Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
RoamingScott
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p.18 #1Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Well this is some senseless brand apology but whatever. You shouldn’t assume that Sony will update your camera when buying one at this point. They are a completely known quantity.
It’s pathetic that they continue to hold easy to implement software features to future models. Judging by their growing market share, no one actually seems to care except when they are on forums.
chiron wrote:
The bitter-speak seems to be fueled by one of the following false assumptions:
--that new cameras should not have new features that exceed what was available on prior models
--that older cameras should be revised for free by manufacturers to make them the equivalent of new cameras
--that Sony is your mother
Edited on Oct 30, 2022 at 01:03 PM · View previous versions
It’s pathetic that they continue to hold easy to implement software features to future models. Judging by their growing market share, no one actually seems to care except when they are on forums.
chiron wrote:
The bitter-speak seems to be fueled by one of the following false assumptions:
--that new cameras should not have new features that exceed what was available on prior models
--that older cameras should be revised for free by manufacturers to make them the equivalent of new cameras
--that Sony is your mother
Edited on Oct 30, 2022 at 01:03 PM · View previous versions
Oct 30, 2022 at 01:02 PM
p.18 #2Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
I’ve always liked Sony hardware and they’ve never ever prioritized firmware updates for existing products. This was my great complaint about Sony PCs back in the Vaio days. I had to replace a Sony computer to run the latest version of Windows more than once as they wouldn’t update Bios and various drivers. My otherwise amazing Sony PCM M10 audio recorder never received a firmware update. The expensive RX1 and RX1RII got minimal firmware updates despite long refresh cycles.
Sony on occasion has released firmware updates due to competitive issues, but I doubt Sony is feeling a lot of pressure to invest in firmware updates these days anywhere in their camera portfolio.
Pretty rational business decision to deliver more customer delight bundled with a few thousand dollar camera than as a free update. And if they did lots of feature adding firmware updates, we would probably complain about the value proposition of upgrading.
Sony on occasion has released firmware updates due to competitive issues, but I doubt Sony is feeling a lot of pressure to invest in firmware updates these days anywhere in their camera portfolio.
Pretty rational business decision to deliver more customer delight bundled with a few thousand dollar camera than as a free update. And if they did lots of feature adding firmware updates, we would probably complain about the value proposition of upgrading.
Oct 30, 2022 at 01:02 PM
p.18 #3Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
We can't all buy Nikon, without competition, nothing would keep them honest.... So we are taking one for the team.
RoamingScott wrote:
Well this is some senseless brand apology but whatever. You shouldn’t assume that Sony will update your camera when buying one at this point. They are a completely known quantity.
It’s pathetic that they continue to hold easy to implement software features to future models. Judging by their growing market share, no one actually seems to care except when they are on forums.
chiron wrote
The bitter-speak seems to be fueled by one of the following false assumptions:--that new cameras should not have new features that exceed what was available on prior models
--that older cameras should be revised for free by manufacturers to make them the equivalent of new cameras
--that Sony is your mother
Oct 30, 2022 at 01:22 PM
p.18 #4Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
dclark wrote:
My face does not feel slapped. 
Some of the commentary is a bit over the top.
Agree we have done this for years and no automation until the processing. Like to have it but totally not needed. After all these years we be pretty stupid not being able to do it
RoamingScott wrote
..... a slap in the face of every A1 owner. Some of the commentary is a bit over the top.
Agree we have done this for years and no automation until the processing. Like to have it but totally not needed. After all these years we be pretty stupid not being able to do it
Oct 30, 2022 at 01:26 PM
RoamingScott
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p.18 #5Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
I for one am loving how hungry the non-Sony brands are right now. Fuji is trying to dominate APS-C action and resolution. Oly is trying to dominate rugged wildlife and light tele. Nikon is…well the Z9 was nice and is one of the best all arounders (size notwithstanding) and hopefully they announce new 6 and 7 models soon, and the Z lenses are industry leading.
