p.48 #1 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
If I sell my Z9 I plan to offer it for the exact price (including tax) that I paid plus the buyer pays shipping to them. That to me is fair. But people can do what they want and it really doesn't bother me as I just look the other way...or make silly comments on their B&S posts
Clarification, Socialism or Communism or Democracy are not tied to free market capitalism. We have examples of all sorts of mixing and matching in history. A classic example is Yugoslavia under Tito's rule.
The comment was was just anti free market capitalism. The political persuasion of these complainers, from my personal observations, come from all points of the political spectrum.
p.48 #3 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
AccessDenied wrote:
Right, I know everyone has a right to turn a profit. But it's frustrating, still.
I won't mention names, but someone I was in contact with online had 5 copies delivered already and he is selling them for 7850 each. He offered me one and said, "that's a good deal compared to eBay". Sure bud.
I'll wait for my preorder.
If something popped up around $6300, that's reasonable - covers 9% tax depending on where you live, plus PayPal fees of ~3%, plus $120 for shipping and insurance.
Another $1500 premium on top of that is a considerable markup.
He flat out said though, "I bought 5 so I could sell 4 and pay for my copy outright"
And he is (or did). Last I heard he only had one left to sell...
In the end, I guess we're all free to do the same thing? It's just not my kind of game...Show more →
How the hell does someone already obtain 5 copies of the Z9 this early in the release?! Wow. Wonder if he is a dealer or has dealer connections.
Capitalism and a moral compass are not mutually exclusive. Have you ever heard of ethics. They are quite the thing in the business world. Throwing terms around you don’t understand is not helpful.
p.48 #5 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
gdsf2 wrote:
Capitalism and a moral compass are not mutually exclusive. Have you ever heard of ethics. They are quite the thing in the business world. Throwing terms around you don’t understand is not helpful.
Love that term "Moral Compass". It's a near extinct manner of being in today's life. Back in my grandfather's time a "handshake" was a contract. People actually respected a person's "word" and commitment. I do this quite often in my business dealings and it near shocks folks but is quickly welcomed. I agree it's a rather horrid business practice to get a whole bunch of anything in very short supply and mess with it to take advantage over others for the pure desire of profit. More so in today's conditions in particular.
p.48 #6 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
RoyC wrote:
Clarification, Socialism or Communism or Democracy are not tied to free market capitalism. We have examples of all sorts of mixing and matching in history. A classic example is Yugoslavia under Tito's rule.
The comment was was just anti free market capitalism. The political persuasion of these complainers, from my personal observations, come from all points of the political spectrum.
Actually, as the person who made the comment, I live and work in a market economy (the US) and would not want it any other way. But within any market economy there are rules people must follow, and ethical constraints many choose to follow. I was expressing my opinion about what I believe is an unethical practice.
p.48 #7 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
I am sensing jealousy .. missed opportunities to make some cash. Oh well, let them sell for a profit, let others buy if they want. Why malign enterprising FM-ers, with socialistic BS and just because you didn't have the guts to do the same?
p.48 #8 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
saaketham wrote:
I am sensing jealousy .. missed opportunities to make some cash. Oh well, let them sell for a profit, let others buy if they want. Why malign enterprising FM-ers, with socialistic BS and just because you didn't have the guts to do the same?
Do you think scalping during a shortage is something new or innovative? No, any of us could have done it. We choose not to because we believe it is unethical. I am not sure why this is a hard concept for you. I guess you just don’t share my ethical beliefs. In that case, I would never want to do business with you.
Oh, and learn what the definition of socialism is before you use it again. It has nothing to do with the current context. You sound ignorant.
p.48 #9 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Why are you calling fellow FM-ers unethical, lacking moral compass, etc? Those are pure personal attacks, since we all know who has listed z9 bodies for higher than MSRP. Their actions are not hurting you, so why are you attacking them?
p.48 #10 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
saaketham wrote:
Why are you calling fellow FM-ers unethical, lacking moral compass, etc? Those are pure personal attacks, since we all know who has listed z9 bodies for higher than MSRP. Their actions are not hurting you, so why are you attacking them?
Go back and read my original post. There is no personal attack. I stated my opinion on the practice. I also said folks are free to do what they want. You actually attacked me by saying my post was hypocritical. You blew this up from a single post where I shared my opinion to a personal attack.
