glasses, but I'm a left eye shooter.
If I could only afford one camera I would go with the cr as a hiker/climber. If I only did shorter hikes or mostly road side the A7rV for sure (I love the flippy screen).
p.14 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
gheller wrote:
Well, *she* will feel utterly ludicrous if (and when) the SINGLE card decides to fail and the "national geographic" shot she was hoping post on the cover is lost without backup.
I can't imagine the slight weight difference between the bodies is *that* significant to warrant the REAL risks involved.
YMMV
This argument about failing SD cards are overblown, imo. Another risk is to lose the camera altogether (either by accidentally dropping it into a lake or similar, or having it stolen). Two cards won't save you then.
p.14 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
I am very close to buying Sony A7CR because I was offered a new one for $750 cheaper. However, it is difficult for me to decide as I already have two Sony A7R4 with a very similar 60 megapixel sensor .Also I accidentally bought dirt cheap and mint Sony A7C with 920 actuations about 6 weeks ago.Thus I have a small camera with an FF sensor too.24 megapixels FF is very good and has a very low noise level at high ISO, which is added value in some situation.
p.14 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
The two card vs one card slot issue is essentially just insurance. Everyone's valuation of risks can be subjective. If I think every one of my photos is worth millions, I'm not just getting dual card slots; I'm paying a team of engineers to make error-proof SD cards that can survive a nuclear blast. Unfortunately, personal anecdotes of card failures are just that, anecdotes. We only hear them because they are the ones worth reporting, i.e., selection bias.
Nevertheless, anecdotes provide useful context that people might not have thought of (like the inconvenience of explaining the loss of images to clients or the time someone spent X dollars to retrieve photos of their firstborn from a corrupted card etc.). I want to hear people's experiences with single vs dual cards slots. Just don't make me feel like I made a wrong choice just cuz I didn't follow a suggestion.
FWIW, I am ok with a single card slot because I don't make million-dollar photos yet... One can hope
p.14 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
macadphotos wrote:
The two card vs one card slot issue is essentially just insurance. Everyone's valuation of risks can be subjective. If I think every one of my photos is worth millions, I'm not just getting dual card slots; I'm paying a team of engineers to make error-proof SD cards that can survive a nuclear blast. Unfortunately, personal anecdotes of card failures are just that, anecdotes. We only hear them because they are the ones worth reporting, i.e., selection bias.
Nevertheless, anecdotes provide useful context that people might not have thought of (like the inconvenience of explaining the loss of images to clients or the time someone spent X dollars to retrieve photos of their firstborn from a corrupted card etc.). I want to hear people's experiences with single vs dual cards slots. Just don't make me feel like I made a wrong choice just cuz I didn't follow a suggestion.
FWIW, I am ok with a single card slot because I don't make million-dollar photos yet... One can hope ...Show more →
Well,I also don't take million-dollar photos,but experienced a few times good quality cards failures,which is very frustrating,as all potentialy interesting pictures taken with significant effort are lost.For me it is a reality,not anecdotes.Therefore I appreciate dual card slots and use cameras with single card slots on more casual occasions,when loosing pictures due to card failure is not that painful.
p.14 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Easy to understand pros on contracted gig having the need, in the same way many back up files each day on the road. In an accumulated 18 months of tough travel in 'never to be seen again' places, I am happy to take this small risk compared with the other risks faced.
But I never had a card fail (CF or SD) so a different experience. I am very careful of all cards, carry them in their cases inside a neat little wallet. It's a pity to make it a no deal issue on a camera you otherwise want.
p.14 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
The absence of a joystick for setting focus and having an A7R2, which is already quite small, have stopped me from buying the A7CR. (I bought an 85mm GM.)
