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Archive 2023 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

  
 
Zenon Char
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p.19 #1 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Erictator wrote:
Part of it may be my own fault and initial expectations that got off on the wrong foot years ago... I cut my teeth on Photoshop early days at work. It was expensive back then, and at the time when I first was aware of LR years ago, it was pitched to me as an inexpensive alternative to PS, like "PS Lite" as photo editing software. When I loaded it for home use, it became readily apparent that it was definitely NOT "PS Lite" and that it was primarily an organizer with some editing capabilities.

Fast forward to modern times, I
...Show more

NP. It took me while to figure out LrC and the catalogue system. I posted in case others are reading. Nothing wrong someone who does not like a catalogue or LrC's catalogue system. I would hate to see someone not try it out, etc because they think it takes over control. It doesn't. The user has full control. I've opened Canon DPP, DOX, etc edited files and it never affected my LrC edits.

There is not much to it. A few simple rules. Make sure the catalogue knows where all your files are located and when you exit check the Optimization and Check Integrity boxes. When I move or create a new folder/s I use LrC. It isn't any faster using the OS and you can just forget about it.

Yeah the previews can get pretty big. It will build them when you import but not when you move files. So if you import 100,000 files it will take a while. In the catalogue settings you can set up when to discard them. One day, one week, one month or never. I keep them around in case I open old files. Mines about 30GB but I've got the space. My 500GB drive isn't even half full even with the previews.

Lr which has been the cloudy version since 2018 had a big update last fall. I think now it is version 7 and you can store files in the cloud or locally now. It was only cloud storage before that version. It is not as robust as LrC but there is no catalogue either. I can see one day LrC and Lr merging which is fine with me and it seems a natural progression if whatever they call it is as robust as LrC. Then I may try cloud storage. Currently I have no interest and have never installed Lr. If Adobe ever ticks me off the cancel plan button is only 10 seconds away

For others that are reading you can sync LrC to the cloud but it does not send your actual files, only Smart Previews that are so small they do not count towards cloud storage space. You can edit them on other devices including mobile and those edits will sync back to LrC.

Any thanks for replying and good luck in your endeavours.




May 07, 2024 at 12:45 PM
Zenon Char
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p.19 #2 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


If anyone is interested on transitioning from LrC to Lr.

&t=2s



May 08, 2024 at 09:18 AM
gus6464
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p.19 #3 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


I just built a new system with a core i9 13900k and an Intel arc a770 16gb and to be honest this card is a steal for what I paid ($200 open box). If someone wants to send me the 60mp test file I can do the denoise timed test in LR to add to the spreadsheet.

I will add that the GPU is very optimized in topaz as that is one of Intel's partners. I was going to buy a refurb 3090 for the 24gb of vram but not really finding a need.



May 15, 2024 at 04:12 AM
mcbroomf
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p.19 #4 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


gus6464 wrote:
I just built a new system with a core i9 13900k and an Intel arc a770 16gb and to be honest this card is a steal for what I paid ($200 open box). If someone wants to send me the 60mp test file I can do the denoise timed test in LR to add to the spreadsheet.

I will add that the GPU is very optimized in topaz as that is one of Intel's partners. I was going to buy a refurb 3090 for the 24gb of vram but not really finding a need.


Here's the link to download the raw file for testing.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15UAKmx9IA1k2Zt877ShHeUewCcHquyhu/view

I have not been updating the table as it was made using LRC 12.4 and there were changes to times when Adobe release 13.* It would be good to see what an Intel GPU does though, maybe add it as a footnote. Thanks ...




May 15, 2024 at 04:52 AM
mcbroomf
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p.19 #5 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


I just fired up my new PC desktop. Spec from this thread though I went with the 4080 Super rather than the 4070 Super Ti
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1856674/0#16538124

I have not yet migrated all images from the catalog, but I've copied the LRC catalog onto the 2TB NVMe (OS and programs are on the 1TB NVMe). I copied some images over and ran an Adobe Denoise test (60MP A7R4 test file) and got a time of ~16 seconds (not using a stop watch so might be a sec or so either way). This is a few seconds more than might be from the table, but I'm using LRC 13.2 (current, new install of course), vs 12.4 for the table. Times went up by a few seconds after Adobe switched to compressed DNG when 13 came out so it looks like the machine is on track. A good bit faster than the 3060 in my old PC. Looking forward to seeing how it will do with all other PP once my migration is finished.



May 18, 2024 at 02:51 PM
gus6464
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p.19 #6 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


How is everyone timing the denoise operation? From beginning to end counting the DNG creation or just the actual process to right before it creates the DNG?
Reason being is that LR says it will take 10s on the (60MP A7R4 test file) with my 3090 gpu but actual is a little less than double because of the DNG creation.



May 22, 2024 at 12:03 AM
mcbroomf
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p.19 #7 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


gus6464 wrote:
How is everyone timing the denoise operation? From beginning to end counting the DNG creation or just the actual process to right before it creates the DNG?
Reason being is that LR says it will take 10s on the (60MP A7R4 test file) with my 3090 gpu but actual is a little less than double because of the DNG creation.


We all timed it from when the Enhance Preview window opened and you press Enhance to when the DNG file is created



May 22, 2024 at 04:06 AM
capricorn
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p.19 #8 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


I have been thinking about upgrading my GPU from a GTX 1660 Ti in my i9-9900 / PCIe 3.0 system to something more powerful to speed up LR Denoise and other AI-based apps (DxO, Topaz).

The discussion here has been very helpful to understand possibilities and limitations of available options. I'm currently looking at RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB vs RTX 4070. Anything more advanced would require a new PSU and is outside my budget.