And, you implied I was a socialist simply because I shared my views on ethics.
Anyway…I am done on this topic. I do not wish to debate it. I never did. I just stated my opinion.
p.48 #11 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Price is but one component of an ethical deal. As long as it is posted without false claim, along with the other terms of the transaction such as condition, payment methods, and shipping, I see no ethical issues in asking whatever the seller wants to. In cases such as these time is a component that a buyer can value for himself. It may be worth it to him to pay the premium. No one else can make a judgement on this. Doing so is hubris.
Keep in mind that we are not discussing a critical commodity here such as a life saving medicine, or food in a famine. Those are the type of situations where profiteering stretches the moral boundaries. The total context of the transaction must be considered before passing such harsh judgement.
p.48 #12 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
1bwana1 wrote:
Price is but one component of an ethical deal. As long as it is posted without false claim, along with the other terms of the transaction such as condition, payment methods, and shipping, I see no ethical issues in asking whatever the seller wants to. In cases such as these time is a component that a buyer can value for himself. It may be worth it to him to pay the premium. No one else can make a judgement on this. Doing so is hubris.
Keep in mind that we are not discussing a critical commodity here such as a life saving medicine, or food in a famine. Those are the type of situations where profiteering stretches the moral boundaries. The total context of the transaction must be considered before passing such harsh judgement. ...Show more →
Thank you for your thoughts. I disagree. But see no need to explain once again.
And I certainly did not pass harsh judgement. I shared my opinion on a practice and was clear that no rules were being broken and folks could do what they want.
p.48 #13 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
gdsf2 wrote:
Thank you for your thoughts. I disagree. But see no need to explain once again.
And I certainly did not pass harsh judgement. I shared my opinion on a practice and was clear that no rules were being broken and folks could do what they want.
Does anybody read anymore?
You are welcome. They are just my thoughts on the subject. My reading is fine. They were not directed at you, or anyone in particular. If they were I would have quoted the post specifically.
p.48 #14 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
gdsf2 wrote:
Actually, as the person who made the comment, I live and work in a market economy (the US) and would not want it any other way. But within any market economy there are rules people must follow, and ethical constraints many choose to follow. I was expressing my opinion about what I believe is an unethical practice.
Language matters.
If you would check back carefully you will note that my comment was NOT in relation to your comment.
p.48 #15 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Scalping is pretty much always unethical. Many businesses have policies against scalping even though they usually don't bother to enforce due to the hassle involved. I'm pretty sure if you ask Nikon whether they condone scalping, they will tell you no and not to buy the camera before others. And that has nothing to do with capitalism or communism. I would imagine it happened frequently too in Soviet Union times.
Voicing opinion about said behavior, and in derivation the associated scalpers, is a fair game. That's no different than voicing opinions on Biden or Trump.
p.48 #16 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
gdsf2 wrote:
Go back and read my original post. There is no personal attack. I stated my opinion on the practice. I also said folks are free to do what they want. You actually attacked me by saying my post was hypocritical.
It is not any more unethical than the stock manipulation that every hedge fund and bank that plays on Wall Street does daily, the exorbitant charges in healthcare industry, the outrageous hourly fees charged by lawyers, the ridiculous markup of luxury brand items such as handbags.
Personally, I would like to buy a BNIB z9 for under $6000. But asking higher prices for high-demand-low-supply items is nothing new. While being disappointed about the high asking prices, I am ok with waiting a few more months for used z9 bodies to show up lower than $5500. It is not an essential commodity that I need to live.
I only mentioned socialism because of one of your earlier comments "don't send me nasty socialist comments". I found it funny that you said that, while complaining about a phenomenon that occurs daily in a free market economy. If you felt I personally attacked you, I apologize. 🙏🏼
p.48 #17 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
I heard from a non-NPS B&H order that his Z9 is expected this Thursday. So seems Nikon is providing a fairly regular stream of Z9s to dealers. So much for the October 2022 FUD
p.48 #20 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
I am not NPS, ordered from B&H, confirmation at 8:06am on 10/28. Checked with B&H today, standard answer that they have no ETA for next shipment from manufacturer for Nikon Z9 yet. Still waiting...