It’s just sad that all that work is to fight over 20% of the MILC market and none of it appears to be keeping Sony honest.
Canon of course continues to eat glue in the corner and don’t get an honorable mention.
tsdevine wrote:
We can't all buy Nikon, without competition, nothing would keep them honest.... So we are taking one for the team.
It’s pathetic that they continue to hold easy to implement software features to future models. Judging by their growing market share, no one actually seems to care except when they are on forums.
--that new cameras should not have new features that exceed what was available on prior models
--that older cameras should be revised for free by manufacturers to make them the equivalent of new cameras
--that Sony is your mother
It’s just sad that all that work is to fight over 20% of the MILC market and none of it appears to be keeping Sony honest.
Canon of course continues to eat glue in the corner and don’t get an honorable mention.
tsdevine wrote:
We can't all buy Nikon, without competition, nothing would keep them honest.... So we are taking one for the team.
RoamingScott wrote
Well this is some senseless brand apology but whatever. You shouldn’t assume that Sony will update your camera when buying one at this point. They are a completely known quantity.It’s pathetic that they continue to hold easy to implement software features to future models. Judging by their growing market share, no one actually seems to care except when they are on forums.
chiron wrote
The bitter-speak seems to be fueled by one of the following false assumptions:--that new cameras should not have new features that exceed what was available on prior models
--that older cameras should be revised for free by manufacturers to make them the equivalent of new cameras
--that Sony is your mother
Oct 30, 2022 at 01:37 PM
p.18 #6Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Well, even when Sony wasn't in the position it is now, I don't remember tons of new features coming in firmware updates. Granted I've only been with Sony since 2013, when I left Canon, who I also don't remember being generous with new features coming from firmware updates. (But back then I'm not sure there were a lot of features to add).
I'm happy it seems as though they are serious about adding new features to new cameras, even if some of those features should have come a while ago.
In any event none of this is enough for me to switch to another manufacturer.
RoamingScott wrote:
I for one am loving how hungry the non-Sony brands are right now. Fuji is trying to dominate APS-C action. Oly is trying to dominate rugged wildlife and light tele. Nikon is…well the Z9 was nice and is one of the best all arounders (size notwithstanding) and hopefully they announce new 6 and 7 models soon.
It’s just sad that all that work is to fight over 20% of the MILC market and none of it appears to be keeping Sony honest.
tsdevine wrote
We can't all buy Nikon, without competition, nothing would keep them honest.... So we are taking one for the team.RoamingScott wrote
Well this is some senseless brand apology but whatever. You shouldn’t assume that Sony will update your camera when buying one at this point. They are a completely known quantity.It’s pathetic that they continue to hold easy to implement software features to future models. Judging by their growing market share, no one actually seems to care except when they are on forums.
chiron wrote
The bitter-speak seems to be fueled by one of the following false assumptions:--that new cameras should not have new features that exceed what was available on prior models
--that older cameras should be revised for free by manufacturers to make them the equivalent of new cameras
--that Sony is your mother
Oct 30, 2022 at 01:44 PM
p.18 #7Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
chez wrote:
And it is "the one" so what is the problem here? Just because the A7R5 got a few more features than are not present in the A1 does not mean your A1 is any less of a camera today than when you bought it. Never...ever rely on Sony, or for that matter any other manufacturer, to add a feature to the product that was not there when you purchased it. Think of these added features via Firmware as a bonus to you.
When I purchase a car, I buy it for the features it has today. Next year the same car...Show more →
I didn't say that I'm unhappy with the A1, only pointing out that some people here are trying to say the A1 is something different than what Sony says it is.
