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Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5

  
 
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #1 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


bjornthun wrote:
Olympus OM Zuiko f/2.8 wides are typically 170-180 grams.

I used to own Olympus OM film SLRs, so I hope Sony and Sigma can replicate much of that. I’d like Sony G/Sigma I-series 85/2.8, 135/3.5, 200/4, 300/4.5 as well.


Yes, I very much agree and that is part of my puzzlement with these lenses. If they would have been an 85 or 90 f/2.8, a 135 f/2.8 or f/3.5, and a 180 f/3.5 or f/4, they would have added something quite new to the system. I would love to see small versions of some of these longer lenses and especially high quality small versions, but alas Sony has given us more lenses in the crowded 24-50mm range.



Mar 20, 2021 at 09:57 AM
chiron
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p.8 #2 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


Steve Spencer wrote:
Yes, I very much agree and that is part of my puzzlement with these lenses. If they would have been an 85 or 90 f/2.8, a 135 f/2.8 or f/3.5, and a 180 f/3.5 or f/4, they would have added something quite new to the system. I would love to see small versions of some of these longer lenses and especially high quality small versions, but alas Sony has given us more lenses in the crowded 24-50mm range.


I do think that what they are going for is small and high quality--otherwise they would not be G-designated and with reduced apertures.

I think one of the complaints that Sony has been hearing is that their lenses/bodies have gotten too large and have gotten Sony away from the compactness and ease of handling that was one of the initial attractions for the Sony NEX cameras, then the Sony APS-C cameras, and then the first A7 bodies.

I don't think Sony wants to or that they should give up or slow down on the big, very high quality lenses, like the 50/1.2 GM or the 12-24/2.8 or the 600/4. They want to be the best pro camera system.

But I do think they want to reclaim compactness and I think that is what these lenses are after. The A7C has been a success for them, probably to be followed by other versions, and I think it illustrates a design strategy for them: You can get best in class image quality (and the A7C has the best image quality sensor that Sony sells, per Bill Claff's measurements) in a compact form IF you are willing to compromise on some other characteristics. Like the EVF in the A7C or like max aperture in this new series of G lenses.

These lens, at least as I am imagining them, are very appealing to me. Yes, I would still want the big, max ap lenses like the 50/1.2. But I would love to have a set of smaller, very high quality primes and zooms (like the 28-60 -- see Fred's review) that are compact and easy to carry, easy to travel with, easy to handle, and that don't make candid subjects feel like you are aiming a bazooka at them.

I hope that is what these lenses will be. (And that is why I withdrew my A7C from the buy-sell board when these new G lenses were announced).



Edited on Mar 20, 2021 at 11:41 AM · View previous versions



Mar 20, 2021 at 10:21 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #3 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


chiron wrote:
I do think that what they are going for is small and high quality--otherwise they would not be G-designated and with reduced apertures.

I think one of the complaints that Sony has been hearing is that their lenses/bodies have gotten too large and have gotten Sony away from the compactness and ease of handling that was one of the initial attractions for the Sony NEX cameras, then the Sony APS-C cameras, and then the first A7 bodies.

I don't think Sony wants to or that they should give up or slow down on the big, very high quality lenses, like the 50/1.2
...Show more

I think you missed my point. I am not saying Sony is not going for small high IQ lenses with these new announced lenses, and I am certainly not saying they are turning away from bigger Pro lenses (there recent introductions make it clear that isn't happening), what I am saying is that if they want to support the A7c or compactness for the Sony E mount system, what is really needed is some longer lenses not more shorter focal length lenses. If you want to shoot the A7c for a compact system you have tons of choice lenses between 24 and 50mm, but almost no choices longer than 85mm. IMO, if they want to support the ability to have a small system, then they needed to offer some longer focal length, smaller lenses that were high quality and that adding these lenses to the crowded 24-50mm space does little to advance shooting a compact system.



