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Canon r1 official announcement.

  
 
jedibrain
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Canon r1 official announcement.


snapsy wrote:
Not sure why you're thinking I meant they would skip back to the DIGIC Xin the R5/R6. It's also not clear the DIGIC X in the R6II/R8 is sufficient by itself to maintain a reasonable buffer size for a flagship for whatever resolution Canon has planned for it.


"This is consistent with the announcement stating that the R1 will use the existing DIGIC X processor from 5 years ago, but paired with a coprocessor to add functionality."

That's where I got it from. DIGIC X was described as a family of processors by Canon quite a while ago. The one in the R5/6 is not the same as in the 6II/8 (which are less than 5 years old). There is no concrete information that the R1 uses either of those or a new one. But its highly unlikely they are going to use the oldest of what is available to them if they do decide to reuse something already out there.

Brian



May 15, 2024 at 11:31 AM
Imagemaster
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Canon r1 official announcement.


It is not an official announcement of its release, just an announcement of its development: announced today that it is currently developing




May 15, 2024 at 11:50 AM
snapsy
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Canon r1 official announcement.


jedibrain wrote:
"This is consistent with the announcement stating that the R1 will use the existing DIGIC X processor from 5 years ago, but paired with a coprocessor to add functionality."

That's where I got it from. DIGIC X was described as a family of processors by Canon quite a while ago. The one in the R5/6 is not the same as in the 6II/8 (which are less than 5 years old). There is no concrete information that the R1 uses either of those or a new one. But its highly unlikely they are going to use the oldest of what is available
...Show more

Thanks. I forgot I mentioned that.

From Canon's press release:

"This camera employs the newly developed image processor DIGIC Accelerator in addition to the pre-existing processor DIGIC X. "

Source: https://www.dpreview.com/news/0785314321/canon-announces-development-of-eos-r1



May 15, 2024 at 11:58 AM
AmbientMike
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Canon r1 official announcement.



big country wrote:
Here what I’ve been told by my reliable sources:

R1 was originally slated to be announced w/specs late first quarter 2024.
The specs leaked and canon got a lot of blow back from everyone over a 30
Megapixel sensor. Canons original feeling was you don’t need all those megapixels.
However need vs want is a delicate line and the market is demanding high resolution like a1, z9.
After much blowback from everyone including their explorers of light, canon went back to the drawing
Board and started reworking and revamping everything, especially the sensor.

This is why it kept getting pushed back. The
...Show more

That's basically in agreement CR sources, one reason you'd push back the camera release a year over processing speeds is more pixels. They claim quad pixel af (QPAF) and for those fan boys of other brands saying how bad this is:

"It has also been mentioned numerous times that the EOS R1 will get a development announcement and will be present in Paris for the Summer Games. This is the same way that Canon launched the EOS R3 and that went pretty well.

The timeline has been May/June for the development announcement, the official announcement coming in August and shipments starting mid-Q4."




May 15, 2024 at 12:08 PM
AmbientMike
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Here's Jan's R5 II, he says 45mp stacked sensor, hopefully available July (CR heard July.) Faster processing speeds than r3 digic X + booster. So you'd think the R1 ahead vs R5 series




May 15, 2024 at 12:27 PM
whumber
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Gochugogi wrote:
I think 8k is 7680 x 4320 pixels so less than 35 MP will cover it.




35MP in a 16:9 aspect ratio. The minimum resolution to give 8K video with a 3:2 sensor is 40MP.



May 15, 2024 at 01:00 PM
MintMar
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Sy Sez wrote:
Canon's "1" series has always been their professional sports-oriented body where high MP is not a major priority.


Don't forget for quite some time there was the 1Ds hi-rez camera accompanyning the 1D low-rez sport camera...




May 15, 2024 at 01:13 PM
robert_in_ca
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Canon r1 official announcement.


MintMar wrote:
Don't forget for quite some time there was the 1Ds hi-rez camera accompanyning the 1D low-rez sport camera...



True but that was over 20 years ago and Canon's moved away from doing that sort of product model releasing. Clearly anything is possible, but I seriously doubt Canon will offer variants of the R1.




May 15, 2024 at 01:29 PM
Jman13
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Sy Sez wrote:
Canon's "1" series has always been their professional sports-oriented body where high MP is not a major priority.

