p.13 #1 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
Viramati wrote:
While waiting for a response from Japan I have had this from Sony Pro support UK (I had a new motherboard last year)
"Encountering a WiFi issue with a new mainboard would be unfortunate, but it's not possible to guarantee that this will not occur.
The new firmware introduces a detection mechanism for the Wi-Fi chipset. Should a user encounter a chipset failure on a version prior to this mechanism's implementation, the camera may fail to boot, become inoperable, display a System Error, or enter a boot loop.
Since your camera is functioning properly and you've indicated that the features available with firmware 2.01 do not interest you, we still recommend against updating your camera's software."...Show more →
Interesting facts as opposed to some of the forum or Facebook comments speculation. Also, interesting Sony feels the need to include this particular detection mechanism in v2.01.
"The new firmware introduces a detection mechanism for the Wi-Fi chipset. Should a user encounter a chipset failure on a version prior to this mechanism's implementation, the camera may fail to boot, become inoperable, display a System Error, or enter a boot loop."
In other words, for those that care, even if you never plan to use either might be wise to check your BT Wifi asap particularly if your camera is under warranty so it can be repaired under warranty.
For those realizing they were affected after the firmware update, I don't think/or I hope this is not the end of the story from Sony. But probably going to take some time for this multinational conglomerate and their supplier partners and their legal department(s) to sort and communicate a potential remedy.
In the mean time and as others has posted--to include those the never plan to use BT/Wifi, if there is a BT/Wifi chipset failure the camera is otherwise functional and in some cases e.g., a USBC cable can be used to transfer files directly from the camera instead of Wifi.
p.13 #2 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
LBJ2 wrote:
Interesting facts as opposed to some of the forum or Facebook comments speculation. Also, interesting Sony feels the need to include this particular detection mechanism in v2.01.
"The new firmware introduces a detection mechanism for the Wi-Fi chipset. Should a user encounter a chipset failure on a version prior to this mechanism's implementation, the camera may fail to boot, become inoperable, display a System Error, or enter a boot loop."
In other words, for those that care, even if you never plan to use either might be wise to check your BT Wifi asap particularly if your camera is under warranty so it can be repaired under warranty.
For those realizing they were affected after the firmware update, I don't think/or I hope this is not the end of the story from Sony. But probably going to take some time for this multinational conglomerate and their supplier partners and their legal department(s) to sort and communicate a potential remedy. ...Show more →
I don't know if other users who have pro support have been in touch with them about this possible issue either here in Europe or elsewhere but it would be interesting to know what responses they are getting. Basically the recommendation is if you really don't need the new features don't risk upgrading until they hear back from Japan!!
p.13 #3 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
Viramati wrote:
I don't know if other users who have pro support have been in touch with them about this possible issue either here in Europe or elsewhere but it would be interesting to know what responses they are getting. Basically the recommendation is not to upgrade until they here back from Japan!!
So far, I've only seen the one email response posted from a North Amer.,I believe, CSR about "in and out of warranty coverage." Which was of course not helpful.
I contacted Sony Pro Support in the LA last week, and the person I spoke to was not aware of this issue. After I sent him the message from Sony UK and Germany, he advised similar to your UK pro support message, for those concerned, to wait.
But also, I think there is more to what might be going on here. Why would Sony think important to include this chipset alert message in v2.01?
p.13 #4 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
It's not really at odds with my speculation that the firmware is detecting chipsets that are functioning as new, but are out of spec.
Assuming that Wi-Fi and Bluetooth functionality was working properly immediately before firmware update:
Unlikely: Spontaneous physical hardware damage occurs at the moment of a firmware update.
Likely: There have been several revisions to the main board during the last 3 years of production, inducing changes to individual wireless module (different suppliers) or discreet circuitry related to its implementation on the main board.
Plausible/Likely: Firmware is receiving exceptions from an out of spec module.
Plausible/Likely: Firmware is receiving unexpected responses from an unknown (to this firmware revision) module or variant.