Mar 20, 2021 at 10:28 AM
chiron
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p.8 #4 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think you missed my point. I am not saying Sony is not going for small high IQ lenses with these new announced lenses, and I am certainly not saying they are turning away from bigger Pro lenses (there recent introductions make it clear that isn't happening), what I am saying is that if they want to support the A7c or compactness for the Sony E mount system, what is really needed is some longer lenses not more shorter focal length lenses. If you want to shoot the A7c for a compact system you have tons of choice lenses
...Show more

I think I am addressing and disagreeing with your point. I think Sony is thinking in terms of Leica-typical focal length lenses for the A7C.



Mar 20, 2021 at 10:30 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #5 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


chiron wrote:
I think I am addressing and disagreeing with your point. I think Sony is thinking in terms of Leica-typical focal length lenses for the A7C.


Well then that would only rule out the 180 I was talking about. 90mm and 135mm are certainly Leica-type focal lengths.



Mar 20, 2021 at 11:35 AM
chiron
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p.8 #6 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


Steve Spencer wrote:
Well then that would only rule out the 180 I was talking about. 90mm and 135mm are certainly Leica-type focal lengths.


It's a question of emphasis and of clarifying or establishing the territory. If new high quality G lenses are establishing a system for the A7C, one would start in the heart of what the family, traveling and street-oriented photographer would want. Leica's first lens was not a 90mm, nor is it the heart of the system. The smaller lenses that are now available for the A&C ae fine but still a bit large and not necessarily very special.

Think of the success of Samyang tiny series but with G quality.



Mar 20, 2021 at 11:56 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #7 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


chiron wrote:
It's a question of emphasis and of clarifying or establishing the territory. If new high quality G lenses are establishing a system for the A7C, one would start in the heart of what the family, traveling and street-oriented photographer would want. Leica's first lens was not a 90mm, nor is it the heart of the system. The smaller lenses that are now available for the A&C ae fine but still a bit large and not necessarily very special.

Think of the success of Samyang tiny series but with G quality.


I think this shows some ignorance of Leica history. The first three Leica lenses introduced were a 35mm, a 50mm, and a 135mm, and the Leica 90 Thambar was made for Leica in 1935 for the very first Leica screw mount system. Leica has for a long time embraced the 90mm and 135mm focal lengths. These are not an odd focal lengths by any stretch of the imagination for Leica and have a long and distinguished history on the Leica platform. The 90mm and 135mm focal lengths in Leica history actually preceded the 24mm focal length and the 40mm focal length by quite a lot.



Mar 20, 2021 at 12:12 PM
hesb
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p.8 #8 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


I have thought today about these relatively slow apertures. As many I have been a bit disappointed, and would have like better a 50 F2 for example.

But, in the end it really depends on how the lens behaves considering vigneting.

I mean I like fast lenses not mostly because of shallow depth of field, but because I shoot in low light conditions. And for example if I want to use a canon RF 50 1.2 in low light, it vignettes so much and so quickly, that if I expose for something in midframe, I will have to expose as if it was a F/2 lens... making this lens not so great for low light situation.

I have used the apo 50 but finally sold it, because again it vignettes a lot and very quickly, and wide open it makes my camera behaving as if it was a f2.8 lens.
It's the same with old lenses: my FD 50 1.4 wide open does not catch more light than at F/2...


What my conclusion is: if these new lenses do not vignettes (or very ligthly), and if f2.5 is a real f2.5, it might be more interesting and more usable than a F/2 that vignettes a lot (like the apo lanthar)



Mar 20, 2021 at 12:46 PM
chiron
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p.8 #9 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think this shows some ignorance of Leica history. The first three Leica lenses introduced were a 35mm, a 50mm, and a 135mm, and the Leica 90 Thambar was made for Leica in 1935 for the very first Leica screw mount system. Leica has for a long time embraced the 90mm and 135mm focal lengths. These are not an odd focal lengths by any stretch of the imagination for Leica and have a long and distinguished history on the Leica platform. The 90mm and 135mm focal lengths in Leica history actually preceded the 24mm focal length and the 40mm
...Show more

Rude, but unconvincing and not to the point. Obviously they made some moderate lengths. Not the point. How many lenses do they sell in each focal length category?



Mar 20, 2021 at 01:06 PM
realVivek
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p.8 #10 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


There are Leica handbooks that actually list all the stuff they churned out and how many per year. I even have a few of those from the past. Not a big deal.