p.14 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Spent some time looking at the specs for the A7cr comparing it to the A1 to see wether it was enough to consider pricking one up for the landscape pack to reduce the weight and footprint. Size wise the only significant diff (to me) was it's height being approximately 1" less. Other dimensions weren't much, again to me. Resolution, yeah it's more but the 50mp of the A1 seems sufficient. Weight was about 1/2 lb lighter. That one did catch my eye. In the end, the A7cr really isn't that smaller to me, and while the 1/2 lb less weight is nice, the advantages of the A1 are still there and it will remain in the landscape pack.
p.14 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
schlotz wrote:
Spent some time looking at the specs for the A7cr comparing it to the A1 to see wether it was enough to consider pricking one up for the landscape pack to reduce the weight and footprint. Size wise the only significant diff (to me) was it's height being approximately 1" less. Other dimensions weren't much, again to me. Resolution, yeah it's more but the 50mp of the A1 seems sufficient. Weight was about 1/2 lb lighter. That one did catch my eye. In the end, the A7cr really isn't that smaller to me, and while the 1/2 lb less weight is nice, the advantages of the A1 are still there and it will remain in the landscape pack....Show more →
Half a pound may not sound like much, but to me the difference is considerable. My previous Sony was the rIV, and the A7CR seems much more compact and lighter. I am still active in my 80s, but weight now does matter. I also limit my lenses, usually to a couple of zooms, but if you are carrying 5 or 6 lenses and other equipment, then the half-pound extra does become almost moot.
If I'm in a situation where I am carrying my camera for long periods of time, I will often limit myself to the CR and the 20-70. You can cover a lot that "limited" combination.
p.14 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Michael Everet wrote:
Half a pound may not sound like much, but to me the difference is considerable. My previous Sony was the rIV, and the A7CR seems much more compact and lighter. I am still active in my 80s, but weight now does matter. I also limit my lenses, usually to a couple of zooms, but if you are carrying 5 or 6 lenses and other equipment, then the half-pound extra does become almost moot.
If I'm in a situation where I am carrying my camera for long periods of time, I will often limit myself to the CR and the 20-70. You can cover a lot that "limited" combination....Show more →
Yes, 1/2 pound is very noticeable when it’s in your hand or around your neck. Putting it into a backpack and not as much, but if you are carrying the extra weight in your hands for a day…you’ll notice the difference.
p.14 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Handling comfort is based on a few factors - weight, balance (torque), grip design, and when handheld, and they affect 1) arm and wrist fatigue 2) palm discomfort when there is uneven pressure distribution, particular near the base of the thumb base and 3) finger grip fatigue. Adding to the complexity is the fact that some people have above or below average palm sizes.
My opinion is that the weight of the a7riv/v is much heavier but better balanced, so you will feel significantly less torque with any lens greater than 500g or longer lenses (like the 24-105mm G). Probably true for the other non-C body.
Between the A6700 and A7CR, the A6700 is surprisingly more comfortable for larger lenses, possibly because of the deeper hand grip. The A7CR really needs a base plate to improve balance and handling with larger lenses. The lightest and smallest I have found so far is the peipro (~50g) and it works wonders by reducing torque and also extending the grip for my pinkie to rest.
p.14 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
macadphotos wrote:
Handling comfort is based on a few factors - weight, balance (torque), grip design, and when handheld, and they affect 1) arm and wrist fatigue 2) palm discomfort when there is uneven pressure distribution, particular near the base of the thumb base and 3) finger grip fatigue. Adding to the complexity is the fact that some people have above or below average palm sizes.
My opinion is that the weight of the a7riv/v is much heavier but better balanced, so you will feel significantly less torque with any lens greater than 500g or longer lenses (like the 24-105mm G). Probably true for the other non-C body.
