By Ian Lyons
"Currently, the Apple Neural Engine found in M1/M2 silicon Macs is not used by Denoise. It's expected that performance will be even better when Denoise does use the Apple Neural Engine."
"Apparently, an issue on Apple side means that the Neural Engine is not used by Adobe Denoise. When the issue is addressed, then Adobe Denoise is ready to take advantage of the Neural Engine."
Then confirmed by Rikk Flohr
"information is correct regarding the Neural Engine on Apple devices"
Interestingly, DxO PL6 can use the neural engine of my MBP M2 Max, and the processing time is faster than when using the GPU. However, the resulting images display a hint of a pink color cast. I thought the problem was with the PL6 software. Obviously if Adobe denoising cannot use the neural engines, the problem must be with the MacOS (unless Adobe denoising works like DxO denoising, and there is a common problem there).
By Ian Lyons
"Currently, the Apple Neural Engine found in M1/M2 silicon Macs is not used by Denoise. It's expected that performance will be even better when Denoise does use the Apple Neural Engine."
"Apparently, an issue on Apple side means that the Neural Engine is not used by Adobe Denoise. When the issue is addressed, then Adobe Denoise is ready to take advantage of the Neural Engine."
Then confirmed by Rikk Flohr
"information is correct regarding the Neural Engine on Apple devices"
ruthenium wrote:
Interestingly, DxO PL6 can use the neural engine of my MBP M2 Max, and the processing time is faster than when using the GPU. However, the resulting images display a hint of a pink color cast. I thought the problem was with the PL6 software. Obviously if Adobe denoising cannot use the neural engines, the problem must be with the MacOS (unless Adobe denoising works like DxO denoising, and there is a common problem there).
Reading the threads it's not clear if it's the same problem or not but it is clear that Adobe currently isn't using the neural cores for some reason. That said, that makes the M1 Mac performance even more amazing IMO, as currently my M1 Ultra Studios can match the performance of an Nvidia 4080 GPU--not quite top of the line, but very close. Once the neural cores are able to work, we should see a pretty big performance boost.
i7 9700K, 32GB RAM, SSD drives & RTX 3070 (used Inno3D X2 with 12 months warranty for the price of a new cheapest RTX 3060 12GB). RAW files from Sony A7RIII - 42Mpx
One image (time from Denoise button clicking /holding shift/ to a new file): 20s
One image from the Denoise window (time from clicking the Enhance button to creating a new file): 15s
Batch of 40 images: all together in 578s, average time per image is a bit under 14.5s
The GPU gets very hot and consumes a lot of power during batch processing (GPU temperature 85 °C, power consumption up to 225 W), it only has 2 fans, so they both run at maximum speed.
Processing 40 images is faster, than using the integrated GPU in 9700K for a single image.
mcbroomf wrote:
GPU just arrived (MSI RTX 3060 / 12GB). Install went OK, driver updated to latest Studio. Only run 1 testfile in LRC so far but from 3-4 minutes it dropped to ~30 seconds. I can live with that ...
I just installed that same board in my desktop, which is a 6-8 year old build: Haswell motherboard, 3.4GHz Xeon, with 32mb RAM and a pretty basic SSD.
I'm only working with Z6ii files, but it does AI Denoise in maybe 10-12 seconds. As far as I'm concerned, that's pretty amazing performance.
Ondrej wrote:
i7 9700K, 32GB RAM, SSD drives & RTX 3070 (used Inno3D X2 with 12 months warranty for the price of a new cheapest RTX 3060 12GB). RAW files from Sony A7RIII - 42Mpx
One image (time from Denoise button clicking /holding shift/ to a new file): 20s
One image from the Denoise window (time from clicking the Enhance button to creating a new file): 15s
Batch of 40 images: all together in 578s, average time per image is a bit under 14.5s
The GPU gets very hot and consumes a lot of power during batch processing (GPU temperature 85 °C, power consumption up to 225 W), it only has 2 fans, so they both run at maximum speed.
Processing 40 images is faster, than using the integrated GPU in 9700K for a single image....Show more →
This is very similar to the performance of my RTX 4080. This would imply that's there an upper limit at the moment for performance which I find slightly surprising, as the tensor cores in the 40x0 series are supposed to be faster than the previous generation in the 30x0 series. My guess is that we'll see continued gains in performance as Adobe further updates this new bit of code, but the bright side is that the cost to get good performance isn't terribly high, as the older 30x0-series cards are getting quite reasonable now.
