p.11 #1 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
1bwana1 wrote:
Complete nonsense. Think about it, look around you. The World is full of examples in almost every product category where the replacement of mechanical components with electronic and digital components has resulted in more capabilities, reliability, durability, lower maintenance and longevity. Even more so in complex system like cameras.
Beyond those benefits, a large reduction in moving parts almost always results in lower maintenance, durability, and longevity in products. Now that is a basic design tenant.
Oh, and by the way, The whole mirror system requires both more mechanical and electronic parts and sensors than a mirrorless system does. Look at the diagrams in the article I linked to previously.Your position fails on the basis of your own arguments....Show more →
why are you claiming reliability of milc if you have acknowledged the design has not been around long enough to address reliability?
the creative solutions to manage heat in cell phones and laptops are evidences that heat is major concern in consumer electronics.
sure, replacing mechanical parts with electronic will increase reliability, but there is a tradeoff.
p.11 #2 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
This of course makes 'absolutely' no sense.
Those with LOTS of Nikon gear are (usually) more concerned about impending doom (Your words... Not mine).
That is why we have already seen comments on the Forum from Nikon Shooters who are concerned about the 'declining' value of their Nikon F-Mount Lenses (*Such as the Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 800mm f/5.6E FL ED VR Lens).
--
This of course, is because, it would obviously take a lot more Time, Energy and Financial $$$ to replace a 'Complete' Nikon System...
Instead of just a mere, few Camera Bodies and Lenses.
--
Less equipment, actually means greater flexibility and 'LESS' worry or concern...
If one should ever decide and/or need to change Camera Systems or even switch over to Mirrorless from DSLR (within the same Ecosystem).
~~ “The Less You Have, The Less You Have To Worry About.” ~~
guess what, it is the longevity and maturity of the dslr which allowed the design to be disected and analyzed.
have you ever experienced a failure with the mirror mechanism of your dlsr? or do you just upgrade too quickly to recognize and appreciate the robustness of the dlsr systems.
i've inherited beaten up old slr gear and they still shoot film reliably. and the mirror mechanism in dslr have its foundation from slr gear. so the mechanism has been refined over the years.
not sure if the same can he said for milc tech at this point.
p.11 #3 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
you are right it is a gear forum. maybe for you it is for many its not. whether you like it or not there are only a few "players" here. for the most part we are aware of the financials as they are delivered via various sites. it seems not to be affecting those who shoot because they will continuously shot and create images.
to those who whish to continue this pointlessness have fun wasting time. to those who wish to actually deal with photography walk away. you have to admit it is the same old thing going nowhere.
p.11 #4 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
tntcorp wrote:
not sure if the same can he said for milc tech at this point.
Finally we agree on what I, and others have been saying. We don't yet have the data to determine whether mirrorless or DSLR have different longevity profiles. Only time will give us that data. Currently it is just speculation when one takes one side or the other.
p.11 #5 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
1bwana1 wrote:
Finally we agree on what I, and others have been saying. We don't yet have the data to determine whether mirrorless or DSLR have different longevity profiles. Only time will give us that data. Currently it is just speculation when one takes one side or the other.
it's not speculation with dslr given sufficient data points to analyze.
p.11 #6 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
chambeshi wrote:
Contrary to the doomsayers, there is abundant evidence Nikon knows what it's up to. Notwithstanding the technical data and snippets revealed in the occasional interviews, and a few of the many leaks (many of which are false); to paraphrase the late Steve Gould, we Nikon clients can only "see through a lens darkly". The traditions of their Japanese cultural approach to business and the tech industry presents many opaque/shuttered windows. We run up against these frustrations in only glimpses of information - so guessing at future gear, especially with Nikon's marketing being mediocre etc.... But Nikon say repeatedly they are committed to both F and Z systems. ...Show more →
I agree in terms of Nikon engineering, they've continued to do great work. I disagree massively in the case of Nikon marketing.
Nikon engineering keeps delivering excellent designs, when there's gaps it's clearly in the initial product spec (which usually would come from marketing). That's where things like no grips & single card slots come from. And even then it's usually perceptual items rather than things that really impact most users (for example, given relative card failure rates, single XQD is actually more reliable than dual SD)
Nikon marketing keeps failing spectacularly. The Z5 launch is the poster child for this. They sent out a press release. They didn't even manage to send it to everyone on their normal distribution. A couple big stores got samples, but no Ambassadors or reviewers did until around a month after announcement. This for a relatively lower-end release that was sandwiched between two major high-end releases (Canon's R5/R6 and Sony's A7SIII). They didn't even manage to get the trade-in promo info out until a week later. Suprise, surprise, there's widespread reports that the Z5 pre-orders were low. Of couse they were, barely anybody knew about it and there was zero buzz. And this for a camera that should be setting sales on fire notionally. It's by far the best FF body for the dollar on the market right now.
Contrast this with either of the competing releases, or better yet the S5 announcement last week. That's an overpriced, underwhelming stills camera (it's a much better value as a video camera though) and yet everybody was talking about it. There were dozens of videos up the moment it was announced showing Lumix ambassadors and major influencers using it. And yet as a stills camera is $600 more than the Z5 for mostly lower specs.
p.11 #7 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
This of course makes 'absolutely' no sense.
Those with LOTS of Nikon gear are (usually) more concerned about impending doom (Your words... Not mine).