Sony does not have to emulate Leica. In fact, Leica are following Sony and others. Their Ms now can take an EVF and are all sporting live view.


chiron wrote:
Rude, but unconvincing and not to the point. Obviously they made some moderate lengths. Not the point. How many lenses do they sell in each focal length category?





Mar 20, 2021 at 01:33 PM
 


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bjornthun
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p.8 #11 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think you missed my point. I am not saying Sony is not going for small high IQ lenses with these new announced lenses, and I am certainly not saying they are turning away from bigger Pro lenses (there recent introductions make it clear that isn't happening), what I am saying is that if they want to support the A7c or compactness for the Sony E mount system, what is really needed is some longer lenses not more shorter focal length lenses. If you want to shoot the A7c for a compact system you have tons of choice lenses
...Show more

The current small Sony E-mount lenses are 28/2, 35/1.8, 35/2.8 ZA, 50/1.8 and 55/1.8 ZA. So the 24/2.8 G immefiately adds to the rsnge of small lenses. The 40/2.5 G and 50/2.5 G are not as obvious additions here and now, but they may share a 40.5mm filter size. All of the G lenses may have aperture rings, which improves operation with the A7c, which has fewer wheels/dials than thevordinary A7/s/r models. The only high quality small lenses currently are 35/2.8 ZA and 55/1.8 ZA. The nifty-fifty 50/1.8 extemds while focusing. So, it’s easy to make a case for the 24/2.8 G as an addition of high quality lenses. The case for the 40/2.5 G and 50/2.5 G will likely be one or more of the following; aperture ring, diminutive size with 40.5mm filter and Sony/Minolta as opposed to Zeiss rendering. A small filter thread is a Leica thing, small M-lenses with diminutive 39mm filter diameter, and 40.5mm filter diameters appears just as small. So enough reasons to make another 50mm and 40mm lens. To some 40mm is sufficiently different from both 35mm and 50mm to warrant a purchase, as it is semi-normal.

Let’s also wait and see the price tags of the 40/2.5 and 50/2.5 compare to 35/2.8 ZA and 55/1.8 ZA. My guess is that the 35/2.8 ZA isn’t that competitive against the Samyang 35/2.8 and Tamron 35/2.8.

A line of compact G lenses may see more lenses, hopefully 85/2.8 and 135/3.5 added later.

135mm is not Leica-specific. Each and every manufacturers have made a ton of them, and they were popular before the advent of cheap and good tele-zooms in the 1970s.

Leica 90mm Thambar is a special portrait lens, not a regular 90mm. We could just as well say that Tamron owns the 90mm focal length with their many incarnations of Tamron 90/2.5 and 90/2.8 MF and AF macro lenses.



Mar 20, 2021 at 01:38 PM
chiron
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p.8 #12 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


realVivek wrote:
There are Leica handbooks that actually list all the stuff they churned out and how many per year. I even have a few of those from the past. Not a big deal.

Sony does not have to emulate Leica. In fact, Leica are following Sony and others. Their Ms now can take an EVF and are all sporting live view.




I didn't mean to suggest that Sony was emulating Leica. Sony is less emulating than perhaps incipiently displacing them for uses favoring a small, fast, high quality kit.

Perhaps that is why Leica is raising their prices substantially--to enhance the aura of Je ne sais quoi that surrounds their brand. Though many of their lenses are very fine.

I spent some of the last month wondering whether I should plunk down 10k to savor this rare essence. At the moment, I seem to have recovered. If these new G lenses go where I hope they will, that will help me to stay recovered.



