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Canon r1 official announcement.

  
 
ilkka_nissila
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p.10 #1 · p.10 #1 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Choderboy wrote:
I get it (that FD 400 was released over 40 years ago).
Sony joining the game decades later, as you say, was what seemed ridiculous to me about mention of the 1981 Canon release.


Sony bought Konica-Minolta's camera division which at the time had, e.g., 300/2.8, 400/4.5, 500 mm reflex, and 600/4. Among other things Sony acquired expertise to make such lenses. However, Minolta didn't have as extensive range of long lenses as Canon and Nikon did. I am not sure what AnotherMike had in mind, but Sony/Konica-Minolta/Minolta didn't and don't have as extensive experience on this segment of lenses as Canon does, and the availability of second hand lenses makes it easier to get started on long lenses with the Canon (or Nikon) long lens ecosystems. Yes, the newest lenses are the best, but often at very high cost for the higher-end lens types. Often it is the most practical to choose a brand which has at the time the products you need and then use it for a long time rather than dump systems and buy new ones frequently, losing a lot of money at each swap, and only gaining a temporary advantage in one area (and probably some disadvantages in other areas).


The concept of having an attachment to a brand and feeling the need to defend them, let alone defend them with ridiculous arguments is very, very strange IMHO.


It is also very strange to buy and sell gear and entire systems just because one brand has an advantage in one area for the moment, only to realize that another brand has an even better solution for that a couple of years later, and then a third repeats the advantage, each time wasting potentially tens of thousands of dollars just to get a temporary advantage in one area, and to sniff new gear. This forum seems to have a lot of such people and it's the most ridiculous thing ever.

What is gained by sticking to one brand for a long time? You learn the user interface deeply and instinctively always know what to do, how to get the result because of intimate familiarity with the way things are done in a particular brand's equipment. There is a continuity in performance and optical rendering across models within the brand's lineup of products, so one can maintain a consistent style and knows what to expect in a new product. You don't waste money brand-hopping and so you can actually a broader set of lenses since 30%+ of the money is not flushed down the toilet in brand and product swaps. This way, over a longer time span, one can acquire a set of specialist tools for various photographic applications. If one feels the need to swap 600/4's for a new one every year or so, along with camera body (bodies) then all the money goes into that and other subjects that aren't covered by a 600 mm lens don't get appropriate gear. This may be fine if one is happy to just photograph one subject over and over again, but photography of varied subject matter and using different approaches, optical and other, can be interesting and enjoyable. The great paradox with brand-hopping is that by gaining in one area one typically loses in other areas of system performance or features (if not immediately, a few years down the road), and the only thing that is guaranteed is the loss of money. Not appreciating the significance of these financial losses may be fine for the 1% or 0.1% but for the rest they do matter. And so because there are people who stick to a brand, to save money over the long term and gain from the familiarity and trust advantages, they do tend to defend the brand online, when those who are willing to spend a lot for temporary gains think everyone should follow their spendy ways and are very vocal about it.



May 20, 2024 at 06:20 AM
Choderboy
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p.10 #2 · p.10 #2 · Canon r1 official announcement.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
Sony bought Konica-Minolta's camera division which at the time had, e.g., 300/2.8, 400/4.5, 500 mm reflex, and 600/4. Among other things Sony acquired expertise to make such lenses. However, Minolta didn't have as extensive range of long lenses as Canon and Nikon did. I am not sure what AnotherMike had in mind, but Sony/Konica-Minolta/Minolta didn't and don't have as extensive experience on this segment of lenses as Canon does, and the availability of second hand lenses makes it easier to get started on long lenses with the Canon (or Nikon) long lens ecosystems. Yes, the newest lenses are the best,
...Show more

I assume you are not referring to me with "buy and sell gear and entire systems" ?




May 20, 2024 at 06:56 AM
Sy Sez
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p.10 #3 · p.10 #3 · Canon r1 official announcement.




They seem to have done Ok. The lens mount size is less important than either Canon or Nikon would have you believe, though there are some small advantages. The short flange distance can negate most of the problems that the smaller mount can do. With that said, it does give Canon and Nikon a little more flexibility in their lens designs.