This is also one of the reasons I decided to do a temporary upgrade. With more processing on a GPU and some differences between Macs and PCs I want to wait a while to see where things fall. As I recall you're seeing little or no difference between the 4080 and the Studio Ultra for Denoise. I definitely want to see how that plays out when (?) Apple and Adobe are playing well together. And more parts of the programs may get loaded on the GPU as well.
mcbroomf wrote:
This is also one of the reasons I decided to do a temporary upgrade. With more processing on a GPU and some differences between Macs and PCs I want to wait a while to see where things fall. As I recall you're seeing little or no difference between the 4080 and the Studio Ultra for Denoise. I definitely want to see how that plays out when (?) Apple and Adobe are playing well together. And more parts of the programs may get loaded on the GPU as well.
That's correct, the Studio Ultra and the 4080 both put in similar times but without the Studio using its Neural Engine cores, so I do expect that to change--and probably by a lot--when those are enabled. Basically all of the Apple Silicon machines are temporarily hobbled at the moment until Adobe sets them up to use the neural engines.
mcbroomf wrote:
Version 12.3 released. Introduces AI Denoise. Also curves in Masking and a few other things. Denoise also added to PS ACR (15.3)
Sadly looks like it's unusable on my i7 7xxx Win 10 desktop machine. The preview window pops up and says 5 mins but over 10 now and just the whirly dots. Will test out on my M1 MBP when I get a chance. Topaz AI only takes about a minute to render a preview.
I'm late to the show here and I have not read all 12 pages in the thread, but...
... at the insistence of a couple of photographer friends, I tried out the AI Denoise (in ACR), even though I was skeptical, thinking that I can do as well manually.
A bit to my surprise, it works really well. It is especially useful on low light, high ISO photographs I have of migratory birds. It does a fine job of drastically reducing noise while not losing detail.
I'm on Mac. I'm a Photoshop user, so I use the feature in ACR.
gdanmitchell wrote:
I'm late to the show here and I have not read all 12 pages in the thread, but...
... at the insistence of a couple of photographer friends, I tried out the AI Denoise, even though I was skeptical, thinking that I can do as well manually.
A bit to my surprise, it works really well. It is especially useful on low light, high ISO photographs I have of migratory birds. It does a fine job of drastically reducing noise while not losing detail.
I'm on Mac. I'm a Photoshop user, so I use the feature in ACR.
In my opinion they came out of the gate with a winner. I've been using and testing all the major players over the last 14 months or so--DxO, ON1, Topaz and now Lightroom. Overall I felt Topaz was the best...WAS. I haven't opened or touched any other DeNoise app since this Lightroom release came out. It's killer good.
jhapeman wrote:
In my opinion they came out of the gate with a winner. I've been using and testing all the major players over the last 14 months or so--DxO, ON1, Topaz and now Lightroom. Overall I felt Topaz was the best...WAS. I haven't opened or touched any other DeNoise app since this Lightroom release came out. It's killer good.
Me neither. All those apps except Topaz Sharpen AI have been removed off my OS. Still fine tuning my post Denoise for the basic and the detail panels.
Hey Adobe, where is my Sharpen AI feature for LrC? 😀
jhapeman wrote:
In my opinion they came out of the gate with a winner. I've been using and testing all the major players over the last 14 months or so--DxO, ON1, Topaz and now Lightroom. Overall I felt Topaz was the best...WAS. I haven't opened or touched any other DeNoise app since this Lightroom release came out. It's killer good.
I think that the real test — and so far it has passed with flying colors — is how much it can improve marginal files. Good files are already good enough that a bit of NR isn't a big deal, but files from shooting in very marginal conditions often end up on the margin between being usable and not being usable. The new feature seems to push a good number of them into teh usable domain.
gdanmitchell wrote:
I think that the real test — and so far it has passed with flying colors — is how much it can improve margins files. Good files are already good enough that a bit of NR isn't a big deal, but files from shooting in very marginal conditions often end up on the margin between being usable and not being usable. The new feature seems to push a good number of them into teh usable domain.
Yes, I would agree. Shots that in the past I felt were too noisy--and got just mushed by NR or had issues with blotchiness--seem to be much more workable with Adobe's denoise. In particular I feel it handles smooth areas much better than any of its competitors, all of which create some blotchiness in those areas which I find more objectionable than the noise.
I can't be positive if this is not a coincidence. I just got my 4 year old 27" iMac back from service. I knew it was full of dust. I just ran about 5 files in a row and the fans never kicked in once. They were kicking into high gear pretty frequently. Seems like processing time shaved off about 9 seconds. The fan makes sense but not sure if the time can actually be affected.
