Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
p.20 #1Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
chez wrote:
Compared to an A1, it's leaps and bounds ahead the RV. Couldn't imagine hearing a mechanical shutter again, couldn't stand rolling shutter again, couldn't go back again to mechanical shutter strobe sync at studio or on location. And now I am so used to the A1 that I could never go back to anything without at least 30 fps. I seriously doubt the RV performs 120 af calculations per second to earn the Best AF in the world prize. And the A1 proverbial sticky AF faded so quickly? Don't think so.
I'm also not going to buy an A1 II when released. My A1 will last at least 5 years more. Tired about 3 years lifespan and giving my money to Sony for camera bodies that depreciate at automobile's rates. So, no thanks. No new camera will make me a better photographer. I will buy lenses instead
But yes, 8-stop IBIS and new tilt-style lcd are attractive features, but not sufficient to sell my oldish and slowish A7 RIII which in my experience has the best DR, cleanest high ISO and highest IQ in the complete Sony ecosystem (better than A1 also). But this is my opinion forged by very demanding post processing techniques applied in low light photography.Yes, I'm with you also. Cameras are becoming a real investment/expense these days. I've never ever been so invested in photography gear since I use Sony equipment. My Canon days were far far lot cheaper and equally rewarding, quality/results wise. Well, it was not Plesitocene, but long ago. I'm getting older, I suppose I look at your profile and you have 4 very capable cameras. Do you need all four? You also have a bucket full of lenses...again, do you need all of them? I'm thinking you are more to blame for your increased cost of photography than Sony.
Yeah, nice observation I like cameras and lenses, it's obvious.
JeyB wrote
RoamingScott wrote
All of those reasons are why the RV seems like a total non starter. The price is too close to falling A1 prices, all for IQ worse than the A7R2. Maybe at EDU prices, though…JeyB wrote
Not for me, for sure!Compared to an A1, it's leaps and bounds ahead the RV. Couldn't imagine hearing a mechanical shutter again, couldn't stand rolling shutter again, couldn't go back again to mechanical shutter strobe sync at studio or on location. And now I am so used to the A1 that I could never go back to anything without at least 30 fps. I seriously doubt the RV performs 120 af calculations per second to earn the Best AF in the world prize. And the A1 proverbial sticky AF faded so quickly? Don't think so.
I'm also not going to buy an A1 II when released. My A1 will last at least 5 years more. Tired about 3 years lifespan and giving my money to Sony for camera bodies that depreciate at automobile's rates. So, no thanks. No new camera will make me a better photographer. I will buy lenses instead
But yes, 8-stop IBIS and new tilt-style lcd are attractive features, but not sufficient to sell my oldish and slowish A7 RIII which in my experience has the best DR, cleanest high ISO and highest IQ in the complete Sony ecosystem (better than A1 also). But this is my opinion forged by very demanding post processing techniques applied in low light photography.
Yeah, nice observation
I like cameras and lenses, it's obvious.Oct 31, 2022 at 05:43 PM
p.20 #2Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Can I please ask how to avail of the educator’s discount for the A7RIV?
novalaker wrote:
Ultra-sonic dust busting
Tilt and flip screen
Better/faster menu
RAW sizes and lossless compressed
But I was hoping that Sony would do some real changes around computational photography. Yeah, we get focus bracketing (finally), but no in-camera stack, nor did we get that from multi-shot either. If their answer is Imaging Edge, it’s a lousy answer.
The short answer is the RV looks like a nice upgrade, but the cost differential is just too steep for what I’m getting as a landscape shooter for me to actually upgrade.