That is why we have already seen comments on the Forum from Nikon Shooters who are concerned about the 'declining' value of their Nikon F-Mount Lenses (*Such as the Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 800mm f/5.6E FL ED VR Lens).
--
This of course, is because, it would obviously take a lot more Time, Energy and Financial $$$ to replace a 'Complete' Nikon System...
Instead of just a mere, few Camera Bodies and Lenses.
--
Less equipment, actually means greater flexibility...Show more →
____
tntcorp wrote:
guess what, it is the longevity and maturity of the dslr which allowed the design to be disected and analyzed.
have you ever experienced a failure with the mirror mechanism of your dlsr? or do you just upgrade too quickly to recognize and appreciate the robustness of the dlsr systems.
i've inherited beaten up old slr gear and they still shoot film reliably. and the mirror mechanism in dslr have its foundation from slr gear. so the mechanism has been refined over the years.
not sure if the same can he said for milc tech at this point.
"less is more if the less has been proven"...Show more →
Guess what?
You were so anxious... To try to get your DSLR vs. MILC 'longevity' viewpoint across in this Thread with 1bwana1...
That you posted your message reply to the wrong poster!
'Neither' Lance B or myself, were discussing longevity or maturity of the DSLR, DSLR robustness,
Mirror Mechanisms or even MILC etc. No problem...
"We now take you back to our regularly scheduled programming."
p.11 #8 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
sjms wrote:
to those who whish to continue this pointlessness have fun wasting time. to those who wish to actually deal with photography walk away. you have to admit it is the same old thing going nowhere.
No disrespect Steve...
But, it would 'appear' that some people have more time to waste than others:
That is very conflicted post you make. One of the rare times I think one of your posts is not well thought out and expressed.
First saying there is ample evidence that Nikon knows what it is up to, then follow it with a whole post explaining why Nikon culture keeps us from knowing what is going on. Hard to have purposely hidden "ample evidence".
I agree with mawz. No company would knowingly and purposely navigate itself into the the loss of market share, financial, and reputational difficulties that Nikon is now experiencing. The financial and market share debacles are not difficult to see and there are no 'dark lenses" there. It is all undeniable, and public knowledge. There is much ample evidence in this area.
p.11 #10 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
____
Guess what?
You were so anxious... To try to get your DSLR vs. MILC 'longevity' viewpoint across in this Thread with 1bwana1...
That you posted your message reply to the wrong poster!
'Neither' Lance B or myself, were discussing longevity or maturity of the DSLR, DSLR robustness,
Mirror Mechanisms or even MILC etc. No problem...
"We now take you back to our regularly scheduled programming."
aah yes, my bad.
you posted a video from an utuber who's playing armchair qb. back to the rumor mill programming. ;')
p.11 #11 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
No disrespect Steve...
But, it would 'appear' that some people have more time to waste than others:
>> Total Posts: 30149 <<
and all are for the most part about photography as in the art and science not the business of.
yes, it is amazing how i have worked over the years dual income and currently rethinking how i'm going to finish off. my life is good and still had time to write here. All those S&S msgs
p.11 #13 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
sjms wrote:
and all are for the most part about photography as in the art and science not the business of.
yes, it is amazing how i have worked over the years dual income and currently rethinking how i'm going to finish off. my life is good.
I hear you...
It is always really NICE to have the opportunity to spend more in artistic endeavors (such as Photography)...
Instead of having to worry about business and/or how to earn a living.
p.11 #14 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
It is always really NICE to have the opportunity to spend more in artistic endeavors (such as Photography)...
Instead of having to worry about business and/or how to earn a living.
"GOOD Stuff!"
I don’t call my work truly “artistic” which of course is a matter of taste. They are observations with stories attached.
p.11 #17 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).
Takira71A wrote:
Imho... Those with LOTS of Nikon gear are (usually) more concerned about impending doom (Your words... Not mine).
That is why we have already seen some comments on the FM Forum from Nikon Shooters who are concerned about the 'declining' value of their Nikon F-Mount Lenses (*Such as the Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 800mm f/5.6E FL ED VR Lens).
--
This of course, is because, it would obviously take a lot more Time, Energy and Financial $$$ to replace a 'Complete' Nikon System...
Instead of just a mere, few Camera Bodies and Lenses.
--
Less equipment, actually means greater flexibility and 'LESS' worry or concern...
If one should ever decide and/or need to change Camera Systems or even switch over to Mirrorless from DSLR (within the same Ecosystem).
~~ “The Less You Have, The Less You Have To Be Worried About.” ~~
I rest my case:
"It seems to me the interest in Nikon's future and well being is inveresely proportionate to the amount of gear you own." You seem to be one of the ones with the most interested here, the less you have.
As for those concerned about the value of their F mounts deteriorating, that is simply becasue of the drying up camera market, the rise of Nikon Mirrorless and Covid, nothing else. But then, who are these people? You need to point out *many* not just one or two or even a few that may post here.
The more gear you have seems to be those that are least concerned that is why they keep buying more Nikon gear. I am still buying plenty as are most of the level headed contributors here.
As for your claim that people with less gear (obviously Nikon DSLR gear) could swich over to Mirrorless in the same ecosystem, that would mean Nikon DSLR owners buying into the supposed sinking ship of Nikon Mirrorless. That just doesn't make sense.