LBJ2 wrote:
Interesting facts as opposed to some of the forum or Facebook comments speculation. Also, interesting Sony feels the need to include this particular detection mechanism in v2.01.
"The new firmware introduces a detection mechanism for the Wi-Fi chipset. Should a user encounter a chipset failure on a version prior to this mechanism's implementation, the camera may fail to boot, become inoperable, display a System Error, or enter a boot loop."
In other words, for those that care, even if you never plan to use either might wise to check your BT Wifi asap particularly if your camera is under warranty so it can be repaired under warranty. ...Show more →
p.13 #5 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
jplaurel wrote:
It's not really at odds with my speculation that the firmware is detecting chipsets that are functioning as new, but are out of spec.
The likelihood that spontaneous physical hardware damage occurs at the moment of a firmware update is low.
Assuming that Wi-Fi and Bluetooth were working properly immediately prior to firmware update, the likely case is that the new firmware is receiving exceptions from an out of spec chipset. This should not be surprising, given the high likelihood that there have been several revisions to the main board, as well as components such as the wireless chipset.
I have no idea if "our" speculation is accurate or not, or something in-between which is why I also think/hope, there may be more to this story from Sony alpha HQ.
p.13 #6 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
Agreed.
LBJ2 wrote:
I have no idea if "our" speculation is accurate or not, or something in-between which is why I also think/hope, there may be more to this story from Sony alpha HQ.
p.13 #8 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
Viramati wrote:
While waiting for a response from Japan I have had this from Sony Pro support UK (I had a new motherboard last year)
"Encountering a WiFi issue with a new mainboard would be unfortunate, but it's not possible to guarantee that this will not occur.
The new firmware introduces a detection mechanism for the Wi-Fi chipset. Should a user encounter a chipset failure on a version prior to this mechanism's implementation, the camera may fail to boot, become inoperable, display a System Error, or enter a boot loop.
Since your camera is functioning properly and you've indicated that the features available with firmware 2.01 do not interest you, we still recommend against updating your camera's software."...Show more →
So as I guessed it is a chipset problem.
The issue, however, is that the chipset was not installed by the user but by Sony, so if the chipset is not compliant to use the new fw the problem must be Sony's!
When the machine was purchased it was not specified "lower chipset model"...paying less for it, it cost the same as any other!
Therefore Sony should either guarantee operation regardless of the chipset used or replace non-compatible boards!
Sony Japan's response is ridiculous! Should I care about the features introduced?....What does Sony do?
I have had less than pleasant experiences with Nikon support, but this behavior on Sony's part I find embarrassing to say the least...
p.13 #9 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
_MacTwin_ wrote:
So as I guessed it is a chipset problem.
The issue, however, is that the chipset was not installed by the user but by Sony, so if the chipset is not compliant to use the new fw the problem must be Sony's!
When the machine was purchased it was not specified "lower chipset model"...paying less for it, it cost the same as any other!
Therefore Sony should either guarantee operation regardless of the chipset used or replace non-compatible boards!
Sony Japan's response is ridiculous! Should I care about the features introduced?....What does Sony do?
I have had less than pleasant experiences with Nikon support, but this behavior on Sony's part I find embarrassing to say the least......Show more →
To be clear this is NOT Sony Japan's response to how they will deal with it, it is Sony Pro support EU's answer to me while it is waiting for a response from Japan. Sony Pro support are very helpful and are totally different from the standard Sony support network where you will never get any real clarity other than a party line.
I would add that the motherboard on mine was replaced under warranty last year as the bluetooth chip stopped working but I am still concerned as I saw that someone else who had had the same done to their camera had problems with the Wifi not working after the upgrade
p.13 #10 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
The chip crisis has created a lot of damage; in any case, I find it crazy that such a silly chip as the network connection chip, found in millions of devices of all kinds, could be so delicate as to have many cases of malfunction.