Edited on Mar 20, 2021 at 02:00 PM · View previous versions



Mar 20, 2021 at 01:48 PM
LBJ2
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p.8 #13 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


bjornthun wrote:
The current small Sony E-mount lenses are 28/2, 35/1.8, 35/2.8 ZA, 50/1.8 and 55/1.8 ZA. So the 24/2.8 G immefiately adds to the rsnge of small lenses. The 40/2.5 G and 50/2.5 G are not as obvious additions here and now, but they may share a 40.5mm filter size. All of the G lenses may have aperture rings, which improves operation with the A7c, which has fewer wheels/dials than thevordinary A7/s/r models. The only high quality small lenses currently are 35/2.8 ZA and 55/1.8 ZA. The nifty-fifty 50/1.8 extemds while focusing. So, it’s easy to make a case for the
...Show more

Good reminder and nice summary. I like the way you lined up the existing with the coming. Makes for a compelling native, small and compact FE lens system when looked at as a whole.

I kept my original FE 35 F2.8 and FE 55 F1.8 simply because they are very good lenses when I need to use Sony FF light & tight as possible without giving up native system features and functions.

Personally, I can't wait to see what these new Sony lenses look like. The 2.5 aperture brings a few interesting possibilities particularly when I think about the FE 35 F2.8...or even "pancake"?



Mar 20, 2021 at 01:58 PM
LBJ2
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p.8 #14 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


chiron wrote:
I didn't mean to suggest that Sony was emulating Leica. Sony is less emulating than perhaps incipiently displacing them for uses favoring a small, fast, high quality kit.

Perhaps that is why Leica is raising their prices substantially--to enhance the aura of Je ne sais quoi that surrounds their offerings.

I spent some of the last month wondering whether I should plunk down 10k to savor this rare essence. At the moment, I seem to have recovered. If these new G lenses go where I hope they will, that will help me to stay recovered.


I better send you some more Leica videos...fast

Oh wait, here's a nice one "An Artist taking photos of another artist, Leica Style"

&t=5s



Mar 20, 2021 at 01:59 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #15 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


chiron wrote:
Rude, but unconvincing and not to the point. Obviously they made some moderate lengths. Not the point. How many lenses do they sell in each focal length category?


Really, rude? Just because I point to some history to support my point and it challenged your point. You were the one who brought up what lenses Leica made first and it is a fact when they brought out the first Leica screw mount rangefinder they introduced three lenses a 35mm, a 50mm, and a 135mm. Leica has sold a lot of 90mm and 135mm lenses and they have sold a lot more of these lenses than they have 40mm lenses. Hey if you want shorter focal length lenses and don't want longer ones that is fine. I am not challenging that, but I do challenge that 24 and 40 mm lenses are historically the lenses Leica has made because they are not. Even modern Leica lenses have frame lines for 90 and 135mm lenses, but no frame lines for 24 or 40 mm lenses. All I said is that we have a dearth of small longer lenses and lots of 24-50mm small lenses and I wish (that is my personal preference) that they would have made longer small lenses. I am not sure why that offends you, but please don't call me rude for bringing up that point and noting the relevant history behind my position.



Mar 20, 2021 at 02:20 PM
chiron
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p.8 #16 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


LBJ2 wrote:
I better send you some more Leica videos...fast

Oh wait, here's a nice one "An Artist taking photos of another artist, Leica Style"

&t=5s


You are the very devil, LBJ! The appeal is very seductive and the work that has been done with that camera line is truly fabulous. I bought the book "Eyes Wide Open! 100 Years of Leica Photography." Oversized, beautifully printed, and a very thick 564 pages (weighs about 9 lbs.). It was cheaper than a Leica Noctilux lens cap.

I do envy the glass and also the slender feel of the most recent bodies that are said to recall the handling of earlier Leicas. But I also feel that for my eyes and my frequent subjects, I tend to need excellent autofocus (especially indoors or in dim light where zone focusing doesn't get you much). Also, I am a big fan of IBIS. I know there are good ways around all these factors, and the work that is done with Leica cameras and lenses is wonderful.



