cborel83 wrote:
I just got an open Box M11 from BH. I love it but its been freezing a lot and its upsetting. Any resolutions yet? Thanks
As an experiment try this. Turn off auto review. Shoot only to internal memory. Choose either jpeg or RAW but only one. Remove the SD card.
Some report that this stops the freezing. If it does, then we just need to find an SD card that is stable for you and start adding back in the other things one at a time to see what setup is stable.
This has worked for some people I know of. In my case it seems like Sony SD cards were the problem. My M11 is very stable and reliable.
cborel83 wrote:
I just got an open Box M11 from BH. I love it but its been freezing a lot and its upsetting. Any resolutions yet? Thanks
I'm sincerely sorry that you bought a M11, it has the well earned reputation of being snake bit with reliability problems. You are just the latest owner of many to become a "freeze" customer. My advice is return it to B&H within the 30 day return period. Then either buy a mint M10-R or wait for the M12 and see if it has the same reliability problems...6-12 months after introduction.
cborel83 wrote:
Are these the same prices as an M11 just minus a back screen?
So far, it's just rumors, but anticipate the camera to be priced at a minimum of $9,000. If it's a highly restricted special edition, the sky is the limit...
It is SO interesting reading Leica threads as someone who isn't invested at all. The prospect of buying a new Leica in 2024 seems insane from the outside looking in. What a incredible case study in psychology and the power of branding.
Rangefinder experience = largely considered positive
Rangefinders = small(est) and compact full frame experience
Leica = only ones that offer this (digital) experience
There’s no competition and they can charge what they want. I don’t discount the strength of brand but Leica has experience/performance upside, just not in the traditional sense.
RoamingScott wrote:
It is SO interesting reading Leica threads as someone who isn't invested at all. The prospect of buying a new Leica in 2024 seems insane from the outside looking in. What a incredible case study in psychology and the power of branding.
I would say the amount of anecdotal experiences JUST posted on FM prove that it's more serious than some dismissive word salad would have you believe.
Lieca is NOT the only one making digital rangefinders, but yes, they are the only ones providing the eXpErIeNcE of playing the lottery when buying a $6000+ camera and then making you wait 3-4 months to have it returned to you in working order, maybe.
I suspect many people, especially those tens of thousands into Leica, are too close to it to see it clearly.
RoamingScott wrote:
I would say the amount of anecdotal experiences JUST posted on FM prove that it's more serious than some dismissive word salad would have you believe.
Lieca is NOT the only one making digital rangefinders, but yes, they are the only ones providing the eXpErIeNcE of playing the lottery when buying a $6000+ camera and then making you wait 3-4 months to have it returned to you in working order, maybe.
I suspect many people, especially those tens of thousands into Leica, are too close to it to see it clearly.
Or maybe you just don't see the advantage of using one, which is totally fine too.
Is really not that difficult, any other brand producing rangefinder cameras or a camera in which you can use a rangefinder lens and not be impacted by corner smearing?
RoamingScott wrote:
It is SO interesting reading Leica threads as someone who isn't invested at all. The prospect of buying a new Leica in 2024 seems insane from the outside looking in. What a incredible case study in psychology and the power of branding.
RoamingScott wrote:
It is SO interesting reading Leica threads as someone who isn't invested at all. The prospect of buying a new Leica in 2024 seems insane from the outside looking in. What a incredible case study in psychology and the power of branding.
I was right with you up until I tried it.
Any modern lens from the major Japanese manufacturers will beat the current M lenses in terms of optical performance - the M lenses have compromises to make them as small as they are, it’s just how it is. And Leica certainly doesn’t make the best cameras, their digital tech is many years behind the competition.
What they DO have is the only digital rangefinder on the market.
Put it this way… if you need to hit a bullseye at 100 yards a scoped rifle is the best tool for the job, but a traditional longbow is much more fun to use. Same thing with using a rangefinder. You either enjoy the limitations or you don’t.
stevejack2 wrote:
I love using the digital back on a Hasselblad film camera for this exact reason. Turning the knob to cock the shutter, using the waist level viewfinder to focus, feeling the mirror slap up as it exposes the sensor... a truly film-like experience with all the benefits of a digital output.
I really think this is what Leica should be focusing on for their D line. It's not about pretending to use a film camera, or faking an analog workflow... It's about the tactile experience of using a camera that doesn't feel like I'm using a computer. That's all I want.
I still use a Leica film camera occasionally not because of how the film looks once it's developed, but because I want to do something with my leisure time that isn't 'digital'. So I don't want to be looking at a screen, or watching a histogram, or fussing with a menu system. I don't want to feel a glass screen beneath my fingers when I hold the camera.... I want the picture-making experience to be a relaxing way to detox from sitting on a computer all day at work or from answering emails on my phone.