The one thing that keeps me drooling over the OM-1 remains the computational features, especially LiveND. They just solve issues I have working light and in the field.I'm a current M43 shooter and looking to upgrade from my G9. Lately I've been looking at used prices of A7RIV and wondering if they will drop further. I can even get a new one for $2600 as an educator. But I'm wondering if the image quality improvements will outweigh the usability of something like the OM-1, with HHHR and Live ND (plus better weather sealing), which is also a better wildlife/sports camera. I do really like the Sony ecosystem however and I think investing in it would be a good long-term decision, while I'm less sure about the future...Show more →
novalaker wrote:
mawz wrote
As an RIV user, Sony has solved all the quality of life complaints I had about the RIV.Ultra-sonic dust busting
Tilt and flip screen
Better/faster menu
RAW sizes and lossless compressed
But I was hoping that Sony would do some real changes around computational photography. Yeah, we get focus bracketing (finally), but no in-camera stack, nor did we get that from multi-shot either. If their answer is Imaging Edge, it’s a lousy answer.
The short answer is the RV looks like a nice upgrade, but the cost differential is just too steep for what I’m getting as a landscape shooter for me to actually upgrade.
The one thing that keeps me drooling over the OM-1 remains the computational features, especially LiveND. They just solve issues I have working light and in the field.
Oct 31, 2022 at 06:19 PM
p.20 #3Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
brandojavajive wrote:
Can I please ask how to avail of the educator’s discount for the A7RIV?
Ultra-sonic dust busting
Tilt and flip screen
Better/faster menu
RAW sizes and lossless compressed
But I was hoping that Sony would do some real changes around computational photography. Yeah, we get focus bracketing (finally), but no in-camera stack, nor did we get that from multi-shot either. If their answer is Imaging Edge, it’s a lousy answer.
The short answer is the RV looks like a nice upgrade, but the cost differential is just too steep for what I’m getting as a landscape shooter for me to actually upgrade.
The one thing that keeps me drooling over the OM-1 remains the computational features, especially LiveND. They just solve issues I have working light and in the field.I'm a current M43 shooter and looking to upgrade from my G9. Lately I've been looking at used prices of A7RIV and wondering if they will drop further. I can even get a new one for $2600 as an educator. But I'm wondering if the image quality improvements will outweigh the usability of something like the OM-1, with HHHR and Live ND (plus better weather sealing), which is also a better wildlife/sports camera. I do really like the Sony ecosystem however and I think investing in it would be a good long-term decision, while I'm less sure about the future of OM.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/eduAdvantage.jsp
Can I please ask how to avail of the educator’s discount for the A7RIV?
novalaker wrote
mawz wrote
As an RIV user, Sony has solved all the quality of life complaints I had about the RIV.Ultra-sonic dust busting
Tilt and flip screen
Better/faster menu
RAW sizes and lossless compressed
But I was hoping that Sony would do some real changes around computational photography. Yeah, we get focus bracketing (finally), but no in-camera stack, nor did we get that from multi-shot either. If their answer is Imaging Edge, it’s a lousy answer.
The short answer is the RV looks like a nice upgrade, but the cost differential is just too steep for what I’m getting as a landscape shooter for me to actually upgrade.
The one thing that keeps me drooling over the OM-1 remains the computational features, especially LiveND. They just solve issues I have working light and in the field.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/eduAdvantage.jsp
Oct 31, 2022 at 07:35 PM
p.20 #4Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Will this newAF system work better with canon EF lenses? I heard focusing with the A7R4 and canon lenses is not very reliable…
Oct 31, 2022 at 07:51 PM
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p.20 #5Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Raimundo Gaby wrote:
Will this newAF system work better with canon EF lenses? I heard focusing with the A7R4 and canon lenses is not very reliable…
if it's like the other a7 bodies, it'll be limited to somewhere around 3fps or so af-c?
you need a stacked sensor body for canon glass; get 10fps and much better af.
Will this newAF system work better with canon EF lenses? I heard focusing with the A7R4 and canon lenses is not very reliable…
if it's like the other a7 bodies, it'll be limited to somewhere around 3fps or so af-c?
you need a stacked sensor body for canon glass; get 10fps and much better af.
Oct 31, 2022 at 08:28 PM
p.20 #6Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
3.2 sec, 70mm, handheld. Not bad:
Nov 01, 2022 at 12:06 AM
p.20 #7Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
brandojavajive wrote:
Can I please ask how to avail of the educator’s discount for the A7RIV?