Between the A6700 and A7CR, the A6700 is surprisingly more comfortable for larger lenses, possibly because of the deeper hand grip. The A7CR really needs a base plate to improve balance and handling. The lightest and smallest I have found so far is the peipro (~50g) and it works wonders by reducing torque and also extending the grip for my pinkie to rest. ...Show more →
These are all good points, but the grip and base plate situation is, like the zoom vs. prime issue, a matter of preference. I tried the base plate that came with the cr, and even though I have large hands, found I preferred carrying the camera without it. The first three fingers hold it, and the pinky slips underneath. I also like the grip on the cr, although I sold my r4 before the cr arrived so I can't compare them.
p.14 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Michael Everet wrote:
These are all good points, but the grip and base plate situation is, like the zoom vs. prime issue, a matter of preference. I tried the base plate that came with the cr, and even though I have large hands, found I preferred carrying the camera without it. The first three fingers hold it, and the pinky slips underneath. I also like the grip on the cr, although I sold my r4 before the cr arrived so I can't compare them.
I didn't like the stock base plate either because it went against the whole compact design. Small-rig's looks quite thick too, so I didn't get it. I've been going back and forth between the Peipro and a naked setup, and comfort level turned out to be very lens-dependent. I use a semi wrist/finger strap setup, where I slip 3 fingers through the strap (It connects from the side to the base) and support the bottom of the camera with my pinkie as well.
That said, please try the naked first! It is such a sleek setup
p.14 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
macadphotos wrote:
Handling comfort is based on a few factors - weight, balance (torque), grip design, and when handheld, and they affect 1) arm and wrist fatigue 2) palm discomfort when there is uneven pressure distribution, particular near the base of the thumb base and 3) finger grip fatigue. Adding to the complexity is the fact that some people have above or below average palm sizes.
My opinion is that the weight of the a7riv/v is much heavier but better balanced, so you will feel significantly less torque with any lens greater than 500g or longer lenses (like the 24-105mm G). Probably true for the other non-C body.
Between the A6700 and A7CR, the A6700 is surprisingly more comfortable for larger lenses, possibly because of the deeper hand grip. The A7CR really needs a base plate to improve balance and handling with larger lenses. The lightest and smallest I have found so far is the peipro (~50g) and it works wonders by reducing torque and also extending the grip for my pinkie to rest. ...Show more →
I personally would not use a lens greater than 500gm with the A7Cr unless I was using a tripod for landscapes. The beauty of the A7cr is it's size and weight and I don't see any real good reason to remove that advantage by putting a heavy lens on it.
p.14 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
jaygould wrote:
This argument about failing SD cards are overblown, imo. Another risk is to lose the camera altogether (either by accidentally dropping it into a lake or similar, or having it stolen). Two cards won't save you then.
Views like this will change quickly when you too suffer a card failure.
Personally I have experienced two SD card failures. Fortunately neither time did I actually lose anything - the first time I had dual cards and the other card was fine. Many great images survived as a result. The other time I had nothing of importance on either card, so the failure was nothing more than a nuisance.
Single card slots are awful. SD media is a common enough point of failure that nothing besides the very cheapest of cameras should have a single card slot these days.
p.14 #19 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
But life is all about risk. Can it be quantified here? What is the fail rate of SD cards so we can assess if it's something that is very unlikely or even less of a concern? Really need data, a quick look turned up a load of opinion, which we already have in the form of each of our experiences, plus hearsay. It might be a one in 1000 chance for any particular trip, say. That's OK with me, but I've had E6 MF film cooked in Amritsar and Delhi, in 45 degrees for days on end. That might account for a different perspective.
And why do they fail? Are they 'wearing' out? Is it poor handling to blame? Are these faults in manufacture that are destined to fail soon after first use? All of that plus numerical measures - fail rate, time to fail, mode of fail by mode type. It should be known, obviously. If the industry wanted you to know, of course.
p.14 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"
Had digital cameras right from the start and never had a card fail,
If I was doing commercial work again I would only use dual slots, back in the day I would use smaller cards to reduce the risk,
For my personal use I have no issues with a single card slot if I get a smaller body as the trade off,
I had a power surge take out my computer and backup drives, I lost every image I had ever taken, and for the icing on this cake the same storm damaged the roof and the water ruined all my prints I had stored in a cupboard that went unnoticed for a month, surprisingly I was only mildly annoyed about the loss, so I think I can cope with a card failure.