I'd rather they had kept the smaller mount, whatever the minor disadvantages, and that my RF 100-500 could zoom fully back with a TC attached.



May 20, 2024 at 08:52 AM
robert_in_ca
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p.10 #4 · p.10 #4 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Granted some people do jump to different systems, thinking it will make them a better photographer. However, contrary to your ridiculous statement some people, including myself, like to try out different gear because itís apart of the hobby. I never understood why people like you care to make a point to ridicule what other people choose to do with their money.

ilkka_nissila wrote:
Sony bought Konica-Minolta's camera division which at the time had, e.g., 300/2.8, 400/4.5, 500 mm reflex, and 600/4. Among other things Sony acquired expertise to make such lenses. However, Minolta didn't have as extensive range of long lenses as Canon and Nikon did. I am not sure what AnotherMike had in mind, but Sony/Konica-Minolta/Minolta didn't and don't have as extensive experience on this segment of lenses as Canon does, and the availability of second hand lenses makes it easier to get started on long lenses with the Canon (or Nikon) long lens ecosystems. Yes, the newest lenses are the best,
...Show more


Edited on May 22, 2024 at 10:08 AM · View previous versions



May 20, 2024 at 08:54 AM
Jman13
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p.10 #5 · p.10 #5 · Canon r1 official announcement.




I'd rather they had kept the smaller mount, whatever the minor disadvantages, and that my RF 100-500 could zoom fully back with a TC attached.


I mean, the 100-500 TC design isn't a mount design issue, but just the way Canon designed that lens. The Nikon Z mount is similar in diameter, with an even shorter flange distance, and yet the 180-600mm can take a TC with no impact on the zoom range (as can the 100-400).



May 20, 2024 at 09:20 AM
garyvot
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p.10 #6 · p.10 #6 · Canon r1 official announcement.




I mean, the 100-500 TC design isn't a mount design issue, but just the way Canon designed that lens. The Nikon Z mount is similar in diameter, with an even shorter flange distance, and yet the 180-600mm can take a TC with no impact on the zoom range (as can the 100-400).


Yes.

I am actually a fan of the RF 70-200 2.8L redesign. It's way more compact and much lighter than my EF 70-200 f/2.8L II. I even will carry it for travel, something I would be hard pressed doing with the older lens. For me, that's a decent tradeoff.

For the 100-500 though, I think the odd limitation with TCs is harder to justify.



May 20, 2024 at 10:00 AM
molson
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p.10 #7 · p.10 #7 · Canon r1 official announcement.


garyvot wrote:
For the 100-500 though, I think the odd limitation with TCs is harder to justify.



The RF 100-500 is much smaller than the Nikon 180-600 zoom, and optically a lot better than the Nikon 100-400 with a TC, so for me it's a worthwhile tradeoff for the rare times I use it with a TC.



May 20, 2024 at 05:14 PM
arbitrage
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p.10 #8 · p.10 #8 · Canon r1 official announcement.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
This forum seems to have a lot of such people and it's the most ridiculous thing ever.


Some of us just like to try the latest and greatest. It is not all about chasing that last 1% advantage. I can get the shots I want with all the latest gear. But I still like to try out the new stuff. Although over the past 6 years I'm not doing major complete system switches anymore...I mainly buy or borrow the new stuff, test it, and if it really blows me a way I might keep it. So far nothing I've tried has blown me away in comparison to my A1 so that has been saving me a lot of $$ over the past 3 years....money saved to buy the A1II I guess



May 20, 2024 at 06:28 PM
TakesRandomPics
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p.10 #9 · p.10 #9 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Funnily enough I would have ended up in the Sony camp if could actually buy an A1 when I was looking. I ended up with the R5 and now have too much in glass to consider moving. Now I've actually shot Canon since the AE-1 so there's some familiarity bias for sure. But I remember shooting my dad's friend's Nikon (no idea what body) with the aperture display a moving needle on the right side of the viewfinder. What schoolboy me lusted over was the Olympus ad on the back cover of National Geographic. I still remember the gorgeous lineup of lenses. My first mirrorless was an Olympus in fact. Oh and I still have a Coolpix 950 somewhere with a ONE MEGAPIXEL sensor, all metal body and AA battery requirement.

