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Archive 2020 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).

  
 
1bwana1
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p.8 #1 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


chez wrote:
The results were poor going into the pandemic as well.



That is not the issue coming out of the pandemic. Nikon botched its entry into the mirrorless market. The Z6/Z7 cameras were not compelling enough to compete with offering from other companies successfully. Possibly even more important they were not compelling enough to cause mass conversion of Nikon's huge existing user, and fan base.

The competition for new photographers is what it is. But, competitive products combined with Nikon brand recognition will go a long way here in a Covid-19 recovering market.

I look at the existing user base as a huge buying pool with saved up kinetic energy to be tapped. If the new mirrorless offerings from Nikon are compelling enough, then the sales opportunities for conversion are tremendous. It is like a coiled spring of buyers waiting to unwind. That will be even more fun to watch then all this gloom a doom stuff if it happens.


Edited on Sep 08, 2020 at 06:48 PM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2020 at 02:47 PM
sjms
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p.8 #2 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


Takira71A wrote:
Speaking of the release of 'competitive' New Products from Nikon...
What do Forum Members think about the 'possibility' of there being a D850 (D880) DSLR successor?
--
I realize of course, that it has only been approximately three (3) years now...
Since the D850 was officially announced/launched/and first shipped.



actually the more important thing at least to me is the firmware update for the D500, D850, D5 to accept CFexpB cards along with the current XQD as promised awhile back. CFexpB cards from the likes of SanDisk and a few others were problem children out of the gate. these cards had issues in both the consumer and industrial arenas.



Sep 08, 2020 at 02:48 PM
Takira71A
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p.8 #3 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


sjms wrote:
actually the more important thing at least to me is the firmware update for the D500, D850, D5 to accept CFexpB cards along with the current XQD as promised awhile back. CFexpB cards from the likes of SanDisk and a few others were problem children out of the gate. these cards had issues in both the consumer and industrial arenas.


You have an 'Excellent' point there.
--
To announce something last December and still not follow through with it...

Cannot help but leave a bad taste (in the mouth) of all the 'loyal' customers who supported Nikon
with their respective Nikon D5, Nikon D850 or Nikon D500 Camera Body purchases.
--
I hear you...

This situation is quite disappointing. Hopefully, it can still be rectified by Nikon.

Edited on Sep 08, 2020 at 10:12 PM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2020 at 03:15 PM
sjms
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p.8 #4 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


its not just nikon it is the card makers both software and hardware. users outside of the photo industry too. the standard 2 edged sword scenario. a good "source" said it is a top down issue starting with the CFA.

now at this point in time i have a fairly good handful of XQD cards from the work i did and do so i'm good for some time. they have proven to be very robust and take a beating. one is scarred though but works just fine.



Sep 08, 2020 at 03:20 PM
Dragonfire
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p.8 #5 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


General Motors required a Federal Bailout to right that ship, unfortunately Nikon is not Too Big to Fail and I don't see Sony or Canon coming to the rescue.


Sep 08, 2020 at 05:44 PM
sjms
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p.8 #6 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


you also know they aren't in the US too. things run a little different there in JP.


Sep 08, 2020 at 06:04 PM
Dragonfire
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p.8 #7 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


Are you suggesting Japan will rescue Nikon?


Sep 08, 2020 at 06:23 PM
chez
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p.8 #8 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


Toshiba, another Japanese tech giant has been on its back with its legs kicking for the last few years. Yeh...they don't commit harakiri, but they slither away dreaming of what they once were. Sort of like Kodak is still alive...but inconsequential in the industry it once ruled...like Toshiba, Sanyo, Sharp...


Sep 08, 2020 at 06:27 PM
JadedWriter
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p.8 #9 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


I don't trust a single thing this man says about anything anymore so no, hard pass this video please. Granger selling his Nikon kit's also all types of stupid as well.


Sep 08, 2020 at 06:36 PM
sjms
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p.8 #10 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


Dragonfire wrote:
Are you suggesting Japan will rescue Nikon?


i can say that business will be transacted the way Japan does until it no longer is seen to be viable. at this point in time its not been reached. when will that happen? not our decision.
they think different then we do
they work different then we do
they act different then we do
they are not us

you should go over and spend some time there to observe


Edited on Sep 09, 2020 at 02:59 AM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2020 at 06:45 PM
JadedWriter
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p.8 #11 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


The kicker is that they used a heavily brand biased idiot to make said thread. Anybody stating TAP isn't biased hasn't watched enough of his vids. His anti Nikon 105 1.4 vids and two videos of his incessant whining about not getting a Nikon Z50 on loan from Nikon is what made me unsubscribe. I can't believe he had the Hubris to even ask for one when he spent what I think was a year lambasting the Z cameras. When you factor in his Sony bashing, Nikon's sensor provider I'd blacklist his ass too.
OwlsEyes wrote:
I can't believe I spent 15 minutes scanning through 6 pages of this shite!
Why is it necessary to bring your brand bashing crap onto the Nikon board. We are all aware that the Sony fan boys are taking their victory lap, the the Canon fan boys are high fiving their mega-corporate success, and that the Nikon shooters continue to take pictures.