Ultra-sonic dust busting
Tilt and flip screen
Better/faster menu
RAW sizes and lossless compressed
But I was hoping that Sony would do some real changes around computational photography. Yeah, we get focus bracketing (finally), but no in-camera stack, nor did we get that from multi-shot either. If their answer is Imaging Edge, it’s a lousy answer.
The short answer is the RV looks like a nice upgrade, but the cost differential is just too steep for what I’m getting as a landscape shooter for me to actually upgrade.
The one thing that keeps me drooling over the OM-1 remains the computational features, especially LiveND. They just solve issues I have working light and in the field.I'm a current M43 shooter and looking to upgrade from my G9. Lately I've been looking at used prices of A7RIV and wondering if they will drop further. I can even get a new one for $2600 as an educator. But I'm wondering if the image quality improvements will outweigh the usability of something like the OM-1, with HHHR and Live ND (plus better weather sealing), which is also a better wildlife/sports camera. I do really like the Sony ecosystem however and I think investing in it would be a good long-term decision, while I'm less sure about the future of OM.
You have to have a valid EDU email, I can't recall the rest of the verification process however.
Can I please ask how to avail of the educator’s discount for the A7RIV?
novalaker wrote
mawz wrote
As an RIV user, Sony has solved all the quality of life complaints I had about the RIV.Ultra-sonic dust busting
Tilt and flip screen
Better/faster menu
RAW sizes and lossless compressed
But I was hoping that Sony would do some real changes around computational photography. Yeah, we get focus bracketing (finally), but no in-camera stack, nor did we get that from multi-shot either. If their answer is Imaging Edge, it’s a lousy answer.
The short answer is the RV looks like a nice upgrade, but the cost differential is just too steep for what I’m getting as a landscape shooter for me to actually upgrade.
The one thing that keeps me drooling over the OM-1 remains the computational features, especially LiveND. They just solve issues I have working light and in the field.
You have to have a valid EDU email, I can't recall the rest of the verification process however.
Nov 01, 2022 at 01:02 AM
p.20 #8Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Im listening to Mark Galer and working at the same time producing a book but I heard some magic words shooting tethered is faster on the A7R5. This is a big one for me as I shoot tethered to a live audience and for the sheer speed I have to shoot jpegs which I hate. Hard to correct the mixed lighting with LED runway lights and a flash pop. If I could shoot Raw then I can set WB better. Dang now im really going to have to look at this dang thing. I just need to sit down and give his video the hour needed to complete . 
Nov 01, 2022 at 07:59 AM
p.20 #9Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
GMPhotography wrote:
Max sync speed listed as 1/250, so clearly doesn't have the A1 shutter. Given the price, it seem disappointing to me, but they have to save some features exclusive to the flagship.Yea there is the one turnoff for me. I want that higher sync speed
I'm going to move to newer cameras soon and the a1 sync speed and fast readout are the two main reasons why I'm leaning that direction for one body. I think the wait for a1II is going to be too long and can upgrade when it arrives if needed.
For body two, I'm leaning towards the a7RV if the AI focus works (will rent, borrow, or buy to test). Without the a7RV new AI AF, I'd probably lean towards two a1's
My current bodies: a9 and a7RIII
Where do I feel they are lacking?
Low light focusing at events.
Backlit people.
General responsiveness. I use custom settings a lot and when switching, it takes way too long to acquire the settings before shooting.
Finding people with glasses. Focus jumps to far away face without glasses too often.
Jumping to background Caucasian faces when other ethnicity face(s) close to center of frame.
Michael Gordon wrote
Clip ...plus flash sync speed if all that matches my A1 it could work for me.Max sync speed listed as 1/250, so clearly doesn't have the A1 shutter. Given the price, it seem disappointing to me, but they have to save some features exclusive to the flagship.
