1bwana1 wrote:
So what does delete/format in the M11-D camera look like?
Normally when deleting you choose which media (SD, Internal), which set of images to delete from single or multiple, to all without a star ot certain rating. Then you are asked to confirm before the actual delete takes place. Hard to do this when there is no feedback method.
Same for Format, how do you choose which slot you are formating, and then confirm.
It seems to me that the lack of a screen/EVF reduces protection of your data.
The original M-D does not have delete or format options. To upload images, you have to remove the bottom plate, take out the SD card, and download the DNG files to your computer. Formatting and deletion must also be done on the computer. In that sense, the M11-D 'could' be used in a similar manner, and I don’t see a problem with that. There are great apps like “SD Card Formatter” that make this very easy.
For me personally, I don’t care one way or another because I would never use the Fotos app for a camera like this. I would keep full resolution, auto-WB, and DNG. I prefer auto-WB because it’s something I can easily tweak when importing all images or editing individual raw files.
All this reduction in benefits because you don't have the discipline to not chimp if a screen is available? Again, it makes little sense to me.
100%.
For me, the M11-D only works as intended if you don’t use the smartphone. Perhaps just set the camera up once and then remove the app. This way, I’d have a thinner and lighter M-D, and as long as I avoid using auto-ISO, the shooting experience would be very similar to analog, making it the closest possible to a film camera while still being digital. (which is the point of all this)
Fred Miranda wrote:
The original M-D does not have delete or format options. To upload images, you have to remove the bottom plate, take out the SD card, and download the DNG files to your computer. Formatting and deletion must also be done on the computer. In that sense, the M11-D 'could' be used in a similar manner, and I don’t see a problem with that. There are great apps like “SD Card Formatter” that make this very easy.
For me personally, I don’t care one way or another because I would never use the Fotos app for a camera like this. I would keep full resolution, auto-WB, and DNG. I prefer auto-WB because it’s something I can easily tweak when importing all images or editing individual raw files.
100%.
For me, the M11-D only works as intended if you don’t use the smartphone. Perhaps just set the camera up once and then remove the app. This way, I’d have a thinner and lighter M-D, and as long as I avoid using auto-ISO, the shooting experience would be very similar to analog, making it the closest possible to a film camera while still being digital. (which is the point of all this)...Show more →
OK but now you must deal with internal memory as well as SD cards. Having to maintain these two memories using entirely different methods is a kludge at best.
For me, if I wanted the film experience then I would just shoot film, not some crippled digital camera...
But to each his own. No real harm in having options.
1bwana1 wrote:
OK but now you must deal with internal memory as well as SD cards. Having to maintain these two memories using entirely different methods is a kludge at best.
For me, if I wanted the film experience then I would just shoot film, not some crippled digital camera...
But to each his own. No real harm in having options.
Fair enough. I also prefer shooting film, not just for the experience but for the unique results that can’t be really replicated.
However, shooting film isn't always the look I want or the most practical, especially when traveling, but it has taught me valuable lessons and brings me a lot of joy. I even enjoy the process of developing and scanning.
This shooting approach can actually be applied to any camera. It involves relying on your instinct to manually set exposure (with or without a meter) and avoiding image reviews until you download them to your computer. I learned to set my ISO first, like choosing a film speed, based on lighting conditions, then adjust the shutter or aperture according to what I want to capture, while calculating exposure or sometimes using a meter. You’re right ... you don’t need a “D” camera for this. I use this method even with my Leica M, Fuji or Sony cameras.
What I find counterproductive and backward is relying on a smartphone while shooting, especially with a 'D' series camera. I would not mind shooting with it but as I mentioned, I would never use a EVF or the fotos app with it. I’d essentially set it up just like my M-D and ignore the extra features. I’m sure many others would do the same.
RustyRus wrote:
Man- You shouldn’t have to plunk down 9.3k on a camera and hope they work out the basics- Upgrades, bugs etc are all part of software but maybe Leica is releasing to many new products and not spending time to perfect the ones they are releasing.