However, I do think that Sony should provide feature updates for older cameras. Just from a waste perspective it makes 0 sense to make customers buy an entirely new camera for a software update. That doesn't mean they need to do it for free, I'm sure a lot of people would gladly pay $$ to add additional AF models or features like focus stacking, especially if it lets them keep the same body for longer. Overall less consumerism is most definitely a good thing. You could argue that they've previously done that for the top-of-the-line models too, so that's the expectation they themselves built (look at A9 and what all it got with updates), so people might have been willing to pay more for the A1 in the first place expecting to to get updates for several years. If Apple launches the iPhone 15 next year and then never gives it a single update people would be confused and asking for them too, considering every iPhone before it continued to get feature updates for several years
And it is "the one" so what is the problem here? Just because the A7R5 got a few more features than are not present in the A1 does not mean your A1 is any less of a camera today than when you bought it. Never...ever rely on Sony, or for that matter any other manufacturer, to add a feature to the product that was not there when you purchased it. Think of these added features via Firmware as a bonus to you.
When I purchase a car, I buy it for the features it has today. Next year the same car...Show more →
I didn't say that I'm unhappy with the A1, only pointing out that some people here are trying to say the A1 is something different than what Sony says it is.
However, I do think that Sony should provide feature updates for older cameras. Just from a waste perspective it makes 0 sense to make customers buy an entirely new camera for a software update. That doesn't mean they need to do it for free, I'm sure a lot of people would gladly pay $$ to add additional AF models or features like focus stacking, especially if it lets them keep the same body for longer. Overall less consumerism is most definitely a good thing. You could argue that they've previously done that for the top-of-the-line models too, so that's the expectation they themselves built (look at A9 and what all it got with updates), so people might have been willing to pay more for the A1 in the first place expecting to to get updates for several years. If Apple launches the iPhone 15 next year and then never gives it a single update people would be confused and asking for them too, considering every iPhone before it continued to get feature updates for several years
Oct 30, 2022 at 02:43 PM
p.18 #8Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
I don't usually follow new camera body releases but followed this one.....got my A1 over a year ago and have really enjoyed it, but honestly it might be overkill for what I shoot.....no sports, no BIF. It's great for lots of what I shoot......but I admit to eyeballing the Fuji GFX100s from time to time. I have looked on lensrental to see about renting the Fuji but they never seem to have one available. The thought of selling all my Sony gear is a little daunting though.....
The focus stacking and touch shutter are nice upgrades on the A7RV......I doubt we will see those in any A1 firmware update, seems like it would cut into demand for the A7RV, though Sony is probably not targeting current A1 users with the A7RV.
Definitely First World Problems
The focus stacking and touch shutter are nice upgrades on the A7RV......I doubt we will see those in any A1 firmware update, seems like it would cut into demand for the A7RV, though Sony is probably not targeting current A1 users with the A7RV.
Definitely First World Problems
Oct 30, 2022 at 02:57 PM
p.18 #9Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Jochenb wrote:
True words, the A1 is amazing... yet Sony decided to not offer (simple firmware) functionality like focus bracketing and bulb timer on this flagship camera. If you want those much requested features you simply have to buy an A7RV (or wait for an A1II?).
I hate that about Sony. They hardly ever add functionality with firmware updates. Some of the other brands are more generous to their users. I would be very surprised if they'd still bring it to the A1.
I do agree with you , we know the A1 has headroom to spare… Sony could easily add the features you mention. I’m not pleased with Sonys approach to firmware support either - quite frankly they suck at it (pardon the language buts it’s true). That said, A1 is still their best camera. As great as it is.. imagine if it were improved even further via a proper firmware ? Personally, I don’t care how good the A1 Mkii might be … I won’t be upgrading. I’m skipping one generation, and will be watching Sonys firmware support model vs. the competition. As much as I love my A1, if Sony doesn’t drastically improve firmware support, it might be my last Sony. I don’t see the point in giving Sony another $6500 for features they could have included in its existing flagship …at this price point SONY YOU HAVE NO EXCUSES
Maxxus46 wrote
the A1 is still the better camera. The stacked sensor with blackout free viewfinder, raw speed and perfect balance of resolution ( 50mpx is considered a sweet spot for many) is hard to beat. Even with AI focus the A7RV cannot keep up… the A1 performs 120 AE/AF calculations per second, at 30 frames @ 50mp each frame . That is impressive no matter how you slice it. The A1 also has excellent dynamic range and color science. So regarding Mark Galers summary, I’d say the A1 handles all mentioned categories on both sides equally well. For sure, if you narrow subjects down further to wildlife, BIF, action sports there is no comparison at all… A1 is still going to rule the roost here. It’s incredible speed makes the A1 an absolute joy to shoot with. Really comes down to what is affordable to you and the majority of subjects you shoot regularly… that should help you decide. Yes the A1 isn’t cheap, but once you shoot with one it’s hard to go back!I hate that about Sony. They hardly ever add functionality with firmware updates. Some of the other brands are more generous to their users. I would be very surprised if they'd still bring it to the A1.