The R3 is likely a stop-gap model to produce an "R" series sports body while the R1 was still in development.

If there is to be a R3 Mark-2, it may become the high speed, high MP, "jack of all trades"?


I strongly believe (despite what some contacts have said) that the R3 was going to be the R1. It's priced similarly, and built in that vein. And then Sony announced the A1, and it sent Canon into a panic. Then with rumors for the Z9 (which was announced very shortly after the R3), showing that Nikon was doing similar, and Canon said, well, make it an R3 instead of an R1, and revise what the R1 will be.

They also have to fit price in with the rest of their lineup, and with the R3 at $5K ($4,500 on sale), the R1 will likely be $6,500, which matches it with the A1, $1,000 more expensive than the Z9, and $500 more than the A9 III....it's a harder sell.



May 15, 2024 at 02:17 PM
Jman13
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Canon r1 official announcement.


robert_in_ca wrote:
True but that was over 20 years ago and Canon's moved away from doing that sort of product model releasing. Clearly anything is possible, but I seriously doubt Canon will offer variants of the R1.



Yeah, they haven't done that since the 1DX merged the lines.



May 15, 2024 at 02:18 PM
 


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middlerockies
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Canon r1 official announcement.


They use the 16:9 aspect when promoting 8K capabilities, though, so they could get away with a 33MP sensor at 7680 x 4320 pixels and still use the marketing.


May 15, 2024 at 03:34 PM
dhlewis
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Canon r1 official announcement.


I have been Canon my whole life all the way back to the AE1 with a power winder, it's way too late to change now.

Internally on the camera side Canon must be very broken, its management has been floundering for a couple of years now to get back on track (late to the mirrorless party). I'm not sure what is wrong but something is really missing with their camera development and update cycle. Lenses don't appear to suffer from the same fate. And to release a statement like they did today just tells me they are really out of touch with their customers who see the competitors moving faster and using new technology.







May 15, 2024 at 04:10 PM
johnctharp
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Canon r1 official announcement.


dhlewis wrote:
Internally on the camera side Canon must be very broken, its management has been floundering for a couple of years now to get back on track (late to the mirrorless party). I'm not sure what is wrong but something is really missing with their camera development and update cycle. Lenses don't appear to suffer from the same fate. And to release a statement like they did today just tells me they are really out of touch with their customers who see the competitors moving faster and using new technology.


To summarize for you: Sony bought all of their sensor manufacturer competitors outside of Samsung, and that's what every consumer camera uses including Canon for sensors that aren't a) made by Canon or b) something boutique.

Everything from iPhones to everyone's P&S cameras (that are left) to all of the competitive M43, APS-C, FF and medium-format cameras use sensors either from Canon or Sony.

And Sony's sensor division dwarfs Canons, simply by virtue of Sony itself being large enough to consolidate the market.

Also note that iPhones get the best tech first, while also having the tightest (yearly) development cycles. This is where the real innovation happens in sensors when it does, with the only memorable exception to me being Sony's full-frame global shutter A9 III.


All of the above to say that there doesn't need to be anything wrong with Canon's management. They are charting their own course when it comes to sensor manufacturing; they have unique technology and a good ecosystem to build on. And keep in mind that while the technology exists to increase mass-market camera quality (speed, resolution, dynamic range, battery life) beyond what we have today, these companies are always mindful of not adopting technologies at scale until they can be affordably brought to market.



May 15, 2024 at 04:26 PM
bernardl
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Canon r1 official announcement.


dhlewis wrote:
I have been Canon my whole life all the way back to the AE1 with a power winder, it's way too late to change now.

Internally on the camera side Canon must be very broken, its management has been floundering for a couple of years now to get back on track (late to the mirrorless party). I'm not sure what is wrong but something is really missing with their camera development and update cycle. Lenses don't appear to suffer from the same fate. And to release a statement like they did today just tells me they are really out of
...Show more

Having had the opportunity to meet some mid ranked Canon guys in Japan some years ago, I was surprised by their arrogance.

I believe that their commercial success (to a large part resulting from smart marketing) has made them confused about the extent to which they can afford to be permanently behind the competition in the high end. Their thinking was along the lines of “we are Canon so we decide what the customers need”.