Edited on Mar 20, 2021 at 02:34 PM · View previous versions



Mar 20, 2021 at 02:25 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #17 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


bjornthun wrote:
The current small Sony E-mount lenses are 28/2, 35/1.8, 35/2.8 ZA, 50/1.8 and 55/1.8 ZA. So the 24/2.8 G immefiately adds to the rsnge of small lenses. The 40/2.5 G and 50/2.5 G are not as obvious additions here and now, but they may share a 40.5mm filter size. All of the G lenses may have aperture rings, which improves operation with the A7c, which has fewer wheels/dials than thevordinary A7/s/r models. The only high quality small lenses currently are 35/2.8 ZA and 55/1.8 ZA. The nifty-fifty 50/1.8 extemds while focusing. So, it’s easy to make a case for the
...Show more

First, I never said that 90mm and 135mm lenses are Leica specific or that Leica owns these focal lengths. I am not sure where you got that idea. All I said is that 90mm and 135mm lenses were developed for the first Leica rangefinder cameras and have historically been a big part of the Leica rangefinder portfolio of lenses. Leica rangefinder including modern ones even includes frame lines for these specific focal lengths, when they don't for others (like 40mm) so if Sony is trying to emulate a Leica like rangefinder with the A7c and small lenses excluding 85 or 90 mm lenses and 135mm lenses doesn't fit that model. I'm not sure why Sony would really be trying to emulate Leica, however. They should stick to their own goals and priorities and those can and probably should diverge from a Leica like system.

I don't dispute that the 24 f/2.8, 40 f/2.5, and 50 f/2.5 would fit a range of small compact lenses for Sony E mount and an 85 or 90 f/2.8 and a 135 f/2.8 or f/3.5 would supplement these well. What I was questioning was the order that Sony chose to make these lenses. It just seems to me that it would have been wiser to build maybe the 24 f/2.8, which as you point out does provide something new to Sony although not new to the platform, and an 85 or 90 f/2.8, and a 135 f/2.8 or f/3.5 both of which would have provided something new to Sony and the platform. A 180 f/3.5 or f/4 would have also provided something new to Sony and the platform. Keep in mind it isn't just the Sony 35 ZA f/2.8 that is a small 35. Sony also has the 35 f/1.8 that is very small. So they will have a small 35 f/1.8, a small 35 f/2.8 and a small 40 f/2.5. They will also have a small 50 f/1.8, a small 55 f/1.8, a small 50 f/2.5 and a relatively small 50 f/2.8 macro, and this isn't even considering 3rd party lenses. It seems to me Sony could have waited on the 40 and 50 mm lenses and made some of the longer lenses where small lenses are totally missing from the platform.

Oh, and if Sony is going to develop a platform of small lenses then it seems like a nice small 28 f/2.5 G would have been a great place to start. To me the focal lengths that really need nice small lenses on the Sony E mount are 28, 85-90, 135, and 180. There is basically nothing small, light, and very high quality for these focal lengths. In contrast, 35, 40, and 50 have many options. I just would have liked to see Sony G lenses for these focal lengths for which there were not small good lenses yet.

Edited on Mar 20, 2021 at 02:52 PM · View previous versions



Mar 20, 2021 at 02:33 PM
chiron
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p.8 #18 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


LBJ2 wrote:
I better send you some more Leica videos...fast

Oh wait, here's a nice one "An Artist taking photos of another artist, Leica Style"

&t=5s


Very nice vid, LBJ! aaarrgghh. I'm going to take a cold shower now.



Mar 20, 2021 at 02:47 PM
chez
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p.8 #19 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


Maybe the 24-50 range of lenses sell way more than the 90-135 range of lenses. We can second guess Sony's reasoning...but in the end they have the insight into the industry's needs much more than we do here on FM.


Mar 20, 2021 at 02:47 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #20 · Pre-order Sony G lenses: FE 24mm f/2.8, 40mm f/2.5, 50mm f/2.5


chez wrote:
Maybe the 24-50 range of lenses sell way more than the 90-135 range of lenses. We can second guess Sony's reasoning...but in the end they have the insight into the industry's needs much more than we do here on FM.


That is no doubt true, but it still doesn't let me put together a set of E mount primes with any longer lenses. In the past 85-90mm lenses seem to have sold very well and 135 mm lenses as well. Maybe there is no market for people who share my preferences and dividing up the pie 5 or 6 ways between 24-50 is the way to go, but I want a set of small primes that includes at least one 85 or 90mm lens or 135mm lens and right now I can't do that on E mount without adapting.



Mar 20, 2021 at 02:57 PM
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