p.33 #1 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
bs kite wrote:
Key phrase: "...... not directly compete with them."
The Nikon Authorized Dealer realizes a profit from the Z9 that Nikon NPS sends to it. Is that right?
Thank you Steve
In previous reply I just mentioned Nikon USA sells everything online and that won't count directly compete with them? How come directly handle NPS pre order online and deliver directly to member should be called to compete with dealer?
In fact the complain is that since Nikon directly handle whose and which order is from the NPS member, Nikon should directly ship to the member but not to the dealers that also handle much more of the non NPS orders due to the priority. No one is to against NPS member getting z9 first. But non NPS member don't want this become a black box, ie no transparency, since currently NIKON ship all z9 to dealers, with the priority to NPS member you don't know your real preorder position now.
p.33 #2 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
gdsf2 wrote:
What I don’t get about all this NPS whining is Nikon USA has said all NPS orders will be delivered by mid- January. Which means in 2 weeks NPS will be a non-issue and all Z9s will start going to non-NPS customers. Is a 3 week wait worth this level of animosity? I would think this would be welcome news for everyone, especially given the current supply chain shortages.
And in regards to Nikon NPS distributing via the Nikon USA store, or through dealers, who cares. Given Nikon is prioritizing NPS orders made through 12/19 (which is how they have always prioritized NPS orders) their choice of distribution channel has zero impact on non-NPS members. But, it does have an impact on the dealers, and that is why Nikon does distribution via dealers. It would be horrible for Nikon to say to its dealers “hey, we are going to offer priority delivery to your customers but only if they buy directly from us, so sorry for your lost sales.”
How Nikon handles NPS members is correct in my opinion. You can’t buy your way in (unlike Canon). You have to be a paid professional photographer. I didn’t have a problem with it before I was an NPS member and I don’t have a problem with it now. There are a relatively small number of NPS members (because you can’t buy in) and therefore this is much ado about nothing.
It is all the false rumors about 700,000 preorders and no shipments till October 2022 (like in the above video) that have caused all the angst. If folks would just avoid all the fake news and put the Z9 in perspective in regards to the real issues we all face, the wait would be much easier to endure.
Instead of 700,000 units that was proven to be Japanese yen of the z9 unit price, I believe somewhere that said 40,000 units preorder to be more accurate. Also another language or culture misunderstanding about the Oct 2022 is that the retail store in Japan were trying to tell all inquiry about z9 in mid December that if you order one now (Dec), you have to wait until Oct 2022 to get it delivered. This is very true if you learnt from Ricci who told you the z9 production capacity is 3500 units a month.
That said, if you order in mid Dec 2021, you can only get it in Oct 2022 but if you are NPS member you can get it by mid January. If this is not a "short cut", then what to call it? In Vahagraphy's video what his claim was simple, "my money is the same money NIKON will get from selling a z9". If NIKON can't deliver to all (we know it can't), it should handle this in a better way. Like I reply the other day, Nikon should handle directly (only delivery part providing selling profit remain in dealer) just like an airline's special window to handle their silver member. We all know silver member has priority, isn't it better that by doing so a silver member doesn't need to cut in front of a waiting line to enjoy the privilege?
p.33 #3 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
I think it is nothing new. Plenty of people were willing to pay significantly more than retail price for Sony Playstation 5.
Look at Rolex Torquiose edition, whatever model that was. I don't really care much for watches and paid a few hundred dollars for my current smart watch but some friends were talking about these turquoise edition rolex that people are now paying way more than list price to get one ever since Patek Philippe came out with Tiffany blue edition something or rather.
Some people are struggling through Covid the last couple of years but many businesses actually grew significantly and to some people, $5000 or 10,000 does not make much of a difference to them, I suppose.
p.33 #4 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Easyshot wrote:
Instead of 700,000 units that was proven to be Japanese yen of the z9 unit price, I believe somewhere that said 40,000 units preorder to be more accurate. Also another language or culture misunderstanding about the Oct 2022 is that the retail store in Japan were trying to tell all inquiry about z9 in mid December that if you order one now (Dec), you have to wait until Oct 2022 to get it delivered. This is very true if you learnt from Ricci who told you the z9 production capacity is 3500 units a month.