You mention bodies, but the main issue is lenses isn’t? Especially on the long end. The only unique and truly appealing proposition is their great 100-300mm f2.8 as an answer to Nikon’s 120-300mm f2.8. But we know Sony has a super light 300mm f2.8 and Nikon is rumored to release soon a 100-300mm f2.8 S TC.

Besides, I am surprised to read the comments here about 30mp being too much… The Sony and Nikon sport and wildlife shooters are very happy about the cropping ability afforded by their a1 and Z8/Z9. Especially when combined with the super télés with built-in teleconverters. It simply opens new possibilities with no practical downside.

The too many pixels is a deeply self-defeating Stockholm syndrome things… when you don’t have what you like, like what you have. And if they have managed to convince Canon themselves that this is true the gap with competition will only further increase. The fan boy comment above demonstrates why this may happen. Any criticism of Canon is perceived as a they vs us thing instead of being considered as a potentially valid point. So the bubble grows, the walls get taller and the belief that it’s right because it’s Canon gets stronger. While photographers using other products get an ever increasing competitive advantage.

Of course they will claim that speed is more important (assuming they can do faster than an a9III at 120 fps), but that many frames creates a much bigger practical issue than too many pixels. Even if ai comes to the rescue to select frames for you… the eye focusing AF debacle has shown that Canon simply cannot just be trusted to introduce reliable ai based technologies that work for working professionals (yes it’s ai based too).

Cheers,
Bernard



May 15, 2024 at 04:33 PM
JaimitoFrog
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Canon r1 official announcement.


Looks like Adorama webpage leaked the specs:

https://www.adorama.com/car1.html?utm_medium=email&emailprice=T&utm_source=Bluecore-051524-05PM-NPA-Canon-EOS-R1-Camera&utm_content=051524-05PM-NPA-Canon-EOS-R1-Camera&utm_campaign=051524-05PM-NPA-Canon-EOS-R1-Camera-P-G-NA-GLP&obem=iiEXya1YUSoW2xQxbrcMytux2HDmioqjtyJ4LsjO7eE%3D&bc_lcid=t5945673790906368lw4908732874088448li0&utm_source=Bluecore-051524-05PM-NPA-Canon-EOS-R1-Camera#main-product-tabs


High-speed autofocus and exposure enhanced by AI recognition
Moving object trajectory prediction, high success rate smart object lock focus tracking
30MP full-frame stacked dual-gain sensor
Purely electronic rolling shutter faster than any mechanical rolling shutter
1/1,250 sec flash sync time (<0.8 microsecond read time)
Added 1:3 lossy compression CRAW (compared to lossless compression)
Unlimited 40fps (1:2 CRAW) / 60fps (1:3 CRAW) continuous shooting
Up to 120fps full-featured continuous shooting
Supports 240fps burst continuous shooting mode, 1 second pre-shooting
Enhanced dynamic range, better than EOS R3 and EOS R5



May 15, 2024 at 04:46 PM
dhlewis
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Canon r1 official announcement.


johnctharp wrote:
[
To summarize for you: Sony bought all of their sensor manufacturer competitors outside of Samsung, and that's what every consumer camera uses including Canon for sensors that aren't a) made by Canon or b) something boutique.

Everything from iPhones to everyone's P&S cameras (that are left) to all of the competitive M43, APS-C, FF and medium-format cameras use sensors either from Canon or Sony.

And Sony's sensor division dwarfs Canons, simply by virtue of Sony itself being large enough to consolidate the market.

Agree with you.

Also note that iPhones get the best tech first, while also having the tightest (yearly) development cycles. This
...Show more


I understand what's going on in the sensor market. This probably explains why Nikon who was in a pretty deep hole a few years ago was able to get back on track by using Sony sensors along with their internal development knowhow.

I'm sorry are you saying that Apples products impact Canon's ability to upgrade it Cameras?

Reading the last couple of statements Canon released about the R1 development tells me that their management has some issues. Marketing is part of management just like technology and Engineering.

Also the whole thing about not wanting any lens competitors for RF and then reversing course.


Edited on May 15, 2024 at 05:01 PM · View previous versions



May 15, 2024 at 04:57 PM
Jman13
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Canon r1 official announcement.