It is still a mistake on the part of Sony, which evidently used a very poor supply for some A1s.
p.13 #11 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
Basically it's a bit like Russian roulette and I'm not willing to play!! If there is an issue the cost of replacing the motherboard here in the UK would be £525 plus around 2.5 hours labour. So until I get a a guarantee from Sony that they would cover the cost of repair if there firmware update stops my camera working as it should I'm sticking on 1.32
p.13 #12 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
Viramati wrote:
Basically it's a bit like Russian roulette and I'm not willing to play!! If there is an issue the cost of replacing the motherboard here in the UK would be £525 plus around 2.5 hours labour. So until I get a a guarantee from Sony that they would cover the cost of repair if there firmware update stops my camera working as it should I'm sticking on 1.32
Why no 1.35?
The latter appears to be the latest …
p.13 #13 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
Knut. wrote:
Why no 1.35?
The latter appears to be the latest …
I'm on 2.01, but I don't think I'd install 1.35 if I didn't intend to continue on to 2.01. 1.35 doesn't come with it's own release notes. It seems to be preparatory release for 2.xx, but there's no (official) indication of what it updates or it it's intended to be stable, working release. Its official purpose is to prepare the upgrade path for 2.xx.
Maybe it's the most perfect firmware version for the A1 ever, but installing it is as big a risk (for slightly different reasons) as 2.01. For those averse to risk, at least 1.32 is a known entity.
p.13 #15 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
WOW! What a wild story.
I updated my A1 to Firmware version 2.01 and can shoot pictures without issues.
So far I have not tried Wi-Fi or BT yet, as I have never used it before.
Tempted to try. What could go wrong?
Famous last words.
As I understand the above discussion my A1 should not turn into a paper weight trying to use Wi-Fi or BT as it still works correctly otherwise now that it is on 2.01.
p.13 #16 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
So to summarize, if I understand it correctly: the latest firmware 2.01, as was v2.0, is incompatible with the network chipset in early A1 cameras (quite a few), but it contains code to detect the chipset incompatibility and gives the user a warning that the network functionality does not work due to hardware (and so there is no use trying to configure the camera differently or bother Sony customer service with it).
On top of that, the A1 owner is expected to pay him/herself for the hardware upgrade to a compatible network chipset, meaning a whole new motherboard has to be installed.
That is the only way to restore full network functionality.
Side effect is likely to be, that a wave of cheap A1's are coming to the used market that are 1.000,-/1500,- below normal used prices due to missing networking capabilities.
These bodies are fine however for users that have no need for the network functionality, and offer a way to get into the A1 really cheap.
Possible other side effect could be, that the appetite for a Sony A1mkII may turn out less than expected due to users feeling ripped off by Sony.
Sony however prefers taking this risk, over having to take in a large quantity of A1's and replace their motherboards under warranty.
They may feel that the A1 is primarily a camera for proffesional photographers, that will have mostly worn out their A1's by now anyhow, have mostly upgraded to the A9III, and will all upgrade to the A1mkII when it comes to market early next year.
p.13 #17 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
ChrisMak wrote:
So to summarize, if I understand it correctly: the latest firmware 2.01, as was v2.0, is incompatible with the network chipset in early A1 cameras (quite a few), but it contains code to detect the chipset incompatibility and gives the user a warning that the network functionality does not work due to hardware (and so there is no use trying to configure the camera differently or bother Sony customer service with it).
On top of that, the A1 owner is expected to pay him/herself for the hardware upgrade to a compatible network chipset, meaning a whole new motherboard has to be installed.
That is the only way to restore full network functionality.
Side effect is likely to be, that a wave of cheap A1's are coming to the used market that are 1.000,-/1500,- below normal used prices due to missing networking capabilities.
These bodies are fine however for users that have no need for the network functionality, and offer a way to get into the A1 really cheap.
Possible other side effect could be, that the appetite for a Sony A1mkII may turn out less than expected due to users feeling ripped off by Sony.
Sony however prefers taking this risk, over having to take in a large quantity of A1's and replace their motherboards under warranty.