That said, if you order in mid Dec 2021, you can only get it in Oct 2022 but if you are NPS member you can get it by mid January. If this is not a "short cut", then what to call it? In Vahagraphy's video what his claim was simple, "my money is the same money NIKON will get from selling a z9". If NIKON can't deliver to all (we know it can't), it should handle this in a better way. Like I reply the other day, Nikon should handle directly (only delivery part providing selling profit remain in dealer) just like an airline's special window to handle their silver member. We all know silver member has priority, isn't it better that by doing so a silver member doesn't need to cut in front of a waiting line to enjoy the privilege?
There is no line at a photo dealer. That is where your airline analogy breaks down. The dealer has a list of non-NPS pre-orders. The dealer will fulfill those non-NPS preorders as they get open stock cameras. The cameras that are reserved for NPS members come with the members name on it and are not part of the open stock allotment. In addition, the allocation of NPS cameras and open stock cameras received by the dealers are not interchangeable by the dealer.
When an NPS camera arrives at the dealer, the dealer sells it to the NPS member. The other folks waiting for Z9s do not see, nor should they have any reason to know about, the transaction.
Are NPS members getting priority, absolutely. If you want to say that is not fair, you are welcome to that opinion.
But, would anything change just by Nikon distributing NPS cameras directly to NPS members instead of via their dealers. Nope, not at all. It would not speed up non-NPS delivery, it would not hide the NPS priority system nor make it more transparent. Also, it would not help you know when you are going to get your camera (your dealer already has a pretty good idea which of their pre-orders are NPS). It would change nothing except piss of dealers as their profit would take a hit.
p.33 #5 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
gdsf2 wrote:
There is no line at a photo dealer. That is where your airline analogy breaks down. The dealer has a list of non-NPS pre-orders. The dealer will fulfill those non-NPS preorders as they get open stock cameras. The cameras that are reserved for NPS members come with the members name on it and are not part of the open stock allotment. In addition, the allocation of NPS cameras and open stock cameras received by the dealers are not interchangeable by the dealer.
When an NPS camera arrives at the dealer, the dealer sells it to the NPS member. The other folks waiting for Z9s do not see, nor should they have any reason to know about, the transaction.
Are NPS members getting priority, absolutely. If you want to say that is not fair, you are welcome to that opinion.
But, would anything change just by Nikon distributing NPS cameras directly to NPS members instead of via their dealers. Nope, not at all. It would not speed up non-NPS delivery, it would not hide the NPS priority system nor make it more transparent. Also, it would not help you know when you are going to get your camera (your dealer already has a pretty good idea which of their pre-orders are NPS). It would change nothing except piss of dealers as their profit would take a hit.
As long as NIKON ships NPS orders to dealers, you can't convince all non NPS customers waiting in line to believe that their position are not manipulated. How do you know if your dealer told you by saying sorry we can't fill your oder yet because there are 3 NPS orders in front of you while there were actually only 2? Your explanation works only with face value of dealer's honesty. You can check eBay has sold 3 z9 bodies at $12600, $12,000, and $12400 with last two just sold today. Whoever get their body faster they potentially win quite a big financial gain.
Of course I don't think this is fair. But because you said NPS has long been with priority, I have no intention to fight on this with you anyway, also because I don't do photography for living.
I am more concerned about my 800mm F6.3 PF lens preorder. I placed my order to a dealer and I am pretty sure I owned the 1st position as the guy who handled my preorder told me so. Recently I called the dealer again to ask about z9 and also the 800PF lens position, this sales person refused to say anything about the position I have any more. It is the NPS priority that bother on one thing seemed to be delightful. I don't know how many positions to be pushed away from the top that I own supposely without the NPS.
p.33 #6 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
I don't shoot professionally either, it is just a hobby . At first Nikon said that nps was gonna have priority for the first day of pre order. When someone post that they would have priority up to the 19th of December I got irritated quite a lot. My camera store said he didn't knew at first that nps had priority . I was the first on the list(pre-order march) he told me the first shipment he got 5 cameras for nps. I ask him where I was on the list and now 22 nps were in front of me plus the 5 that already got there Camera. I place pre order at different store but a bit late now. I am first no nps at one store and second at another store no nps there either and I place my name at 2 other stores also. Hopefully I will get mine soon so that I can stop whining lol. I've help folks a lot since I've already read the z9 manual and I saw every video on it or article lol. I hope I won't have to wait much longer, I am not too patient! 😆
Easyshot wrote:
I thank you for your reply.