I'm going to move to newer cameras soon and the a1 sync speed and fast readout are the two main reasons why I'm leaning that direction for one body. I think the wait for a1II is going to be too long and can upgrade when it arrives if needed.
For body two, I'm leaning towards the a7RV if the AI focus works (will rent, borrow, or buy to test). Without the a7RV new AI AF, I'd probably lean towards two a1's
My current bodies: a9 and a7RIII
Where do I feel they are lacking?
Low light focusing at events.
Backlit people.
General responsiveness. I use custom settings a lot and when switching, it takes way too long to acquire the settings before shooting.
Finding people with glasses. Focus jumps to far away face without glasses too often.
Jumping to background Caucasian faces when other ethnicity face(s) close to center of frame.
Nov 01, 2022 at 11:05 AM
p.20 #10Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Thank you so very much. Can the Sony A1 achieve the 10 f/s with Canon glass?
Nov 01, 2022 at 12:00 PM
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p.20 #11Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
MNPNW wrote:
Max sync speed listed as 1/250, so clearly doesn't have the A1 shutter. Given the price, it seem disappointing to me, but they have to save some features exclusive to the flagship.Yea there is the one turnoff for me. I want that higher sync speedI'm going to move to newer cameras soon and the a1 sync speed and fast readout are the two main reasons why I'm leaning that direction for one body. I think the wait for a1II is going to be too long and can upgrade when it arrives if needed.
For body two, I'm leaning towards the a7RV if the AI focus works (will rent, borrow, or buy to test). Without the a7RV new AI AF, I'd probably lean towards two a1's
My current bodies: a9 and a7RIII
Where do I feel they are lacking?
Low light focusing at events.
Backlit people.
General responsiveness. I...Show more →
I would agree with you the higher sync I want but I can cheat that a little. But like the A1 and A7IV for what you sound like you're doing. Im not sold on selling the A1 and get the A7R5 but there is potential as 10 fps is fine and if I read correctly it does not have total blackout in electronic like the A1. Have to confirm that though
GMPhotography wrote
Michael Gordon wrote
Clip ...plus flash sync speed if all that matches my A1 it could work for me.Max sync speed listed as 1/250, so clearly doesn't have the A1 shutter. Given the price, it seem disappointing to me, but they have to save some features exclusive to the flagship.
For body two, I'm leaning towards the a7RV if the AI focus works (will rent, borrow, or buy to test). Without the a7RV new AI AF, I'd probably lean towards two a1's
My current bodies: a9 and a7RIII
Where do I feel they are lacking?
Low light focusing at events.
Backlit people.
General responsiveness. I...Show more →
I would agree with you the higher sync I want but I can cheat that a little. But like the A1 and A7IV for what you sound like you're doing. Im not sold on selling the A1 and get the A7R5 but there is potential as 10 fps is fine and if I read correctly it does not have total blackout in electronic like the A1. Have to confirm that though
Nov 01, 2022 at 12:08 PM
p.20 #12Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
GMPhotography wrote:
Max sync speed listed as 1/250, so clearly doesn't have the A1 shutter. Given the price, it seem disappointing to me, but they have to save some features exclusive to the flagship.Yea there is the one turnoff for me. I want that higher sync speedI'm going to move to newer cameras soon and the a1 sync speed and fast readout are the two main reasons why I'm leaning that direction for one body. I think the wait for a1II is going to be too long and can upgrade when it arrives if needed.
For body two, I'm leaning towards the a7RV if the AI focus works (will rent, borrow, or buy to test). Without the a7RV new AI AF, I'd probably lean towards two a1's
My current bodies: a9 and a7RIII
Where do I feel they are lacking?
Low light focusing at events.
Backlit people.
General responsiveness. I use custom settings a lot and when switching, it takes way too long to acquire the settings before shooting.
Finding people with glasses. Focus jumps to far away face without glasses too often.