I do agree with you , we know the A1 has headroom to spare… Sony could easily add the features you mention. I’m not pleased with Sonys approach to firmware support either - quite frankly they suck at it (pardon the language buts it’s true). That said, A1 is still their best camera. As great as it is.. imagine if it were improved even further via a proper firmware ? Personally, I don’t care how good the A1 Mkii might be … I won’t be upgrading. I’m skipping one generation, and will be watching Sonys firmware support model vs. the competition. As much as I love my A1, if Sony doesn’t drastically improve firmware support, it might be my last Sony. I don’t see the point in giving Sony another $6500 for features they could have included in its existing flagship …at this price point SONY YOU HAVE NO EXCUSES
Oct 30, 2022 at 03:42 PM
p.18 #10Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Maxxus46 wrote:
True words, the A1 is amazing... yet Sony decided to not offer (simple firmware) functionality like focus bracketing and bulb timer on this flagship camera. If you want those much requested features you simply have to buy an A7RV (or wait for an A1II?).
I hate that about Sony. They hardly ever add functionality with firmware updates. Some of the other brands are more generous to their users. I would be very surprised if they'd still bring it to the A1.I do agree with you , we know the A1 has headroom to spare… Sony could easily add the features you mention. I’m not pleased with Sonys approach to firmware support either - quite frankly they suck at it (pardon the language buts it’s true). That said, A1 is still their best camera. As great as it is.. imagine if it were improved even further via a proper firmware ? Personally, I don’t care how good the A1 Mkii might be … I won’t be upgrading. I’m skipping one generation, and will be watching Sonys firmware support model vs. the...Show more →
So you’d flip to Nikon and complain about how Humungous the Z9 is or you’d flip to Canon and wait with the crowd for the R1?
Hint…every system has it’s warts. Are you really being held back not having those couple features that were added to the A7R5?
Jochenb wrote
Maxxus46 wrote
the A1 is still the better camera. The stacked sensor with blackout free viewfinder, raw speed and perfect balance of resolution ( 50mpx is considered a sweet spot for many) is hard to beat. Even with AI focus the A7RV cannot keep up… the A1 performs 120 AE/AF calculations per second, at 30 frames @ 50mp each frame . That is impressive no matter how you slice it. The A1 also has excellent dynamic range and color science. So regarding Mark Galers summary, I’d say the A1 handles all mentioned categories on both sides equally well. For sure, if you narrow subjects down further to wildlife, BIF, action sports there is no comparison at all… A1 is still going to rule the roost here. It’s incredible speed makes the A1 an absolute joy to shoot with. Really comes down to what is affordable to you and the majority of subjects you shoot regularly… that should help you decide. Yes the A1 isn’t cheap, but once you shoot with one it’s hard to go back!I hate that about Sony. They hardly ever add functionality with firmware updates. Some of the other brands are more generous to their users. I would be very surprised if they'd still bring it to the A1.
So you’d flip to Nikon and complain about how Humungous the Z9 is or you’d flip to Canon and wait with the crowd for the R1?
Hint…every system has it’s warts. Are you really being held back not having those couple features that were added to the A7R5?