As long as NIKON ships NPS orders to dealers, you can't convince all non NPS customers waiting in line to believe that their position are not manipulated. How do you know if your dealer told you by saying sorry we can't fill your oder yet because there are 3 NPS orders in front of you while there were actually only 2? Your explanation works only with face value of dealer's honesty. You can check eBay has sold 3 z9 bodies at $12600, $12,000, and $12400 with last two just sold today. Whoever get their body faster they potentially win quite a big financial gain.
Of course I don't think this is fair. But because you said NPS has long been with priority, I have no intention to fight on this with you anyway, also because I don't do photography for living.
I am more concerned about my 800mm F6.3 PF lens preorder. I placed my order to a dealer and I am pretty sure I owned the 1st position as the guy who handled my preorder told me so. Recently I called the dealer again to ask about z9 and also the 800PF lens position, this sales person refused to say anything about the position I have any more. It is the NPS priority that bother on one thing seemed to be delightful. I don't know how many positions to be pushed away from the top that I own supposely without the NPS.
p.33 #7 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
So one person places preorders at four stores? Presumably he or she has no intention of being good for all four Z9 units? So how is the manufacturer supposed to give predictions about delivery when 75% of the preorders could amount to hot air: customers trying to get past others and not actually indicative of willingness to purchase the cameras ordered?
p.33 #8 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
ilkka_nissila wrote:
So one person places preorders at four stores? Presumably he or she has no intention of being good for all four Z9 units? So how is the manufacturer supposed to give predictions about delivery when 75% of the preorders could amount to hot air: customers trying to get past others and not actually indicative of willingness to purchase the cameras ordered?
Don't worry I have friends who will buy the one that I don't need. Nikon created this problem with the nps priority thing and some other country don't have nps priority. It is quite screwy. Even some non nps in the USA who bought from b&h got their Camera before nps member.
p.33 #9 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Easyshot wrote:
I thank you for your reply.
As long as NIKON ships NPS orders to dealers, you can't convince all non NPS customers waiting in line to believe that their position are not manipulated. How do you know if your dealer told you by saying sorry we can't fill your oder yet because there are 3 NPS orders in front of you while there were actually only 2? Your explanation works only with face value of dealer's honesty. You can check eBay has sold 3 z9 bodies at $12600, $12,000, and $12400 with last two just sold today. Whoever get their body faster they potentially win quite a big financial gain.
Of course I don't think this is fair. But because you said NPS has long been with priority, I have no intention to fight on this with you anyway, also because I don't do photography for living.
I am more concerned about my 800mm F6.3 PF lens preorder. I placed my order to a dealer and I am pretty sure I owned the 1st position as the guy who handled my preorder told me so. Recently I called the dealer again to ask about z9 and also the 800PF lens position, this sales person refused to say anything about the position I have any more. It is the NPS priority that bother on one thing seemed to be delightful. I don't know how many positions to be pushed away from the top that I own supposely without the NPS.
p.33 #10 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
rick2906 wrote:
I don't shoot professionally either, it is just a hobby . At first Nikon said that nps was gonna have priority for the first day of pre order. When someone post that they would have priority up to the 19th of December I got irritated quite a lot. My camera store said he didn't knew at first that nps had priority . I was the first on the list(pre-order march) he told me the first shipment he got 5 cameras for nps. I ask him where I was on the list and now 22 nps were in front of me plus the 5 that already got there Camera. I place pre order at different store but a bit late now. I am first no nps at one store and second at another store no nps there either and I place my name at 2 other stores also. Hopefully I will get mine soon so that I can stop whining lol. I've help folks a lot since I've already read the z9 manual and I saw every video on it or article lol. I hope I won't have to wait much longer, I am not too patient! 😆
p.33 #11 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Easyshot wrote:
In previous reply I just mentioned Nikon USA sells everything online and that won't count directly compete with them? How come directly handle NPS pre order online and deliver directly to member should be called to compete with dealer?
