p.56 #1 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
rvh23 wrote:
Maybe I've missed it but I haven't seen anything interesting from Zeiss (for Sony E) since the Loxia 25, which is quite a while ago now. They seem instead to be focusing on high $$$ cine and industrial lenses now and appear to have abandoned 'regular' shooters. My suspicion is that it's because they no longer have the IQ advantage they once had over the competition.
And yes, this camera is pure marketing nonsense that was DOA. They seem to have jumped the shark with this one.
Zeiss seems to be heavy into smart phone optics these last few years and of course still a strong supplier to the Cinema industry. Sony seems to have hit their optics stride and then some with their latest GM technology and with so many affordable 3rd party alternatives, I do wonder what Zeiss could bring to emount that would generate enough buyers/revenue at a price point that makes sense for Zeiss.
Personally, I don't miss Zeiss lenses, as I see the Zeiss logo etched on my Zeiss specs every time I put them on. Zeiss Micro Contrast all day long! 😎
I haven't looked for a while. Zeiss seems to be doing extremely well otherwise.
p.56 #2 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
I know it’s very much a preference issue, and not everybody sees/values optical output the same way, but I have a pretty strong preference for Zeiss colors and microcontrast over about anything on the market. At their best, Zeiss’ more recent consumer lenses like the ZM 35/1.4, Loxia 85 or 21 or Batis 18 render with an acuity and richness that goes beyond sheer sharpness to my eyes.
Having shot many makers, the Batis 18 and Loxia 21 I thought rendered photos preferentially over the Sony G20 or Sigma 14-24 or Tamron 17-28, but I don’t think a lot of people will pay a premium for that. Which I think that’s why Zeiss has largely abandoned the field. That, and over the last 25 years, they just don’t seem to integrate tech as well as a lot of the bigger makers. Seems like it’s always an uphill battle for them.
p.56 #3 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
LBJ2 wrote:
Zeiss seems to be heavy into smart phone optics these last few years and of course still a strong supplier to the Cinema industry. Sony seems to have hit their optics stride and then some with their latest GM technology and with so many affordable 3rd party alternatives, I do wonder what Zeiss could bring to emount that would generate enough buyers/revenue at a price point that makes sense for Zeiss.
Personally, I don't miss Zeiss lenses, as I see the Zeiss logo etched on my Zeiss specs every time I put them on. Zeiss Micro Contrast all day long! 😎
I haven't looked for a while. Zeiss seems to be doing extremely well otherwise.
From the report:
"The market for cine lenses developed very moderately again in fiscal year 2020/21, as almost all film productions worldwide came to a halt in the course of the pandemic and have not yet been fully resumed. From a long-term perspective, the uninterrupted demand will have a positive effect. By contrast, the market for camera lenses shrank significantly and irreversibly, mainly as a result of increasing smartphone photography. ... ZEISS counters this by expanding its strategic partnerships for mobile imaging. Despite growth in the market for cine lenses, increased competitive pressure is expected due to the entry of new competitors from Asia."
p.56 #4 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
The wheels started wobbling on the CZ management car about ten years back. They abandoned all pretence at producing new full ranges, except for Milvus which was an ill-fated end-of-DSLR effort. Even that had some remodelled lenses.
The f1.4 Milvuses and the last Otuses should scotch any notions of others catching up however, for *photographic* purposes and the Zeiss look. As if it was a measure in the first place, like your bank account. These are magnificent lenses, some are likely to be 'best ever' optics, up there with the SL lenses.
In particular, the 35/1.4 and Otus 100/1.4, 28/1.4. To my vision, the CZ colour model has always been better than that of Leica, with greater subtlety and photorealism and tonal depiction. It's simply that these qualities are not valued as highly as some other new age features people desire. So that is what we lost in the narrowing of the modern age.
Even in the older days of the late 20C, they were never significantly interested in commercial market success, no MF lens maker could be. So they simply produced their best efforts and whatever happened, happened. I like that about them. Sounds like an obit, doesn't it? But their place in history cannot be erased, among the cognoscenti at least.
p.56 #5 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
philip_pj wrote:
The wheels started wobbling on the CZ management car about ten years back. They abandoned all pretence at producing new full ranges, except for Milvus which was an ill-fated end-of-DSLR effort. Even that had some remodelled lenses.