Jumping to background Caucasian faces when other ethnicity face(s) close to center of frame.I would agree with you the higher sync I want but I can cheat that a little. But like the A1 and A7IV for what you sound like you're doing. Im not sold on selling the A1 and get the A7R5 but there is potential as 10 fps is fine and if I read correctly it does not have total blackout in electronic like the A1. Have to confirm that though
The 1/400 sync on a1 is unique. Remember the old days when leaf shutters had 1/500 and 35mm was 1/60 to 1/125th?
For bright light with strobe 2/3 stop is significant (1/250 to 1/400).
Of course, new Hasselblad is 1/4000th sync with latest lens and 1/2000 with slightly older lenses.
We are so spoiled! I demand more!!!
MNPNW wrote
GMPhotography wrote
Michael Gordon wrote
Clip ...plus flash sync speed if all that matches my A1 it could work for me.Max sync speed listed as 1/250, so clearly doesn't have the A1 shutter. Given the price, it seem disappointing to me, but they have to save some features exclusive to the flagship.
For body two, I'm leaning towards the a7RV if the AI focus works (will rent, borrow, or buy to test). Without the a7RV new AI AF, I'd probably lean towards two a1's
My current bodies: a9 and a7RIII
Where do I feel they are lacking?
Low light focusing at events.
Backlit people.
General responsiveness. I use custom settings a lot and when switching, it takes way too long to acquire the settings before shooting.
Finding people with glasses. Focus jumps to far away face without glasses too often.
Jumping to background Caucasian faces when other ethnicity face(s) close to center of frame.
The 1/400 sync on a1 is unique. Remember the old days when leaf shutters had 1/500 and 35mm was 1/60 to 1/125th?
For bright light with strobe 2/3 stop is significant (1/250 to 1/400).
Of course, new Hasselblad is 1/4000th sync with latest lens and 1/2000 with slightly older lenses.
We are so spoiled! I demand more!!!
Nov 01, 2022 at 12:59 PM
p.20 #13Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Hmm, watching that french video again, it seems to me that for non-action shooting A7RV might actually have even better AF than A1...
Nov 01, 2022 at 02:55 PM
p.20 #14Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
I was looking at an a7 iv... i may be considering this instead. Not big on megapixels but other tech seems really good.
Nov 01, 2022 at 06:29 PM
p.20 #15Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
j4nu wrote:
Hmm, watching that french video again, it seems to me that for non-action shooting A7RV might actually have even better AF than A1...
If not, Sony wasted a lot of money developing the AI processor.
Hmm, watching that french video again, it seems to me that for non-action shooting A7RV might actually have even better AF than A1...
If not, Sony wasted a lot of money developing the AI processor.
Nov 01, 2022 at 06:42 PM
p.20 #16Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Some FW updates should be done:
https://www.cined.com/frustration-over-sony-firmware-updates-in-their-alpha-series-cameras/
https://www.cined.com/frustration-over-sony-firmware-updates-in-their-alpha-series-cameras/
Nov 01, 2022 at 07:00 PM
p.20 #17Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
wzok wrote:
Some FW updates should be done:
https://www.cined.com/frustration-over-sony-firmware-updates-in-their-alpha-series-cameras/
Thanks for posting this link.
Very interesting video about FW updates. They make a strong case that the FW capabilities of some of the cheaper cameras exceed what is in the flagship A1. I did not know that although animal eye focus is a menu option for video in the A1, it does not work. That's bizarre!
They were careful to not confuse capabilities that are purely FW from capabilities that require new processors, like the AI processor in the A7R5. That will have to wait for the A1II.
Dave
Some FW updates should be done:
https://www.cined.com/frustration-over-sony-firmware-updates-in-their-alpha-series-cameras/
Thanks for posting this link.
Very interesting video about FW updates. They make a strong case that the FW capabilities of some of the cheaper cameras exceed what is in the flagship A1. I did not know that although animal eye focus is a menu option for video in the A1, it does not work. That's bizarre!
They were careful to not confuse capabilities that are purely FW from capabilities that require new processors, like the AI processor in the A7R5. That will have to wait for the A1II.
