Chimping wrote:
This Adorama dude says blackout free at 40 seconds and at the 3 minute mark. He also takes some shots which blackout for a second, but don’t appear (to my eyes) to have frame insertion; not sure what mode he was in, tho (mechanical, electronic shutter, etc.).
I have seen that video. Yes it is hard to tell what he was using.
Chimping wrote:
This Adorama dude says blackout free at 40 seconds and at the 3 minute mark. He also takes some shots which blackout for a second, but don’t appear (to my eyes) to have frame insertion; not sure what mode he was in, tho (mechanical, electronic shutter, etc.).
It won't be electronic. We know electronic is sort of the same all the time...always 20FPS and doesn't have any real sense of blackout. Just like 1DXIII in LV.
But when a guy makes a statement like "no blackout just like my DSLRs" then I don't think he has a clue what blackout really is
Zenon Char wrote:
So the Sony uses frame insertion as well but because of the read speed you don't notice it? At their site it says blackout free shooting but is related to the electronic shutter.
Sony blackout free is on the A9 in e-shutter. On the A9 in Mechanical it is live feed with just the shutter blackout as expected. This is better IMO to have the shutter blackout and no frame insertion for shooting BIF. But the best is of course blackout free e-shutter which just looks like you are looking at a live video feed the entire time....no blackout, extremely minimal delay.
I don't recall seeing this video before even though it was 4 days ago.
At the 10:45 mark you can see his settings are ES, H+ (20FPS) and AI Servo. There is a blackout after the shot. But I think what this is is when you stop a burst you get that "blackout"...actually not really a blackout but just a stutter which I think is the camera coming out of the blackout free slideshow it does while you hold the shutter down and do a burst. Basically the 20FPS ES mode is blackout free with very fast frame insertion and then when you stop your burst you get that "jump" as it goes back to real time view. At least that is how I see it working.
Caveat: the above is on R6. You can also see earlier in the video a lot of rolling shutter when he tests panning shooting a straight pole.
On a positive note, the bird tracking looks phenomenal!!
arbitrage wrote:
It won't be electronic. We know electronic is sort of the same all the time...always 20FPS and doesn't have any real sense of blackout. Just like 1DXIII in LV.
But when a guy makes a statement like "no blackout just like my DSLRs" then I don't think he has a clue what blackout really is
Yeah, I agree that he is not using the correct terminology. However, I can understand what he means; he’s referring to the slideshow effect of the R. From the Adorama video, it appears that in whatever mode he was using the slide show effect is either not there, or greatly reduced. Of course, the model wasn’t moving terribly fast, unlike a bird in flight, so it’s possible that this video is still not a great representation of what it will be like for other types of shooting.
Chimping wrote:
Yeah, I agree that he is not using the correct terminology. However, I can understand what he means; he’s referring to the slideshow effect of the R. From the Adorama video, it appears that in whatever mode he was using the slide show effect is either not there, or greatly reduced. Of course, the model wasn’t moving terrible fast, unlike a bird in flight, so it’s possible that this video is still not a great representation of what it will be like for other types of shooting.
Do you have 1DXIII? I'm 99% sure that all these modes are going to look just like what the 1DXIII does in all its LV modes Excepting that the 1DXIII can get to 20FPS vs 12FPS in LV mechanical which will probably look better at 20FPS than it does at the lower FPS.
arbitrage wrote:
Do you have 1DXIII? I'm 99% sure that all these modes are going to look just like what the 1DXIII does in all its LV modes Excepting that the 1DXIII can get to 20FPS vs 12FPS in LV mechanical which will probably look better at 20FPS than it does at the lower FPS.
No, I don’t. I haven’t had an opportunity to shoot with one yet, either. You could be right. Anyways, like you said - we aren’t too far away now from knowing the whole story. Just two more weeks!
I feel I should spin a bit of positivity back into this discussion and play the glass is half full view a little as I've mostly been looking for glass half empty things over the past week....
What we know is the R5/R6 scan speeds are much better than any Canon camera before (except 1DXIII). We also know they are much faster than other competitors like Nikon Z and Sony A7RIV.
I own and shoot with Nikon Z50 and Sony A7RIV with their very slow scan speeds.
Even with those much slower scan speeds, I've successfully used shutter modes both with frame insertion and with mechanical shutter to shoot BIF successfully. I've also "cheated" and used ES to shoot BIF and come away unscathed many times...ie I couldn't find any noticeable distorted wings etc in my larger BIF. Most times it really takes small/fast BIF to start to see the wonky distortion.