They may feel that the A1 is primarily a camera for proffesional photographers, that will have mostly worn out their A1's by now anyhow, have mostly upgraded to the A9III, and will all upgrade to the A1mkII when it comes to market early next year.
Am I missing or misinterpreting anything? ...Show more →
I am wondering where you got the impression that the wifi issues mainly affect the earlier products?
p.13 #18 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
Wanted to throw something out there. I don't know how many of you are gamers but ironically Sony screwed the pooch so bad in the gaming space that they had to massively walk back this week. There is a game called "Helldivers 2". The game was originally supposed to launch with a psn account but due to the popularity of the game it crashed the servers constantly so the developers pushed a patch that made it optional for months. PSN accounts on PC games have usually been optional and it was captured in their website stating as much but when this change back to required accounts to use the game came months after release it sparked massive backlash. The reason this is important is because this was Sony's first successful live service pc game that they have been attempting for literally many years. Like literally a Sony golden goose. PC gamers tend to be very hostile to changes like this and took it incredibly poorly by review bombing the game. The other thing that came out around this time is Sony had been selling the game in countries/territories that didn't even have access to PSN accounts and suddenly they'd not be able to play without the required PSN account. The whole debacle changed the game from "overwhelmingly positive" to "overwhelmingly negative" over the span of 3 days with over 300k negative reviews posted. It finally hit it's peak with Sony walking back the change and trying to act like they are listening to the community but it has yet to truly be seen if they will try to force it again.
My point with that whole thing is that if Sony was at first willing to take the hit they undoubtedly knew was coming by forced PSN registration on one of their most popular PC games it doesn't surprise me they give people who have failures on this update the middle finger either. Honestly seems like Sony's MO.. only reason they walked the helldivers decision back is they underestimated the camaraderie that game generated that is literally about sticking together and winning the fight. They probably won't do anything here either unless they see some threat to the bottom line that is unavoidable.
p.13 #19 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
ChrisMak wrote:
So to summarize, if I understand it correctly: the latest firmware 2.01, as was v2.0, is incompatible with the network chipset in early A1 cameras (quite a few), but it contains code to detect the chipset incompatibility and gives the user a warning that the network functionality does not work due to hardware (and so there is no use trying to configure the camera differently or bother Sony customer service with it).
On top of that, the A1 owner is expected to pay him/herself for the hardware upgrade to a compatible network chipset, meaning a whole new motherboard has to be installed.
That is the only way to restore full network functionality.
Side effect is likely to be, that a wave of cheap A1's are coming to the used market that are 1.000,-/1500,- below normal used prices due to missing networking capabilities.
These bodies are fine however for users that have no need for the network functionality, and offer a way to get into the A1 really cheap.
Possible other side effect could be, that the appetite for a Sony A1mkII may turn out less than expected due to users feeling ripped off by Sony.
Sony however prefers taking this risk, over having to take in a large quantity of A1's and replace their motherboards under warranty.
They may feel that the A1 is primarily a camera for proffesional photographers, that will have mostly worn out their A1's by now anyhow, have mostly upgraded to the A9III, and will all upgrade to the A1mkII when it comes to market early next year.
Am I missing or misinterpreting anything? ...Show more →
Maybe there is another solution. Modify the firmware to be tolerant to the older chipset if detected. Point here is both wifi & BT worked using 1.32.
p.13 #20 · A1 Firmware v 2.01 is out now. On the fence about installing it though. :)
I would say the other alternative is to proceed with a signature gathering and petition in major newspapers, Sony in any case will have to respond to the evidence in major newspapers.
In the unlikely event that Sony does not really take into account the complaints of unsuspecting customers who find themselves with a limited product compared to an identical one with the correct chip, as a last resort those in the U.S. can proceed with a class action lawsuit.
I still think (or hope) that they are simply trying to figure out how to solve, both in terms of communication and action to be taken.
Incidentally, the difference between 2 and 2.01 is that the chip control built into 2.01 prevents the user from forcing configurations that can actually lock up the machine.
It simply disables the same if it finds an unsuitable chip.