If you don't like Nikon, great...
If you do like Nikon, ignore threads like these; I wish I did...
To quote President Number 43, “There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that
...Show more




Sep 08, 2020 at 07:15 PM
Lance B
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p.8 #12 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).




JadedWriter wrote:
The kicker is that they used a heavily brand biased idiot to make said thread. Anybody stating TAP isn't biased hasn't watched enough of his vids. His anti Nikon 105 1.4 vids and two videos of his incessant whining about not getting a Nikon Z50 on loan from Nikon is what made me unsubscribe. I can't believe he had the Hubris to even ask for one when he spent what I think was a year lambasting the Z cameras. When you factor in his Sony bashing, Nikon's sensor provider I'd blacklist his ass too.



The question is also why the OP posted it and why he is so fervent in his pleasure in continuing on with defending it. I should have stated earlier when I also stated that it serves no purpose other than for Ken Wheeler hits to his site, but it obviously also serves the OP in some deranged way. Does the OP even own a Nikon camera. Seems to troll all the brand forums here and has only "contributed" under 300 posts in 9 years. Hmm



Sep 08, 2020 at 10:05 PM
sector99
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p.8 #13 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


So, either it is early in the game, or this is not the clever stock price manipulation gambit.


Ahhh ... the "game". There's the rub. Indeed, the secret as yet unannounced world game is vastly larger than mere mortals imagine–ERGO the maneuvers at the top (NIKON) appear unintelligible to us low-level tin-foil-hatted earthlings.

Fear not, NIKON will surge (along with every other world business) in uncountable ways. Fist fights in AAPL stores. Meanwhile, the hired tattoo guy has done his job ... to frighten the unwashed masses and get them to dump NIKON shares even as insiders scoop up the loot.




Sep 08, 2020 at 10:57 PM
JadedWriter
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p.8 #14 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


I basically don't trust anybody preaching Angry Photographer. To have the gear that he has, the reach he has, the entitled opinion that he has and not even a basic portfolio to show for it is suspect. I have worked plenty of events and can easily and readily show it. I don't even recommend...anything without showing photographically why I like it and all he does is sit at a cheap desk and rant about crap and all of a sudden I'm supposed to believe him? No. As for the OP there's probably an agenda there. When it comes to Sony and Nikon these days I wouldn't take anything he says as gospel.
Lance B wrote:
The question is also why the OP posted it and why he is so fervent in his pleasure in continuing on with defending it. I should have stated earlier when I also stated that it serves no purpose other than for Ken Wheeler hits to his site, but it obviously also serves the OP in some deranged way. Does the OP even own a Nikon camera. Seems to troll all the brand forums here and has only "contributed" under 300 posts in 9 years. Hmm




Edited on Sep 09, 2020 at 12:16 AM · View previous versions



Sep 08, 2020 at 11:40 PM
mysh
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p.8 #15 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


I don't mind the discussions about Nikons current state but I do take issue with how it is framed a lot of times. Nikon has gotten bashed since the Z launch and its not justified. I really don't think the Z launch is the main factor with nikons current financial state. It contributes since the youtube movement disapproved but there is bigger things going on.
Nikon is the smallest of the 3 companies and therefore will have a harder time weathering a bad camera market. They don't have the diversification that canon and Sony has to help lift up a camera division that is sinking due to plummeting sales numbers. I don't doubt Nikon has some major issues but to act like its solely due to the Z releases is wrong.

Lets be truly honest about the Z cameras. People act like they come up short compared to competitors and its not reality. The Z6 was arguably the best camera in that class until a couple months ago. All cameras have pros/cons but the Z6 stood up well to any other camera in its class.
The Z7 was the 2nd best camera in its class till a few months ago and in my opinion was the best for certain uses. I am a landscape photographer and before the A7R4 I wouldn't want any other camera. Of course there is the argument about AF which is valid but for my use its is irrelevant. The Z7 excelled at scapes, studio and product photos and this is the audience this camera is designed for.
I know there is the whole single card issue but the other big company dropped the ball as well. Canons offerings were so weak in many ways. No IBIS, single card slot, weird new joystick replacement, and a sensor that was outdated 8 years ago.
I find it funny that canon finally releases a decent mirrorless a month ago and all of this is forgotten. People act like Nikon is so behind when these latest cameras were just released. I also think people forget the true cycle for these FF cameras. People want to act like its a 6 month cycle, it is 2+ years. Nikon is still on cycle and if they don't exactly meet it I think a certain pandemic has something to do with it.