Since the table on p. 15 does not explicitly mention VRAM but tensor cores -

Can I expect RTX 4070 with more cores but less VRAM to perform better than RTX 4060 with 16 GB ?



Jun 03, 2024 at 09:50 AM
jhapeman
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p.19 #9 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


capricorn wrote:
I have been thinking about upgrading my GPU from a GTX 1660 Ti in my i9-9900 / PCIe 3.0 system to something more powerful to speed up LR Denoise and other AI-based apps (DxO, Topaz).

The discussion here has been very helpful to understand possibilities and limitations of available options. I'm currently looking at RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB vs RTX 4070. Anything more advanced would require a new PSU and is outside my budget.

Since the table on p. 15 does not explicitly mention VRAM but tensor cores -

Can I expect RTX 4070 with more cores but less VRAM to
...Show more

Yes, but how much less RAM and how many more cores? That's pretty important. If you are talking about a 4070Ti with 12GB you should be fine.



Jun 03, 2024 at 02:00 PM
mcbroomf
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p.19 #10 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


The numbers in the table are for denoise only of course with the emphasis on Tensor cores. Not sure if Topaz and DXO use them. Topaz seem to be pretty open about answering tech queries so I would ask them.

I think the 4070 was replaced by the 4070 Super at the same price. Might be worth checking that.



Jun 03, 2024 at 05:19 PM
jhapeman
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p.19 #11 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


mcbroomf wrote:
The numbers in the table are for denoise only of course with the emphasis on Tensor cores. Not sure if Topaz and DXO use them. Topaz seem to be pretty open about answering tech queries so I would ask them.

I think the 4070 was replaced by the 4070 Super at the same price. Might be worth checking that.


The Super is still underpowered compared to the Ti though. Kind of an odd mix of cards:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/rtx-4070-family/



Jun 03, 2024 at 05:24 PM
mcbroomf
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p.19 #12 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Yes, you just pay more.

Looks like the 4070 is still available



Jun 04, 2024 at 03:31 AM
capricorn
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p.19 #13 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Many thanks for your comments!

Here's what I found regarding the different 4070 variants:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53769207263_62c1f76020_o.jpg



My constraints:
- budget ~600€
- silent card -> Asus ProArt
- needs to work with existing PSU 600W (max. 650W)

There are just two options left for which the 4070 (OC) seems to be the best, given the fact that for AI Denoise (which is my main use case) the VRAM size doesn't make a difference when looking at the 4060.



Jun 04, 2024 at 09:35 AM
Erictator
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p.19 #14 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


capricorn wrote:

Many thanks for your comments!

Here's what I found regarding the different 4070 variants:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53769207263_62c1f76020_o.jpg



My constraints:
- budget ~600€
- silent card -> Asus ProArt
- needs to work with existing PSU 600W (max. 650W)

There are just two options left for which the 4070 (OC) seems to be the best, given the fact that for AI Denoise (which is my main use case) the VRAM size doesn't make a difference when looking at the 4060.


I went with the Asus Dual 4070 OC for similar reasons. I couldn't be happier. The card is quiet, and sips power with silent fan when you are doing normal PC work, and even when processing multiple large 120MB Uncompressed RAW's, it barely spools up at all. I let the ASUS util auto-manage it, and it's never laggy.

Eric



Jun 04, 2024 at 09:54 AM
mcbroomf
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p.19 #15 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


I noticed that Art Is Right published a MBA video a couple of months ago. He added a lot of Denoise data and I put together a table and graph showing the effect of the GPU corecount on the time to Denoise. The data was generated using a Nikon 36MP raw file so it can't be compared to the 60MP A7R5 file we have been using. Nevertheless the graph shows the diminishing returns (@ maybe 30 cores) for this one task. He was using LRC 13.2 so this is still GPU cores.

He gave me the OK to republish his data last year. I just sent him a note about the switch to Neural cores with 13.3 and the latest Mac OS so we may see some revised data on one of his next videos

Artisright May 24 MAc Denoise by Mike Broomfield, on Flickr





Jun 08, 2024 at 08:34 AM
lsquare
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p.19 #16 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Has there been any testing done on 60 MP files with the RTX 3090 and the RTX 4090? I'm wondering if there is any meaningful increase in performance going from a 3090 to a 4090.


Aug 28, 2024 at 05:20 AM
lsquare
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p.19 #17 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)




gus6464 wrote:
How is everyone timing the denoise operation? From beginning to end counting the DNG creation or just the actual process to right before it creates the DNG?
Reason being is that LR says it will take 10s on the (60MP A7R4 test file) with my 3090 gpu but actual is a little less than double because of the DNG creation.


What are the specs of your PC? Are you saying that it took almost 20 seconds to denoise and create the new DNG file?



Aug 28, 2024 at 05:25 AM
mcbroomf
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p.19 #18 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


lsquare wrote:
Has there been any testing done on 60 MP files with the RTX 3090 and the RTX 4090? I'm wondering if there is any meaningful increase in performance going from a 3090 to a 4090.


What do you consider meaningful? Everyone's criteria is different.

Bare in mind that you can't compare numbers from the table to tests done today due to the changes in LRC (the table was filled in when we were using 12.3)



Aug 28, 2024 at 06:11 AM
lsquare
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p.19 #19 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)




mcbroomf wrote:
What do you consider meaningful? Everyone's criteria is different.

Bare in mind that you can't compare numbers from the table to tests done today due to the changes in LRC (the table was filled in when we were using 12.3)


Is it at least 25% faster?



Aug 28, 2024 at 08:58 AM
mcbroomf
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p.19 #20 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)


Are you asking about old vs new LRC? If so the more recent version was slower last time I checked.


Aug 28, 2024 at 10:23 AM
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