Oct 30, 2022 at 03:54 PM
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p.18 #11Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Sony can be a bit funny with firmware as we all know. The A7R5 checks most of the boxes of the things I'd been wanting but NONE of them, NONE of them, will likely have ANY effect on ultimate image quality in the end. They are essentially all operational. They will make it easier, not necessarily better.
Focus bracketing, faster AF, lossless compressed RAW, better IBIS, better pixel shift, and I may have missed something, are all nice to have and I am among those yowling about these things but it's at least partly because Nikon, Canon, and Fuji all have most of them.
I plan to wait and see how many of these actually work as advertised. 60MP is plenty, though I recall saying 36MP was plenty when I had a Nikon D800e. Anyone who cannot make pretty impressive images with any of the A7 cameras needs more artistic ability, maybe a class or workshop, not more tech. All my cameras, back to my Beseler Topcon SLR (?) were more capable than I am.
Focus bracketing, faster AF, lossless compressed RAW, better IBIS, better pixel shift, and I may have missed something, are all nice to have and I am among those yowling about these things but it's at least partly because Nikon, Canon, and Fuji all have most of them.
I plan to wait and see how many of these actually work as advertised. 60MP is plenty, though I recall saying 36MP was plenty when I had a Nikon D800e. Anyone who cannot make pretty impressive images with any of the A7 cameras needs more artistic ability, maybe a class or workshop, not more tech. All my cameras, back to my Beseler Topcon SLR (?) were more capable than I am.
Oct 30, 2022 at 06:03 PM
p.18 #12Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
doc4x5 wrote:
Sony can be a bit funny with firmware as we all know. The A7R5 checks most of the boxes of the things I'd been wanting but NONE of them, NONE of them, will likely have ANY effect on ultimate image quality in the end. They are essentially all operational. They will make it easier, not necessarily better.
Focus bracketing, faster AF, lossless compressed RAW, better IBIS, better pixel shift, and I may have missed something, are all nice to have and I am among those yowling about these things but it's at least partly because Nikon, Canon, and Fuji all...Show more →
Exactly. This should be pinned to the top.
Oct 30, 2022 at 06:19 PM
p.18 #13Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Has anyone seen any in depth articles/videos/examples of the focus bracketing, Sony was noticeably lowkey in all their presentations with regard to the feature, barely giving it a mention...?
Oct 31, 2022 at 01:31 AM
p.18 #14Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Taki_T wrote:
Has anyone seen any in depth articles/videos/examples of the focus bracketing, Sony was noticeably lowkey in all their presentations with regard to the feature, barely giving it a mention...?
Mark Galer includes a short video in his review.
Has anyone seen any in depth articles/videos/examples of the focus bracketing, Sony was noticeably lowkey in all their presentations with regard to the feature, barely giving it a mention...?
Mark Galer includes a short video in his review.
Oct 31, 2022 at 02:59 AM
p.18 #15Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Has anyone reviewer done direct IBIS comparison to a previous model (A1 or A7RIV preferably) ?
Oct 31, 2022 at 03:08 AM
p.18 #16Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Albert Dros said he plans to do that comparison
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1779955/0#16077040
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1779955/0#16077040
Oct 31, 2022 at 03:24 AM
p.18 #17Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
Maxxus46 wrote:
I do agree with you , we know the A1 has headroom to spare… Sony could easily add the features you mention. I’m not pleased with Sonys approach to firmware support either - quite frankly they suck at it (pardon the language buts it’s true). That said, A1 is still their best camera. As great as it is.. imagine if it were improved even further via a proper firmware ? Personally, I don’t care how good the A1 Mkii might be … I won’t be upgrading. I’m skipping one generation, and will be watching Sonys firmware support model vs. the...Show more →
How long should Sony keep delaying new products to keep developing updates to the A1 for you to be satisfied?
If the A1 lacks features you need then perhaps you shouldn't have bought one, better that then getting annoyed whenever a new camera comes out.