I don't see tactile knobs and levers that serve a core function as gimmicky, I see it as a way to digitally detox. ...Show more →
I like your approach, as I try to replicate the film experience with my digital cameras buy turning everything off and doing everything manually. But then I'm a film guy who begrudgingly had to adopt digital during the Dark Ages when it looked like film would be abandoned forever and digital was the only choice left for photography. Given my own choice for how a camera would work, it would have knobs and aperture rings instead of buttons that activate rotary encoders that manipulate a menu system, and it certainly would not require linking to a smartphone to access it's features.
I'm having a pretty hard time wrapping my mind around how anyone could see the requirement to use a smartphone to access camera features as a good idea. Taking the controls out of the camera and moving them to a tethered computing device (Bluetooth is a wireless tether, but a tether nonetheless) doesn't seem to improve the shooting experience to me, though it definitely makes an electronic device cheaper to produce when the designer offloads the human interface infrastructure to an external computing device. Does that type of progress mean that you're going to have to use the camera manufacturer's app to access the camera's advanced features? While some people might think that is a good idea and go along for the ride, to me it seems like the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes. I just don't see how a camera can be useful if it requires your smartphone to access it's features.
But my comments are probably out of place. I'm not invested into the Leica ecosystem ... yet ... and I guess you could say that I'm on the outside looking in, and some of this just doesn't make sense to me ... yet. But I am trying. In the interim I still like the "experience" of shooting with manual controls and zone focusing with a real manual film camera or on a digital system in manual mode with the bells and whistles turned off.
coralnut wrote:
I like your approach, as I try to replicate the film experience with my digital cameras buy turning everything off and doing everything manually. But then I'm a film guy who begrudgingly had to adopt digital during the Dark Ages when it looked like film would be abandoned forever and digital was the only choice left for photography. Given my own choice for how a camera would work, it would have knobs and aperture rings instead of buttons that activate rotary encoders that manipulate a menu system, and it certainly would not require linking to a smartphone to access it's features.
I'm having a pretty hard time wrapping my mind around how anyone could see the requirement to use a smartphone to access camera features as a good idea. Taking the controls out of the camera and moving them to a tethered computing device (Bluetooth is a wireless tether, but a tether nonetheless) doesn't seem to improve the shooting experience to me, though it definitely makes an electronic device cheaper to produce when the designer offloads the human interface infrastructure to an external computing device. Does that type of progress mean that you're going to have to use the camera manufacturer's app to access the camera's advanced features? While some people might think that is a good idea and go along for the ride, to me it seems like the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes. I just don't see how a camera can be useful if it requires your smartphone to access it's features.
But my comments are probably out of place. I'm not invested into the Leica ecosystem ... yet ... and I guess you could say that I'm on the outside looking in, and some of this just doesn't make sense to me ... yet. But I am trying. In the interim I still like the "experience" of shooting with manual controls and zone focusing with a real manual film camera or on a digital system in manual mode with the bells and whistles turned off.
I think it depends a lot on what you want out of the system. I have a Sony and the full line of lenses, so I'm covered for any serious work. I use the Leica when I want to enjoy the experience of using a camera. It's not that I can't make good pictures with it, I can and do, but it's more that I enjoy the picture making process a lot more with a Leica than with a Canon or Sony.
I have the M10-D and rarely connect it to the fotos app. I'm a fully manual shooter and once I chose the menu settings that I prefer via the app I don't need to go in and change them again, so I'm just using the shutter and ISO dials on the camera. Nice and simple.
RoamingScott wrote:
I would say the amount of anecdotal experiences JUST posted on FM prove that it's more serious than some dismissive word salad would have you believe.
Lieca is NOT the only one making digital rangefinders, but yes, they are the only ones providing the eXpErIeNcE of playing the lottery when buying a $6000+ camera and then making you wait 3-4 months to have it returned to you in working order, maybe.
I suspect many people, especially those tens of thousands into Leica, are too close to it to see it clearly.
If I want a new full frame optical rangefinder that is not Leica, what do I buy? I certainly don't have new M money so would like to know.
RoamingScott wrote:
I would say the amount of anecdotal experiences JUST posted on FM prove that it's more serious than some dismissive word salad would have you believe.
Lieca is NOT the only one making digital rangefinders, but yes, they are the only ones providing the eXpErIeNcE of playing the lottery when buying a $6000+ camera and then making you wait 3-4 months to have it returned to you in working order, maybe.
I suspect many people, especially those tens of thousands into Leica, are too close to it to see it clearly.
Some of the poor experiences you read online are real, but many are trolls that mostly haunt Leica Forum but occasionally do the same thing here. As soon as they're banned on Leica Forum, they make a new account and try again in a few days. Any new account there or here posting their "oh goodness me" experience should be taken with a grain of salt. Their purpose is to rally the same group of us who have had problems and get us to discuss it all over again. That helps create a poor impression of the brand, and even if deserved, it becomes overblown.