The f1.4 Milvuses and the last Otuses should scotch any notions of others catching up however, for *photographic* purposes and the Zeiss look. As if it was a measure in the first place, like your bank account. These are magnificent lenses, some are likely to be 'best ever' optics, up there with the SL lenses.
In particular, the 35/1.4 and Otus 100/1.4, 28/1.4. To my vision, the CZ colour model has always been better than that of Leica, with greater subtlety and photorealism and tonal depiction. It's simply that these qualities are not valued as highly as some other new age features people desire. So that is what we lost in the narrowing of the modern age.
Even in the older days of the late 20C, they were never significantly interested in commercial market success, no MF lens maker could be. So they simply produced their best efforts and whatever happened, happened. I like that about them. Sounds like an obit, doesn't it? But their place in history cannot be erased, among the cognoscenti at least. ...Show more →
Fair enough. But that doesn’t explain the idiocy that led to the ZX1 fiasco.
p.56 #8 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
philip_pj wrote:
The wheels started wobbling on the CZ management car about ten years back. They abandoned all pretence at producing new full ranges, except for Milvus which was an ill-fated end-of-DSLR effort. Even that had some remodelled lenses.
The Milvus 50 Makro Planar is the exact same lens optically as the previous one, but almost double the size as the lens case had to match the new design look. The 35 1.4 and 50 1.4 were improved optically. The Milvus line should have been AF to go against Sigma Art lenses.
p.56 #9 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
We need a real successor to RX1Rii, and it doesn't need to be from Sony. Q2 is not an alternative. It's much heavier and larger. ZX1 isn't smaller nor does it have better image quality.
p.56 #11 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
gordec wrote:
We need a real successor to RX1Rii, and it doesn't need to be from Sony. Q2 is not an alternative. It's much heavier and larger. ZX1 isn't smaller nor does it have better image quality.
Only way I'd go for a fixed lens camera today is if it had a medium format sensor.
p.56 #12 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
genji wrote:
At this point even I can’t muster up the energy to write another anti-ZX1 post.
A somewhat cheaper and better and maybe a bit smaller Leica Q was really all that was needed.
Instead they went for an impractical lifestyle statement for people with more money than brains.
chez wrote:
Only way I'd go for a fixed lens camera today is if it had a medium format sensor.
The only way I could see that working well would be if the sensor was curved.
Medium format doesnt need compact cameras, because they wouldnt be compact and on medium format you can get the advantage of central shutter in the lens anyway.
p.56 #13 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Sauseschritt wrote:
Medium format doesnt need compact cameras, because they wouldnt be compact and on medium format you can get the advantage of central shutter in the lens anyway.
Would you not be interested in a high quality medium format camera + 2.8 lens combo the size of say an α7 C + a compact G series prime? One that had stabilization, linear motors, etc?
I might rather opt in for a 35mm format f2 fixed lens combo myself for the greater intensity of light making AF easier on the camera—and it might be a hard choice between that and a 1.4 aps-c fixed lens combo (should we ever be so lucky to have so much choice in the matter) depending on how meaningful the intensity gap of 2 and 2.8 would be, but I can't deny the potential appeal of a medium format fixed lens combo the size of what is currently extreme compact for an ILC.
No assumptions as to how old you might be, but growing up shooting film the dream was always to go for something like a Plaubel Makina 67. While you can get equivalence of DoF and angle of view on smaller formats you always have to push harder to get the same amount of quality that comes with a larger sensor's more generous total sensor size and pixel pitch. The same amount of residual SA that might be tolerable to IQ on a 35mm format sensor could be barely noticeable on larger formats and downright distracting on an aps-c frame, etc. While I would draw the line at anything I buy needing to work in winter here, and anything I buy needing to work as an all day carry (f2 fixed lens medium format probably wouldn't work) I think a f2.8 medium format fixed lens compact would really be a unique product on the market.
p.56 #14 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
JVan_02 wrote:
I think a f2.8 medium format fixed lens compact would really be a unique product on the market.