Therefore, even if the R5/R6 aren't up to the 1/160 (6ms) scan times of the A9, I think that for the vast majority of shooting, even for a lot of action and BIF, that the camera will be totally useable both in mechanical and ES. I think when I pick up the R5, I will just try and shoot it in ES all the time until I start to notice wonkiness in my images. Of course I will avoid ES for hummingbirds but for the rest like even for ducks IF I will give ES a try and see how often it ruins a shot or not.
I'm now tempting myself to put my pre-order back in....only live once and with this world these days that may not be as long as one would hope for....
Yes ... true in the USA anyway, as we have allowed the Covid-19 virus to run rampant.
arbitrage wrote:
I'm now tempting myself to put my pre-order back in....only live once and with this world these days that may not be as long as one would hope for....
arbitrage wrote:
I feel I should spin a bit of positivity back into this discussion and play the glass is half full view a little as I've mostly been looking for glass half empty things over the past week....
What we know is the R5/R6 scan speeds are much better than any Canon camera before (except 1DXIII). We also know they are much faster than other competitors like Nikon Z and Sony A7RIV.
I own and shoot with Nikon Z50 and Sony A7RIV with their very slow scan speeds.
Even with those much slower scan speeds, I've successfully used shutter modes both with frame insertion and with mechanical shutter to shoot BIF successfully. I've also "cheated" and used ES to shoot BIF and come away unscathed many times...ie I couldn't find any noticeable distorted wings etc in my larger BIF. Most times it really takes small/fast BIF to start to see the wonky distortion.
Therefore, even if the R5/R6 aren't up to the 1/160 (6ms) scan times of the A9, I think that for the vast majority of shooting, even for a lot of action and BIF, that the camera will be totally useable both in mechanical and ES. I think when I pick up the R5, I will just try and shoot it in ES all the time until I start to notice wonkiness in my images. Of course I will avoid ES for hummingbirds but for the rest like even for ducks IF I will give ES a try and see how often it ruins a shot or not.
I'm now tempting myself to put my pre-order back in....only live once and with this world these days that may not be as long as one would hope for.......Show more →
arbitrage wrote:
I don't recall seeing this video before even though it was 4 days ago.
At the 10:45 mark you can see his settings are ES, H+ (20FPS) and AI Servo. There is a blackout after the shot. But I think what this is is when you stop a burst you get that "blackout"...actually not really a blackout but just a stutter which I think is the camera coming out of the blackout free slideshow it does while you hold the shutter down and do a burst. Basically the 20FPS ES mode is blackout free with very fast frame insertion and then when you stop your burst you get that "jump" as it goes back to real time view. At least that is how I see it working.
Caveat: the above is on R6. You can also see earlier in the video a lot of rolling shutter when he tests panning shooting a straight pole.
On a positive note, the bird tracking looks phenomenal!!
arbitrage wrote:
I feel I should spin a bit of positivity back into this discussion and play the glass is half full view a little as I've mostly been looking for glass half empty things over the past week....
What we know is the R5/R6 scan speeds are much better than any Canon camera before (except 1DXIII). We also know they are much faster than other competitors like Nikon Z and Sony A7RIV.
I own and shoot with Nikon Z50 and Sony A7RIV with their very slow scan speeds.
Even with those much slower scan speeds, I've successfully used shutter modes both with frame insertion and with mechanical shutter to shoot BIF successfully. I've also "cheated" and used ES to shoot BIF and come away unscathed many times...ie I couldn't find any noticeable distorted wings etc in my larger BIF. Most times it really takes small/fast BIF to start to see the wonky distortion.
Therefore, even if the R5/R6 aren't up to the 1/160 (6ms) scan times of the A9, I think that for the vast majority of shooting, even for a lot of action and BIF, that the camera will be totally useable both in mechanical and ES. I think when I pick up the R5, I will just try and shoot it in ES all the time until I start to notice wonkiness in my images. Of course I will avoid ES for hummingbirds but for the rest like even for ducks IF I will give ES a try and see how often it ruins a shot or not.
I'm now tempting myself to put my pre-order back in....only live once and with this world these days that may not be as long as one would hope for.......Show more →
You are justifying to yourself spending the money 😄
True you can take real good bif pictures with the z7 and the z50 and sure that the canon r5 can take excellent bif pictures, but the question can the R5 have the same performance of the a9/ii, and can the canon r5 succeed in scoring the same number of keepers with eratic subjects?
That remains to be answered by real world trial.
But I am happy if you buy one 😄 at least I can get a trustworthy real world review
This is exactly what I've been waiting for with Canon. 
