Fred Miranda wrote:
You did a great job expressing your opinion with facts. However, I recommend leaving it as is now. As I mentioned, there seems to be some excuse-making happening. When I purchased the M11 as soon it was released, I reported freezes, while most on other platforms claimed their cameras were perfect from the start. Finally with the latest firmware, I don't experience any freezes anymore, but it's important to be honest with our reports and opinions.
I considered the M11-D as a replacement for my M-D Typ 262, but I decided against it because it seems too complex. It would mean replacing screen chimping with phone chimping, especially for adjusting various settings. What I appreciate about the M-D is that it limits adjustments to only the essentials: aperture, shutter speed, and ISO. As I mentioned before, I think Leica had it right at that time....Show more →
Thats really interesting feedback- There really isn't a reason to not go with the M11-P besides looks. Having to control everything from a phone seems to defeat the purpose of it a bit-
I see. It's odd that there's no formatting option when using the Fotos app. I've seen a review where the M10-D supports "SD" formatting through the Fotos app. Given that the M11-D is more complex, offering two types of storage, it likely requires an update to the Fotos app code. However, I believe Leica will eventually provide this feature.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I see. It's odd that there's no formatting option when using the Fotos app. I've seen a review where the M10-D supports "SD" formatting through the Fotos app. Given that the M11-D is more complex, offering two types of storage, it likely requires an update to the Fotos app code. However, I believe Leica will eventually provide this feature.
I think they probably didn't include memory formatting from the app because of the recent firmware issue across M11/Q3/SL3 where files where being lost when cards or batteries were being hot swapped. Putting the M11-D into a "don't touch the memory" state probably allowed them to continue the development of the D firmware and app without having to worry about that. I agree that we'll see the formatting option get added in the future.
highdesertmesa wrote:
I think they probably didn't include memory formatting from the app because of the recent firmware issue across M11/Q3/SL3 where files where being lost when cards or batteries were being hot swapped. Putting the M11-D into a "don't touch the memory" state probably allowed them to continue the development of the D firmware and app without having to worry about that. I agree that we'll see the formatting option get added in the future.
If the above is true, then it supports my assumption that Leica software engineers are sub-standard.
Perhaps the product manager of the M11D input his own minimal beliefs into the camera instead of making life easier for the ones who buy it.
Worse yet he convinced all beta testers to go along with the ridiculous decision to NOT allow formatting of either mediums in the camera NOR in the Fotos app.
Agree with Fred when he mentions the need to use iPhones/etc to control a camera is exactly what we want to get away from when creating images. Personally I never use the Foto app on any Leica I own.
stgrove wrote:
Perhaps the product manager of the M11D input his own minimal beliefs into the camera instead of making life easier for the ones who buy it.
Worse yet he convinced all beta testers to go along with the ridiculous decision to NOT allow formatting of either mediums in the camera NOR in the Fotos app.
Agree with Fred when he mentions the need to use iPhones/etc to control a camera is exactly what we want to get away from when creating images. Personally I never use the Foto app on any Leica I own.
The FOTOS App is as much about distribution, and remote control techniques as it is for creation, chimping, or camera configuration. In fact the D Fotos App is the only one that goes into the camera menus for configuration. The others only expose shooting type controls. For the D cameras the FOTOS App serve as a poor replacement for a rear screen and/or EVF.
Personally I believe there could be much more elegant solutions to the rear screen issue for D cameras.
Take a look at the quick start guide or the manual itself. The long list of key-ins for controlling and changing various items is so long it seems one has to take a cheat sheet along with them just in case.
The point I am trying to make is that two or four more commands to format SD or internal memory would have been easy to implement.
stgrove wrote:
Take a look at the quick start guide or the manual itself. The long list of key-ins for controlling and changing various items is so long it seems one has to take a cheat sheet along with them just in case.
The point I am trying to make is that two or four more commands to format SD or internal memory would have been easy to implement.
How would you know that?
Anyone whose has ever worked a job where the end product appears simple but yet sits atop a hundred different dependencies has heard that, “But can’t you just…” line.
Is all I know that something is amiss with the M11D. It is not my job to figure it out since I pay plenty for Leica to do that and they missed it big time this time.
Trying to figure out how Leica does things is fruitless. I worked in and with German companies long enough to know that at times company internal philosophy is the most difficult to discern....
stgrove wrote:
Is all I know that something is amiss with the M11D. It is not my job to figure it out since I pay plenty for Leica to do that and they missed it big time this time.
Trying to figure out how Leica does things is fruitless. I worked in and with German companies long enough to know that at times company internal philosophy is the most difficult to discern....
I think they will work out the kinks, unless your disappointment is around the hardware, such as the lack of the lever thumb rest.
highdesertmesa wrote:
I think they will work out the kinks, unless your disappointment is around the hardware, such as the lack of the lever thumb rest.
Man- You shouldn’t have to plunk down 9.3k on a camera and hope they work out the basics- Upgrades, bugs etc are all part of software but maybe Leica is releasing to many new products and not spending time to perfect the ones they are releasing.
I would guess the new Q43 will bring in magnitudes more in revenue- so to me it seems like laziness and distraction to other products.
i would be frustrated to drop that kind of money- This coming from someone with 50K invested in Leica gear- Get the core functionality in the camera from day one- Not day XXX-
I believe Leica often relies on user feedback/complaints to make adjustments. For example, they might have assumed the format issue wouldn't be problematic and decided to remove the feature to avoid dedicating resources to a software tweak. However, given the recent uproar, they may now reconsider and start addressing it.
At least this isn't a bug like the previous freezing issues, which were caused by numerous variables. This one should be straightforward for them to address. However, there are no guarantees that this will be fixed or that the solution will be available quickly, though.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I believe Leica often relies on user feedback/complaints to make adjustments. For example, they might have assumed the format issue wouldn't be problematic and decided to remove the feature to avoid dedicating resources to a software tweak. However, given the recent uproar, they may now reconsider and start addressing it.
At least this isn't a bug like the previous freezing issues, which were caused by numerous variables. This one should be straightforward for them to address. However, there are no guarantees that this will be fixed or that the solution will be available quickly, though.
So what does delete/format in the M11-D camera look like?
Normally when deleting you choose which media (SD, Internal), which set of images to delete from single or multiple, to all without a star ot certain rating. Then you are asked to confirm before the actual delete takes place. Hard to do this when there is no feedback method.
Same for Format, how do you choose which slot you are formating, and then confirm.
It seems to me that the lack of a screen/EVF reduces protection of your data.
All this reduction in benefits because you don't have the discipline to not chimp if a screen is available? Again, it makes little sense to me.