What does all of this have to do with an R1? If it's a good camera I'll buy it. But the Sony A1 is a fine camera and the Nikon lens lineup is tempting to say the least. If you want a brand war there's always iOS vs Android these days.



May 20, 2024 at 09:53 PM
Gochugogi
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p.10 #10 · p.10 #10 · Canon r1 official announcement.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
It is also very strange to buy and sell gear and entire systems just because one brand has an advantage in one area for the moment, only to realize that another brand has an even better solution for that a couple of years later, and then a third repeats the advantage, each time wasting potentially tens of thousands of dollars just to get a temporary advantage in one area, and to sniff new gear. This forum seems to have a lot of such people and it's the most ridiculous thing ever.



No need to sell your system or play leapfrog. Many hereóat least the well heeled or those with abundant creditórun multiple systems. It doesn't have to make sense as a business investment since the majority here are hobbyists and collect gear and shoot as a passion. Not that different from motorcycle crazies, vintage guitar buffs, audiophiles and gun collectors. I used to shoot 3 systems, each with a full complement of lenses and accessories. I enjoyed the variety and differing feel but am back to just shooting Canon. Heck, as a hobby, photography is much less expensive and dangerous than gambling, keeping mistresses or racing vintage prop planes!

If you're a professional you have to worry about the bottomline and be fast and efficient when you work, so none of that "most ridiculous thing ever" shit. You're stuck with your system for a long time and probably use multiple copies of the same camera so you can play them like a piano when out on a job.



May 20, 2024 at 09:59 PM
 


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goalerjones
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p.10 #11 · p.10 #11 · Canon r1 official announcement.


I definitely fall into the "advanced hobbyist" category. My wife however made it clear we were sticking with Canon, so that keeps me from brand-hopping.

As for the new camera circus, I love to see advances in tech, and new ways to solve problems, but my main income does not come from my cameras, so I can sit back and let everyone else beta-test the latest and greatest, e.g. by the time I got my R5, the overheating issue was mostly solved, so it never inconvenienced me.



May 20, 2024 at 10:28 PM
Tony Ross
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p.10 #12 · p.10 #12 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Jman13 wrote:
The first real MILC was Panasonicís G1 for Micro 4/3 in 2008. Panasonic and Olympus had the initial head start, and the the NEX joined the party with a larger sensor. Samsungís NX line joined around the same time, but died shortly after they released the NX1, which is a shame because that camera was fricking awesome for the time.


I made no claim that Sony was first. I said the Sony did not follow Canon or Nikon, but rather preceded them. Can you argue with that?



May 21, 2024 at 06:01 AM
rscheffler
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p.10 #13 · p.10 #13 · Canon r1 official announcement.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
It is also very strange to buy and sell gear and entire systems .... each time wasting potentially tens of thousands of dollars just to get a temporary advantage in one area, and to sniff new gear. This forum seems to have a lot of such people and it's the most ridiculous thing ever.


I just spent about a week in Southern California and was reminded of the immense concentration of wealth in that area. I suspect for some 'wasting' 10s of thousands of dollars on frequent system changes would be, for them, the equivalent of pouring a glass of water down the drain. Inconsequential because other factors take much higher priority in their purchasing decisions. Of course this does not apply to everyone, or even the majority. But here on FM, at least on one of the other boards, there are certainly members who do not have the financial constraints of the majority and will buy/sell gear on what seems like mere whims.



May 21, 2024 at 08:13 AM
snapsy
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p.10 #14 · p.10 #14 · Canon r1 official announcement.


ilkka_nissila wrote:
It is also very strange to buy and sell gear and entire systems just because one brand has an advantage in one area for the moment, only to realize that another brand has an even better solution for that a couple of years later, and then a third repeats the advantage, each time wasting potentially tens of thousands of dollars just to get a temporary advantage in one area, and to sniff new gear. This forum seems to have a lot of such people and it's the most ridiculous thing ever.


Guilty as charged. I do so out of technical curiosity rather than to gain any photographic advantage, although sometimes a camera or lens will surprise me and I wind up keeping it. One of the benefits of FM is B+S, which has almost zero frictional cost and so allows those predisposed to try and release gear without losing much in the process...many times for less than the cost of renting but without renting's time constraints.