I would guess the new Q43 will bring in magnitudes more in revenue- so to me it seems like laziness and distraction to other products.
i would be frustrated to drop that kind of money- This coming from someone with 50K invested in Leica gear- Get the core functionality in the camera from day one- Not day XXX- ...Show more →
By kinks I meant missing features, not bugs. The current firmware for M11/M11-P/M11M is stable.
highdesertmesa wrote:
By kinks I meant missing features, not bugs. The current firmware for M11/M11-P/M11M is stable.
Indeed. Not a single hiccup since I've been shooting with the M11 for almost a month of heavy usage. Leica has finally fixed the various issues causing freezing. Are there any reports of M11 shooters experiencing issues?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Indeed. Not a single hiccup since I've been shooting with the M11 for almost a month of heavy usage. Leica has finally fixed the various issues causing freezing. Are there any reports of M11 shooters experiencing issues?
I am glad to see you were finally able to get to a happy place with the M11. Enjoy!
1bwana1 wrote:
I am glad to see you were finally able to get to a happy place with the M11. Enjoy!
for what it's worth, I have both the M11M and M11P. Not a single issue upgrading them to the current firmware and not a single freeze/file corruption or anything else.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Indeed. Not a single hiccup since I've been shooting with the M11 for almost a month of heavy usage. Leica has finally fixed the various issues causing freezing. Are there any reports of M11 shooters experiencing issues?
I think there are two or three people on Leica Forum who get an occasional overexposure issue where the ISO value jumps way up. A few other reports that I think are older units with a hardware issue requiring a visit to Germany. The latter are one-offs that may or may not be real people but rather trolls and troublemakers, hard to know.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Indeed. Not a single hiccup since I've been shooting with the M11 for almost a month of heavy usage. Leica has finally fixed the various issues causing freezing. Are there any reports of M11 shooters experiencing issues?
With the latest firmware I haven’t had a single issue on the P or M
1bwana1 wrote:
I am glad to see you were finally able to get to a happy place with the M11. Enjoy!
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brick33308 wrote:
for what it's worth, I have both the M11M and M11P. Not a single issue upgrading them to the current firmware and not a single freeze/file corruption or anything else.
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highdesertmesa wrote:
I think there are two or three people on Leica Forum who get an occasional overexposure issue where the ISO value jumps way up. A few other reports that I think are older units with a hardware issue requiring a visit to Germany. The latter are one-offs that may or may not be real people but rather trolls and troublemakers, hard to know.
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rsolti13 wrote:
With the latest firmware I haven’t had a single issue on the P or M
It took Leica almost three years to perfect the M11 series firmware. I knew it would happen, but it was definitely frustrating for users dealing with issues all this time. I’m glad it’s stable now. Ready for the M12!
stgrove wrote:
I for one am NOT ready for the M12.
I mainly use the M for its rangefinder, and since there haven’t been significant improvements in that area, it’s hard to justify getting newer models. Yes, there is higher resolution, better metering, more software options, and connectivity enhancements, but for my personal use, I’d be perfectly happy with the original M10 as my only Leica M. Even the M240 series is still pretty amazing today for the rangefinder experience.
Some things that I've thought about that make me hesitate to buy an M11-D:
Internal memory: having to connect the camera to the computer to access the internal memory to delete images or format it. The alternative for stress-free/app-free use is to only use SD cards and never use the internal memory. Leica could fix this by allowing formatting directly from the camera.
Lens detection: even if lens detection is set to off, attaching a 6-bit coded lens sets it back to auto, which means the next uncoded lens attached gets assigned the last manually selected M lens profile. This means every time I change uncoded lenses or change from a 6-bit coded lens to an uncoded lens I have to connect to the phone and use the app. The alternative is to only have one uncoded lens or only use uncoded lenses in conjunction with lens detection being set to off. Leica could fix this in firmware so that lens detection would stay off even if a 6-bit coded lens is attached – just add a second off option called "off for all lenses".
Rangefinder display codes: way too many codes requiring I keep a cheat sheet on my person or phone.
