Geez, the Northrups? Guess they were upset that Canon didn’t give them a camera to play with. Generally, reality is pretty much opposite of ANYTHING they say.
dmcphoto wrote:
I think there's some confusion happening here. The big deal with Sony's A9/A9-II is that with e-shutter a captured image can be read from the sensor so fast that the video feed from the same sensor to the EVF has no noticeable interruption. AFAIK Canon's sensor readout speed is slower, so there is a noticeable interruption in the video feed when an image is captured. To hide it (and prevent the EVF from going black), they leave the last (just captured) image displayed in the EVF. The problem is that the image is stationary so when the video feed resumes the actual subject isn't where it was anymore. It creates a "slideshow" or momentary freeze frame effect and makes it harder to track fast movement.
There will always be blackout with mechanical shutter. It's unavoidable. But with e-shutter giving a much higher frame rate it's the one to use for very fast action, hence the concentration on e-shutter blackout or "slideshow" effect, rolling shutter, etc., with moving subjects. ...Show more →
I haven't seen that yet in the review videos of the R5. Sure the R had this, but I cannot make the assumption the R5 does. I am not confused at all about the process, as I have had other mirrorless cameras. It appears the R5 is fine during eshutter, but we want to know what is up with the mechanical 12fps and if there is both a shutter lag (like the DSLRs and also an electronic lag). I am fine with just a mech shutter lag like my 1D and 5D and 7D series, but don't want anything additionally added. 12fps is fine for what I shoot, I don't need 20fps especially if the last frame is played back, no way to really track anything with that implementation.
I had the R to get used to the EVF, sold after using my 1dx III in live view. I did so expecting that the R5 & R6 would be just like the using the 1dx Mark III in live view, I have no doubt that that will be the case! For those of you wondering if there will be a black out using mechanical, think about what you're asking! The 1 dx Mark III live view tracking is stellar and I'm looking forward to R6! Mechanical aint to bad either!!!!
This video from one of the Canon Ambassadors from Europe, Robert Marc Lehmann i thought really showed off the BIF capabilities of the R5. Bonus is he's using the RF 100-500 throughout.
There's one scene where he's shooting a diving bird and he mentions the 12 or 20 fps options. I didnt see the white box the e-shutter uses to indicate the shot was taken so I'm assuming it's the 12 fps mechanical.
Ralph Conway wrote:
Sorry, I did not see a lag. I Did even not see that the release button was pushed ...
Simply comparing to a9/a9ii from my personal experience, if you dont see lag then is good enough for you, no need other ppl to convince you otherwise. Merely providing some demo videos on the subject of lag in EVF. Pretty confident there will be more eshutter comparison video once R5 is released and we know once and for all.
Few of us need the best of the best, good analogy is why there are 60hz, 120hz, 240hz displays, most people are satisfied with 60hz and probably wont notice any difference moving to 120hz, 240hz or even higher refresh rate displays, and yet there is a market for them.
Is he actually shooting in those videos? I thought the white border is supposed to flash while firing in silent mode? Or is that just an option that he had turned off in these videos?
Regardless, photographing a subject coming towards you at slow speed is not going to be a problem at all no matter what the camera is doing. In these two videos it looks pretty fluid (assuming he is firing during the whole test).
Geoff Hui wrote:
A Japanese YouTube video showing the R5 in operation. At 8:28 the gentleman was shooting a Eagle in flight in continuous servo af. See link below
That looks fairly choppy and considering the eagle was just hovering. Some of that may be from shaky handholding technique but that also is likely because of the choppiness he isn't able to keep steady framing on the bird. That looks like frame insertion to me but would become more obvious if he was panning an eagle flying by. I assume that video is 12FPS mechanical with the shutter noise heard during the eagle shots? That is going to be Z series difficult to PAN with a flying bird. But still difficult for me to really tell what it will be like in reality with my honed techniques using all sorts of choppy MILC AF systems.
Keep sharing these videos you guys find...each one is one more piece of info to try and build a complete picture. Thankfully the rumour of a September R5 release was wrong so we will get lots of trusted reviews in just a couple weeks
arbitrage wrote:
Is he actually shooting in those videos? I thought the white border is supposed to flash while firing in silent mode? Or is that just an option that he had turned off in these videos?