First question would be: what kind of medium format are we talking about?
If it is Fullframe+ (44x33mm) I hardly see any appeal for a fixed f/2.8 compact considering we have already something like the RX1 and Q series.
p.56 #15 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
BastianK wrote:
First question would be: what kind of medium format are we talking about?
If it is Fullframe+ (44x33mm) I hardly see any appeal for a fixed f/2.8 compact considering we have already something like the RX1 and Q series.
So, unique: yes. Useful? Not so sure about that.
Well, we could scale things as needed. At a 44 x 33 size, perhaps we could get a 2.4 fixed compact to reach the equivalence I was talking about. I'd hope though, with the possibility of a curved sensor only really making sense in a fixed lens compact (you'd need to change the curve for each lens if you really wanna optimize the hell out of it) and Sony's recent history of shrinking lenses that we could really reach a full fat MF equivalence.
Would you rather have a crop MF 40mm f2.4 the size of an α7 C + compact G series or a direct successor to the rx1r ii? Keep in mind, if you keep the Sonnar you're stuck with unit focus for the lens and I don't know if they have the room to optically stabilize that lens. It's exceptionally svelte.
p.56 #16 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Do these sell used anywhere? I see no transactions on eBay. Adorama has a bunch of open box units for $4399 (they are $5999 new). I’d bet my life that those are new units marked “open box” to get around minimum advertised price terms from Zeiss.
Thought I might be able to pick one up real cheap to check out, but I can’t find any indication of market value on the secondary market.
So… if none sell used, as none were sold new, what are they worth?
Maybe this will be Zeiss’ FTX moment and undoing. They’re probably engaging in all kinds of shady behavior to hide their huge ZX1 losses on their balance sheet. Ha ha…
p.56 #18 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
JVan_02 wrote:
Would you not be interested in a high quality medium format camera + 2.8 lens combo the size of say an α7 C + a compact G series prime? One that had stabilization, linear motors, etc?
Have I mentioned that I absolutely hate Sony cameras ? Because I am convinced they arent made for human hands ?
Well, maybe a folding camera with rangefinder and manual focus and unit focusing, as they've been done with film. Those could still get quite compact with film and so they could get even more compact with digital (because of the smaller sensor compared to film).
BastianK wrote:
First question would be: what kind of medium format are we talking about?
If it is Fullframe+ (44x33mm) I hardly see any appeal for a fixed f/2.8 compact considering we have already something like the RX1 and Q series.
So, unique: yes. Useful? Not so sure about that.
Well, first we would have to invent a technology that allows to create large sensors cheaply.
Then we could talk about compact cameras with sensors larger than 44x33mm.
Because I would figure the market for compact cameras which cost as much as a house is simply - zero.
Though honestly if we could get large sensors cheaply, obviously I would want a proper 8x10 inch field camera instead.
darrellc wrote:
Maybe this will be Zeiss’ FTX moment and undoing. They’re probably engaging in all kinds of shady behavior to hide their huge ZX1 losses on their balance sheet. Ha ha…
Err ... Zeiss is a huge and extremely successful company since over a century. But especially they dont make much of their money with consumer photography. I dont think there is any chance for anything to happen to Zeiss. They clearly deinvested recently on consumer photography (i.e. no new lenses since years by now) and this one pet project of theirs isnt going to actually hurt them, even if it will probably grossly underperform.
p.56 #19 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Recently Map Camera tweeted that ZX1 had arrived and is apparently getting launched in Japan market but launch date was not yet announced.
They are certainly making it all very mysterious! Maybe they'll just send a copy or two to the Zeiss museum and scrap the entire rest of the launch?
p.56 #20 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
In business, you are only as good as your recent performances. With apologies to Jimmy Webb:
Carl Zeiss is melting in the dark
All the sweet, fine optics flowing down
Someone left the business out in the rain
I don't think that they can take it
'Cause it took so long to bake it
And they'll never have that recipe again.
It's over. CZ is part of a great photographic history, one their current managers have despoiled with stupidity. They went big when the industry went small. Then they took their bat and ball and went home.