So...I was looking at the rendered image for the R1, and I can't help but think the proportions are downright wonky. I took this image, plus the same angle image made for the R3 and attempted to scale them based on common features, which was surprisingly difficult. I had to disregard the lens, because I think they did different render focal lengths when they made the images...but settled on this scaling, which perfectly matches the vertical front function buttons in size, which also matches the EOS text, the IR sensor size, and the front command wheel size. (the Canon text does not match here). So this is my best guess. This makes the R1 only very slightly larger than the R3, with a millimeter or two extra in height and width. However, the proportions are radically different.

The R1 has the lens mount pushed significantly to the left edge (right edge in these images) of the camera, leaving a HUGE amount of space between the grip and the lens. Also, the main grip has significantly less actual space for your hand on the R1 than it does on the R3 due to the way they've aggressively swept up the vertical grip shutter button is. The whole thing just looks weird because the lens mount is shoved over to the side, and it makes the camera look dramatically stretched out on the grip side.








May 15, 2024 at 05:01 PM
Jman13
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Canon r1 official announcement.


JaimitoFrog wrote:
Looks like Adorama webpage leaked the specs:

https://www.adorama.com/car1.html?utm_medium=email&emailprice=T&utm_source=Bluecore-051524-05PM-NPA-Canon-EOS-R1-Camera&utm_content=051524-05PM-NPA-Canon-EOS-R1-Camera&utm_campaign=051524-05PM-NPA-Canon-EOS-R1-Camera-P-G-NA-GLP&obem=iiEXya1YUSoW2xQxbrcMytux2HDmioqjtyJ4LsjO7eE%3D&bc_lcid=t5945673790906368lw4908732874088448li0&utm_source=Bluecore-051524-05PM-NPA-Canon-EOS-R1-Camera#main-product-tabs

High-speed autofocus and exposure enhanced by AI recognition
Moving object trajectory prediction, high success rate smart object lock focus tracking
30MP full-frame stacked dual-gain sensor
Purely electronic rolling shutter faster than any mechanical rolling shutter
1/1,250 sec flash sync time (<0.8 microsecond read time)
Added 1:3 lossy compression CRAW (compared to lossless compression)
Unlimited 40fps (1:2 CRAW) / 60fps (1:3 CRAW) continuous shooting
Up to 120fps full-featured continuous shooting
Supports 240fps burst continuous shooting mode, 1 second pre-shooting
Enhanced dynamic range, better than EOS R3 and EOS R5


Pretty sure one of those stats is massively incorrect. States 1/1250s flash sync (which would indeed be insanely fast read speed, at nearly 5x faster than the Z8)....but then they say 0.8 microsecond read time. That is NOT accurate. They meant to say 0.8 millisecond read time. 1/1250 = 0.0008 seconds = 0.8 millisecond, or 800 microseconds.

Still, if true, I understand why Canon doesn't really care that it's not a global shutter...for all real photographic endeavors it'll act like one. Only in capturing the absolute highest speed action (like a golf ball shortly after impact) will there really be any visible rolling shutter and even then it'll likely be hard to discern. Heck, there's very little with cameras like the Z8/Z9, A1 and A9 II, and this will be well over 4x faster than all of them (1/270, 1/240, 1/160 respectively).



May 15, 2024 at 05:12 PM
AmbientMike
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Canon r1 official announcement.




Jman13 wrote:
So...I was looking at the rendered image for the R1, and I can't help but think the proportions are downright wonky. I took this image, plus the same angle image made for the R3 and attempted to scale them based on common features, which was surprisingly difficult. I had to disregard the lens, because I think they did different render focal lengths when they made the images...but settled on this scaling, which perfectly matches the vertical front function buttons in size, which also matches the EOS text, the IR sensor size, and the front command wheel size. (the Canon text
...Show more

So you got all that, out of a photo of 2 cameras that look pretty similar?



May 15, 2024 at 05:15 PM
Jman13
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Canon r1 official announcement.




AmbientMike wrote:
So you got all that, out of a photo of 2 cameras that look pretty similar?


I got all that out of scaling the images and then looking at the images. I did the scaling because when I first looked at the R1 image it looked so stretched out that I thought it was going to be huge. It looks like I was wrong on that front, but the proportions are still odd.



May 15, 2024 at 05:19 PM
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