In fact the complain is that since Nikon directly handle whose and which order is from the NPS member, Nikon should directly ship to the member but not to the dealers that also handle much more of the non NPS orders due to the priority. No one is to against NPS member getting z9 first. But non NPS member don't want this become a black box, ie no transparency, since currently NIKON ship all z9 to dealers, with the priority to NPS member you don't know your real preorder position now.
p.33 #13 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
JoshmkII wrote:
Sounds like your dealer is the issue if even they don't understand NPS orders and as for the claim you pre-ordered the 800mm Z, well...
Everyone knows how NPS priority works, you keep either intentionally misrepresenting how it is, or just have not yet understood it.
I cannot for the life of me understand why you keep beating a very dead horse when you KNOW the correct information.
I think we have a language barrier issue here. But I have tried to be as clear as possible. Can’t tell if I am being misunderstood, misbelieved, or ignored. Either way, I tried.
Mid-Jan, as expected ... who will score in round 2?
Nikon USA has already announced the mid-January shipment will complete the NPS orders received up to 12/19. And, just as a point of reference, I placed my NPS order on the day after the announcement and mine is coming mid- January. That means so far, only NPS orders placed on the first day (or maybe early on the second day) have been shipped so far.
Unfortunately, I would suspect there will not be many open stock cameras in the mid-January shipment. I say this because Nikon must have depleted their inventory in December. So, by mid January they will have about 3,500 cameras to ship, worldwide.
Now, the next shipment, in early February or mid-March will be almost all open stock. Same is true for all future shipments (3,500 per month).
The number of preorders has been reported to be 40,000 (I have no idea if this is even close to correct). Assuming 20% are orders that will fall through (I made this number up), and assuming Nikon started production in September, Nikon will clear the back orders by mid June or July.
This is full of assumptions but I made them clear.
p.33 #17 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
gdsf2 wrote:
That means so far, only NPS orders placed on the first day (or maybe early on the second day) have been shipped so far.
.
I've seen posts from folks who received the NPS ordered z9 from the 1st round. Their order dates range from day 1 through early November. It "seems" that filled early November orders were placed via local shops, while B&H type shops only got orders placed late October. This thought of course is subject to being very wrong 😂
p.33 #18 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
JoshmkII wrote:
I've seen posts from folks who received the z9 from the 1st round. Their order dates range from day 1 through early November. It "seems" that filled early November orders were placed via local shops, while B&H type shops only got orders placed late October. This thought of course is subject to being very wrong 😂
Yes, I have heard some Nikon Professional shops received one open stock camera.
p.33 #19 · Z9: Countdown to air shipment and release.......
Nikon has a very hot product being introduced in difficult times.
Nikon has an NPS program that includes benefits. This program has requirements for product ownership and/or fees that people have paid to receive various benefits. That includes priority access to high demand products. This is a well known benefit of the program. Nothing new or special about the Z9 release in this regard.
Nikon has a network of dealers. The majority of these dealers a smaller local photography shops. They provide personalized and specialized services as their unique point of difference from the big box and mail order companies. Nikon recognizes and respects the value that these stores provide to Nikon's end users, the professional and recreational photographers. Nikon is supporting these stores by using them in the NPS channel. This is not without cost and effort to both Nikon these stores. One of my local store owners told me that Nikon is allowing only a reduced margin on the Z9. He mentioned 10%, but I have no knowledge how this fits in, or if it is a valid number. The important thing is that the stores are participating in Nikon's effort to bring exceptionally competitive value to their customers.
If you are a customer of the store, or of Nikon you are benefiting from this value. If you don't want to be just a number, establish a relationship with a small business camera store. This relationship will benefit you when you need/want some service or product. Establish a relationship with Nikon through NPS. Establish a relationship with your store by being a good customer. Otherwise you will be just a number ordering from multiple stores in hopes of hitting the jackpot.
From what I am seeing, Nikon is doing an exceptional job with the Z9 release in difficult times. In a general case (not buyer or store specific), they are being open about to who (by category), and when they are shipping cameras. As I think we can all recognize forecasting and production are not easy to do in today's unusual circumstances. There are lots of complaints based on unrealistic expectations, and misinformation. Step back and have a look at how well it is actually going in the context of the World situation rather than through the lenses of personal wants and impatience.
I will admit that it is easier for me to remain dispassionate in this discussion because I am not interested in a camera with the Z9 form factor.