Dave
Nov 01, 2022 at 09:57 PM
p.20 #18Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Looking at the feature set that's missing it seems to be video focused. Could it be that Sony has statistics that shows that the A1 is not being used in that manner so therefore no need to focus resource on those items.
Nov 02, 2022 at 05:56 AM
p.20 #19Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
dclark wrote:
https://www.cined.com/frustration-over-sony-firmware-updates-in-their-alpha-series-cameras/Thanks for posting this link.
Very interesting video about FW updates. They make a strong case that the FW capabilities of some of the cheaper cameras exceed what is in the flagship A1. I did not know that although animal eye focus is a menu option for video in the A1, it does not work. That's bizarre!
They were careful to not confuse capabilities that are purely FW from capabilities that require new processors, like the AI processor in the A7R5. That will have to wait for the A1II.
Dave
I made a virtual robot simulator in the past, about 12 years ago, we used the simulator to test thousands of algorithms, at 100x real time speed, and then we would pick the best algorithms and test them with the physical robots. This allowed us to test new software much faster than manually.
What I mean is that Sony needs such a simulator, to simulate their cameras, and simulate the firmware update as well. I think they have one, because I'm sure every company has to use one, but I have a feeling that the simulator is being used during camera development, and not to test firmware updates.
If you can use that simulator for FW updates, then you could test all possible configurations with FW X, and apply the FW update, and then check if the camera is still working and if all settings have been preserved or correctly transitioned.
Of course, you will still perform some manual testing afterwards but at least this step can be made much shorter.
If you don't use this simulator, then you will have to do extensive manual testing only, which takes a lot of time + is more expensive + the testers will not be able to test everything, which explains why there was an issue in the A7IV update.
I'm pretty sure that the reason we're not seeing a lot of new features in FW updates is because of the testing and the risks of potentially breaking the camera (due to the lack of testing). This is why new cameras can have all the features since they will be in the initial firmware, and the testing will not involve testing all the possible previous configurations.
wzok wrote
Some FW updates should be done:https://www.cined.com/frustration-over-sony-firmware-updates-in-their-alpha-series-cameras/
Very interesting video about FW updates. They make a strong case that the FW capabilities of some of the cheaper cameras exceed what is in the flagship A1. I did not know that although animal eye focus is a menu option for video in the A1, it does not work. That's bizarre!
They were careful to not confuse capabilities that are purely FW from capabilities that require new processors, like the AI processor in the A7R5. That will have to wait for the A1II.
Dave
I made a virtual robot simulator in the past, about 12 years ago, we used the simulator to test thousands of algorithms, at 100x real time speed, and then we would pick the best algorithms and test them with the physical robots. This allowed us to test new software much faster than manually.
What I mean is that Sony needs such a simulator, to simulate their cameras, and simulate the firmware update as well. I think they have one, because I'm sure every company has to use one, but I have a feeling that the simulator is being used during camera development, and not to test firmware updates.
If you can use that simulator for FW updates, then you could test all possible configurations with FW X, and apply the FW update, and then check if the camera is still working and if all settings have been preserved or correctly transitioned.
Of course, you will still perform some manual testing afterwards but at least this step can be made much shorter.
If you don't use this simulator, then you will have to do extensive manual testing only, which takes a lot of time + is more expensive + the testers will not be able to test everything, which explains why there was an issue in the A7IV update.
I'm pretty sure that the reason we're not seeing a lot of new features in FW updates is because of the testing and the risks of potentially breaking the camera (due to the lack of testing). This is why new cameras can have all the features since they will be in the initial firmware, and the testing will not involve testing all the possible previous configurations.
Nov 02, 2022 at 06:38 AM
p.20 #20Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
If Apple can put the latest operating system and features on a six year old phone, Sony could have changed the focusing box on A7R3 to red. Perhaps Sony does not have a truly unified underlying OS for their cameras allowing features to be moved from one to the other. If that’s the case however, that’s a blundering engineering mistake. If it’s not the case, then Sony is just being lazy or greedy or both.
Nov 02, 2022 at 07:08 AM