May 21, 2024 at 08:20 AM
Jman13
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p.10 #15 · p.10 #15 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Tony Ross wrote:
I made no claim that Sony was first. I said the Sony did not follow Canon or Nikon, but rather preceded them. Can you argue with that?


I wasn't arguing with you...I was adding additional information, following your statement of:


So neither Canon nor Nikon had the "first" MILC. Sony's NEX line predated both


That statement could be perceived as saying that NEX was the first MILC, and so I clarified. I know you didn't definitively state that, but someone else in the thread could perceive that information to be the case, so I added additional information purely for clarification.



May 21, 2024 at 09:39 AM
JaimitoFrog
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p.10 #16 · p.10 #16 · Canon r1 official announcement.


https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r1-spotted-in-the-wild-at-the-monaco-gp/

4 photos of R1 being tested at Monaco GP.

Compared to R3:
Flash mount cover now has a lock. Easy to lose it on R3 esp when squeezing it out of a bag.

Strap bar on the bottom for hand grips. R3 didn't have one like all the EF 1 series. I had to get plates that came with one to keep using my old hand grip (Hand Strap E1) from the 1DX days.

Separate white balance button on top right of the camera. Top panel lcd light button doubles as another function, cropping icon (light blue color)?

Card reader cover has a safety lock/two step mechanism.

Top LCD panel battery indicator shows %.

Another light blue icon by the mFn button next to the shutter button on both grips. WiFi transmitter?

Top panel settings on one of the photo shows M mode, shutter at 16,000, f1.2, ISO 125.

Edited on May 24, 2024 at 07:36 AM · View previous versions



May 24, 2024 at 03:54 AM
snapsy
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p.10 #17 · p.10 #17 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Jaron @ PetaPixel said he's been told the leaked specs are not accurate. He's well connected in the industry so I would give his statement more weight than others.

Starts at 13:26




May 24, 2024 at 04:13 AM
arbitrage
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p.10 #18 · p.10 #18 · Canon r1 official announcement.


JaimitoFrog wrote:
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r1-spotted-in-the-wild-at-the-monaco-gp/

4 photos of R1 being tested at Monaco GP.

Compared to R3:
Flash mount cover now has a lock. Easy to lose it on R3 esp when squeezing it out of a bag.

Strap bar on the bottom for hand grips. R3 didn't have one like all the EF 1 series. I had to get plates that came with one to keep using my old hand grip (Hand Strap E1) from the 1DX days.

Separate white balance button on top right of the camera. Top panel lcd light button doubles as another function, cropping?

Card reader cover has a safety lock/two step mechanism.
...Show more

Come on Canon, just release the basic specs. It is not like they are going to be changing the sensor or the FPS or new AF tech over the next few months. Sure they will do some tweaks to FW and iron out some bugs from the feedback of the pro sports photogs that have an early copy, but they aren't going to be changing the basics we want to know.



May 24, 2024 at 05:49 AM
Dragonfire
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p.10 #19 · p.10 #19 · Canon r1 official announcement.


arbitrage wrote:
Come on Canon, just release the basic specs. It is not like they are going to be changing the sensor or the FPS or new AF tech over the next few months. Sure they will do some tweaks to FW and iron out some bugs from the feedback of the pro sports photogs that have an early copy, but they aren't going to be changing the basics we want to know.


Geoff, I'll contact Psycho 1 and tell you tomorrow morning



May 24, 2024 at 06:34 AM
JaimitoFrog
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p.10 #20 · p.10 #20 · Canon r1 official announcement.




arbitrage wrote:
Come on Canon, just release the basic specs. It is not like they are going to be changing the sensor or the FPS or new AF tech over the next few months. Sure they will do some tweaks to FW and iron out some bugs from the feedback of the pro sports photogs that have an early copy, but they aren't going to be changing the basics we want to know.


They know marketing and hype.

If I recall correctly for R5, they would release a few specs at a time, over weeks.

Once we have pix from Olympics, then people will able to get more info from the photo files even if they don't announce anything yet.



May 24, 2024 at 07:44 AM
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