I do agree with you , we know the A1 has headroom to spare… Sony could easily add the features you mention. I’m not pleased with Sonys approach to firmware support either - quite frankly they suck at it (pardon the language buts it’s true). That said, A1 is still their best camera. As great as it is.. imagine if it were improved even further via a proper firmware ? Personally, I don’t care how good the A1 Mkii might be … I won’t be upgrading. I’m skipping one generation, and will be watching Sonys firmware support model vs. the...Show more →
How long should Sony keep delaying new products to keep developing updates to the A1 for you to be satisfied?
If the A1 lacks features you need then perhaps you shouldn't have bought one, better that then getting annoyed whenever a new camera comes out.
Oct 31, 2022 at 04:07 AM
p.18 #18Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
j4nu wrote:
Has anyone reviewer done direct IBIS comparison to a previous model (A1 or A7RIV preferably) ?
https://youtu.be/paqZxtrNObA?t=100
Go to 1:40
% of shots that are sharp, A1 vs A7R5:
1 sec: 0% 5%
1/2": 0% 13%
1/4": 0% 31%
1/8": 10% 73%
1/15": 19% 92%
Based on the last 2 numbers, the A7R5 IBIS is between 4.8x and 7.3x better, so between 2.2 and 2.86 steps better.
According to the CIPA test, it's 8 steps vs 5.5 steps (2.5 steps better), the measurements seem to validate it.
Has anyone reviewer done direct IBIS comparison to a previous model (A1 or A7RIV preferably) ?
https://youtu.be/paqZxtrNObA?t=100
Go to 1:40
% of shots that are sharp, A1 vs A7R5:
1 sec: 0% 5%
1/2": 0% 13%
1/4": 0% 31%
1/8": 10% 73%
1/15": 19% 92%
Based on the last 2 numbers, the A7R5 IBIS is between 4.8x and 7.3x better, so between 2.2 and 2.86 steps better.
According to the CIPA test, it's 8 steps vs 5.5 steps (2.5 steps better), the measurements seem to validate it.
Oct 31, 2022 at 04:22 AM
p.18 #19Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
octo wrote:
https://youtu.be/paqZxtrNObA?t=100
Go to 1:40
% of shots that are sharp, A1 vs A7R5:
1 sec: 0% 5%
1/2": 0% 13%
1/4": 0% 31%
1/8": 10% 73%
1/15": 19% 92%
Based on the last 2 numbers, the A7R5 IBIS is between 4.8x and 7.3x better, so between 2.2 and 2.86 steps better.
According to the CIPA test, it's 8 steps vs 5.5 steps (2.5 steps better), the measurements seem to validate it.
Thanks, that's actually impressive! I wonder if it's IBIS alone in this case or IBIS + OSS (in lens) that makes the difference...
j4nu wrote
Has anyone reviewer done direct IBIS comparison to a previous model (A1 or A7RIV preferably) ?Go to 1:40
% of shots that are sharp, A1 vs A7R5:
1 sec: 0% 5%
1/2": 0% 13%
1/4": 0% 31%
1/8": 10% 73%
1/15": 19% 92%
Based on the last 2 numbers, the A7R5 IBIS is between 4.8x and 7.3x better, so between 2.2 and 2.86 steps better.
According to the CIPA test, it's 8 steps vs 5.5 steps (2.5 steps better), the measurements seem to validate it.
Thanks, that's actually impressive! I wonder if it's IBIS alone in this case or IBIS + OSS (in lens) that makes the difference...
Oct 31, 2022 at 04:28 AM
p.18 #20Official: Sony A7R V announced (pre-orders now available)
You're welcome. Very good point. The problem is that the lens used in this test had OSS too, 70-200GM II. So it would be good to see tests with lenses that don't have OSS. At least the CIPA rating was obtained using the 50mm f1.2 GM which doesn't have OSS.
Oct 31, 2022 at 04:42 AM