If Nikon comes out with a killer mirrorless in the next 6 months everyone will forget all of this, but that won't change the greater issue anyways which is the camera industry is struggling and Nikon is small in comparison. Thats why the Z release and how they stack up against other brands isn't a huge factor. Cameras as a whole are amazing now from all these brands yet sales are diving. It's bigger than specs.
Also people keep thinking something ground breaking needs to happen, yet in reality groundbreaking with current tech just isn't going to happen.
People raved about the R5 but what did it truly add to the class. 8K(sort of) and faster than expected FPS. Otherwise this amazing camera just caught up with IBIS and a good sensor.

One last thing the D850 is the greatest DSLR ever made and its 3 years old. That isn't much older than the typical cycle. This just shows how impatient people are. They like to act like Nikon has does nothing good for years and they have acted that way for the past 2 years yet the D850 was still on the newer side.



Sep 09, 2020 at 12:36 AM
mapgraphs
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p.8 #16 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


The elephant in the room (not the one these clowns keep trying to pass off as a tree trunk) is the D850 et. al. and the established Nikon user base. Aside from the users who traded their D850 for the Z7, a lot of the established base is going to move slowly to upgrade, but they will eventually upgrade - to a newer Nikon. Nikon makes the best digital still camera, the one everything else is measured against. Period.

Canon and Nikon (and Pentax and Leica...) have weathered down cycles, and know what to expect. And in the past have marketed to their existing base... Unlike consumer electronics companies which will move from one piece of electronics to another, or simply drop an entire line, without a second thought.

The difference is in the manufacturing details. Some companies build products to last; other companies build to mass market. Canon and Nikon have a long term view of product... they don't use plastic clips or shims in place of lock screws. Their cameras are going to be working for decades, hence, they're going to look to their established base because they have invested in the goodwill....

"the established reputation of a business regarded as a quantifiable asset... "



Sep 09, 2020 at 06:53 AM
mawz
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p.8 #17 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


JadedWriter wrote:
I don't trust a single thing this man says about anything anymore so no, hard pass this video please. Granger selling his Nikon kit's also all types of stupid as well.


Watch Granger's video about selling his gear.

He's not being clickbait and it wasn't stupid. It is however very specific to what he does for a living, the current state of his business and his plans for the future.

He's primarily doing video and mixed video/stills work these days, is barely working at the moment due to local lockdown conditions and does not expect things to recover before the Z6/Z7 refresh that is expected in the fall.

He sold the DSLR gear that he's not actively using and doesn't expect to need for his work while the market is up, is sitting on the proceeds and is planning to invest in new gear in the fall after the Z6/Z7 refresh, and likely in Z gear unless there's a showstopping issue with the new bodies for his uses (like the R overheating issues which he does mention).

He also took the opportunity to give away some of his older gear to some folks he knows (like his D200).



Sep 09, 2020 at 07:14 AM
mawz
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p.8 #18 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


mapgraphs wrote:
The elephant in the room (not the one these clowns keep trying to pass off as a tree trunk) is the D850 et. al. and the established Nikon user base. Aside from the users who traded their D850 for the Z7, a lot of the established base is going to move slowly to upgrade, but they will eventually upgrade - to a newer Nikon. Nikon makes the best digital still camera, the one everything else is measured against. Period.


The caveat here is 'will they actually upgrade'. People expected this from the D780 for D750 & D6x0 users. It really didn't happen. D750 users largely kept their D750's or moved elsewhere (and elsewhere was largely not a Z6).

Nikon needs compelling options for their installed base. We've now seen 3 DSLR releases in a row from Nikon for the enthusiast & pro markets that simply aren't compelling (the D7500, the D780 and the D6). Competent for sure, but not compelling and all of these seem to have had sales issues (oddly the D6 seems to both be in short supply and moving slowly, which suggests Nikon isn't producing very many of them).

This is as much or more Nikon's marketing issues than the hardware itself. Nikon doesn't know what their users want anymore (Because they don't talk to users), doesn't know how to position what their engineers are creating in the market, doesn't know how to manage the modern PR environment (they're still managing PR like it was 2000 and Magazines and the big name stores are all that mattered) and has complete missed the boat on managing the story around the Z mount.