The ultimate fix for me would be for Leica to allow full menu access via the Visoflex 2 so I never had to touch the app.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Some things that I've thought about that make me hesitate to buy an M11-D:
Internal memory: having to connect the camera to the computer to access the internal memory to delete images or format it. The alternative for stress-free/app-free use is to only use SD cards and never use the internal memory. Leica could fix this by allowing formatting directly from the camera.
Lens detection: even if lens detection is set to off, attaching a 6-bit coded lens sets it back to auto, which means the next uncoded lens attached gets assigned the last manually selected M lens profile. This means every time I change uncoded lenses or change from a 6-bit coded lens to an uncoded lens I have to connect to the phone and use the app. The alternative is to only have one uncoded lens or only use uncoded lenses in conjunction with lens detection being set to off. Leica could fix this in firmware so that lens detection would stay off even if a 6-bit coded lens is attached – just add a second off option called "off for all lenses".
Rangefinder display codes: way too many codes requiring I keep a cheat sheet on my person or phone.
The ultimate fix for me would be for Leica to allow full menu access via the Visoflex 2 so I never had to touch the app. ...Show more →
Why put up with those and the many other deficiencies in workflow that the M11-D imposes. Just get an M11-P and don't chimp, or put it in a half case that hide the rear screen.
Maybe I will design a shock collar that punishes the photographer every time he tries to chimp. I could make it BlueTooth enabled. I would call in "Chimp Nanny" or something like that....
1bwana1 wrote:
Why put up with those and the many other deficiencies in workflow that the M11-D imposes. Just get an M11-P and don't chimp, or put it in a half case that hide the rear screen.
Maybe I will design a shock collar that punishes the photographer every time he tries to chimp. I could make it BlueTooth enabled. I would call in "Chimp Nanny" or something like that....
I really liked the fake advance lever on M10-D but didn't like the EV ring on the back. Now, in my opinion, the ISO setting is in the right place but no advance lever
I think screen-less camera is brilliant. It would really make you focus on the process of photography. You would seriously have to intend to take a photo, know your camera, know your settings based on the light and composition of the scene on that particular focal length. I've done this with film cameras back in the day, but nowadays I don't miss the hassle of film rolls, development and stuff. All in all, that was all fun back then, but I'm done with the chemicals part. But I miss the process.
That's why I would seriously consider buying a screen-less Leica. For the pure process. It is not the same to get a full case for my M11, it is not the same to leave photo preview off or not to use the screen. I can try to imitate the "screen-less process" but there is always that annoying thought that 'I COULD check the results now' or 'I COULD take just a brief look of the live view'. Some people will get this, some don't. And that's OK. This condenses to the journey, not the destination.
I totally get screen-less camera as a product. I also totally get a digital rangefinder camera as a product. Different people like different details of the products they are willing to get. For example, some Sony camera might be technically superior, but ergonomically reminds a brick, and still some people will choose over - say - Hasselblad for its ergonomics and design.
What I don't get in this topic is the pure hate for and unwillingness to accept a screen-less Leica to exist.
tommmi wrote:
What I don't get in this topic is the pure hate for and unwillingness to accept a screen-less Leica to exist.
Nobody hates, or is unwilling to accept. Leica wouldn't make the camera if they didn't feel that it would appeal to enough users to be profitable. Everyone should buy the products that suits them best. Options are good.
I see this sort of like automobile transmissions. Modern transmissions are amazing and can shift better than the most proficient race driver. Still some prefer to drive manual transmissions with no synchromesh, and straight cut gears. They like the process and the challenge. Don't win races against modern cars that way anymore however.
I just bought a couple of 1GB SD cards for my M-D. Now I have only 36 exposures, and the camera shows the remaining images in the optical viewfinder.
Now, every shot counts just like shooting film. These cameras are for crazies like us.
This way, I’d have a thinner and lighter M-D, and as long as I avoid using auto-ISO, the shooting experience would be very similar to analog, making it the closest possible to a film camera while still being digital. (which is the point of all this)
Sign me up!