Canon and Nikon (and Pentax and Leica...) have weathered down cycles, and know what to expect. And in the past have marketed to their existing base... Unlike consumer electronics companies which will move from one piece of electronics to another, or simply drop an entire line, without a second thought.


DL, OneMission, CX... Nikon will drop entire lines without a thought.

They ARE a consumer electronics company, willing to admit it or not. And they do behave like it, except consumer electronics companies engage with consumers and Nikon doesn't.


The difference is in the manufacturing details. Some companies build products to last; other companies build to mass market. Canon and Nikon have a long term view of product... they don't use plastic clips or shims in place of lock screws. Their cameras are going to be working for decades, hence, they're going to look to their established base because they have invested in the goodwill....


D800 AF & frame issues, D600 shutter, D750's multiple recalls, Z6/7 AF, D850 max FPS challenges (due to contact issues on the grip), D500 lockups, the D6 is already looking like a potentially badly buggy release (nobody's sure if it's bugs or just bad documentation around VR/FPS interaction)

Nikon's spent 10 years building a rep for buggy hardware on initial release and being unwilling to address or even admit to mistakes in manufacturing or design.

Also the CFe update for the D5/D850/D500 which was announced in February 2019 is now 18 months late...


"the established reputation of a business regarded as a quantifiable asset... "


So true, and Nikon has unfortunately does a very bad job of managing their reputation for the last 10 years or so. They've both over-relied on their rep and badly bruised it at the same time.

Nikon isn't failing, but if they don't start solving their marketing engagement issues, all the good engineering in the world won't sell cameras that people don't know about and which don't have the changes the users want. Nikon needs to start doing better with each release, rather than repeating the same mistakes over & over, or even worse, making new & obvious ones (Z5 announcement was a trainwreck, they did everything wrong in terms of the launch itself after watching Panasonic, Canon & Sony do most things right, and it was followed by Olympus & Panasonic doing things right. Just look at the S5 buzz vs the Z5. The Z5 should have far more buzz, but nobody had them until a month after the announcement and by then, nobody cared because something else was new & interesting)

The number one thing Nikon needs to do is figure out that their Ambassadors are not just for producing images for ads which have known names on them. They need to get hardware in the hands of their ambassadors prior to launch of anything and engage with potential Ambassadors who are active in Social media. Contrast Nikon's handling with how Fuji & Olympus in particular use their Ambassadors (Fuji is the absolute king of this and it's a large reason why they've gone from zero to #3 in the mirrorless space, #4 overall in the market since 2012). Sony, Panasonic & Canon do good jobs as well, Nikon doesn't even bother. We should have been flooded by posts from big-name Nikon shooters demonstrating the Z5 at the end of July. Instead we waited a month for a handful to get their mitts on them a few days before the retail release. I wonder why pre-orders of the Z5 were reported to be weak? Because the Z5 simply wasn't on anybody's radar because Nikon Marketing only put out an ad or two rather than actually running a proper campaign.

Edited on Sep 09, 2020 at 08:17 AM · View previous versions



Sep 09, 2020 at 07:33 AM
JadedWriter
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p.8 #19 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


I watched the video. I'd sell what I'm not using, but I'd personally still keep the bodies or at least one of them. From what I've been seeing from other perspectives he could have got a Z6 and a 24-70F4 for his videos and be fine with it unless he's shooting stuff that's beyond the capability of that camera and lens combo.
mawz wrote:
Watch Granger's video about selling his gear.

He's not being clickbait and it wasn't stupid. It is however very specific to what he does for a living, the current state of his business and his plans for the future.

He's primarily doing video and mixed video/stills work these days, is barely working at the moment due to local lockdown conditions and does not expect things to recover before the Z6/Z7 refresh that is expected in the fall.

He sold the DSLR gear that he's not actively using and doesn't expect to need for his work while the market is up, is
...Show more




Sep 09, 2020 at 08:08 AM
mawz
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p.8 #20 · NIKON NEWS -- Worse than I thought (*NOT my words).


JadedWriter wrote:
I watched the video. I'd sell what I'm not using, but I'd personally still keep the bodies or at least one of them. From what I've been seeing from other perspectives he could have got a Z6 and a 24-70F4 for his videos and be fine with it unless he's shooting stuff that's beyond the capability of that camera and lens combo.



I suspect he could have as well, but I also think he knows he doesn't really need anything until after the new Z's drop, so there's no point for him to buy a Z6 right now rather than a Z6s in 3 months. It's worth selling now because there's a bubble in the used market.



Sep 09, 2020 at 08:13 AM
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