Regardless, photographing a subject coming towards you at slow speed is not going to be a problem at all no matter what the camera is doing. In these two videos it looks pretty fluid (assuming he is firing during the whole test).
Yes Geoff, in the Blog post, he said he pressed the shutter thru out the demo video. It does look more fluid vs a7iii, maybe at 120hz refresh rate setting on EVF it might look better than it appears to be on the demo video.
In think there are far better examples (actual frames being taken with a card in camera) shown in these samples that were released.
From everything we have seen so far, I think it's safe to say that no matter how or what Canon did, the shutter lag/blackout concern in real life shooting has been put to bed. There is no issue for real life shooting. With the exception of not seeing any high speed tracking while panning quickly. The jury is still out on this one I think. But unless you shoot nothing but BSIF (Barn Swallows in flight) type of speed demons, there is little to be concerned about from what we've seen so far.
And on an even happier note, as Geoff has already mentioned, it appears the R4 and R5 AF tracking has dethroned the king and Canon now has the superior AF tracking.
And honestly, from what we're seeing, I don't see how AF tracking in any system could possibly get any better. It's just crazy!
arbitrage wrote:
Is he actually shooting in those videos? I thought the white border is supposed to flash while firing in silent mode? Or is that just an option that he had turned off in these videos?
Regardless, photographing a subject coming towards you at slow speed is not going to be a problem at all no matter what the camera is doing. In these two videos it looks pretty fluid (assuming he is firing during the whole test).
That was my questin above mentioned for. I did not see any shooting, too. But of course there is no frame counting in the uppwer left corner without a card to safe on.
The white border I'm referring to (and didn't see in the video) is the border that flashes around the image in the viewfinder when using silent eshutter at 20 fps. It's meant to show the shooter that yes, you are actually taking shots.
This border flash was demonstrated and explained in the B&H video shot locally here in NY.
I've been an avid photographer for decades but only started shooting birds in the past 2 years since retirement. I prefer the 5DIV to the R for that, but I've oredered the R5 based on the eye focus and fps. Just hopeful that the R5 has indeed corrected the R's lag and slideshow.
lighthound wrote:
In think there are far better examples (actual frames being taken with a card in camera) shown in these samples that were released.
From everything we have seen so far, I think it's safe to say that no matter how or what Canon did, the shutter lag/blackout concern in real life shooting has been put to bed. There is no issue for real life shooting. With the exception of not seeing any high speed tracking while panning quickly. The jury is still out on this one I think. But unless you shoot nothing but BSIF (Barn Swallows in flight) type of speed demons, there is little to be concerned about from what we've seen so far.
And on an even happier note, as Geoff has already mentioned, it appears the R4 and R5 AF tracking has dethroned the king and Canon now has the superior AF tracking.
And honestly, from what we're seeing, I don't see how AF tracking in any system could possibly get any better. It's just crazy!
So in the Bird and Zoo videos there is significant blackout and appears to be in One-Shot mode as the counter never drops more than 1 shot at a time or he is just being really careful to take only one shot at a time. Likely mechanical mode.
In the Dog video it must be in AI-Servo as each burst drops the shot count by a few shots at a time but I don't know if that is 20FPS silent or 12FPS mechanical (or a lower FPS mechanical). There is definitely frame insertion going on in those dog shots. It is not a smooth feed, use see the stutter. When we talk about blackout free on an A9 I don't think some people realize that it is literally identical whether you are just looking through the VF tracking along (AF engaged or not) as it is when you are firing away at 20FPS. The feed never changes.
Anyways, even for BSIF you can get shots with blackout (DSLR mirror or MILC shutter) and with a slideshow (A7RIV in H+ 10FPS mode)...I've done it many times...it is just not as easy as with an A9. I think the R5 will at least be as easy as an A7RIV...hopefully even better.
jtford9 wrote:
The white border I'm referring to (and didn't see in the video) is the border that flashes around the image in the viewfinder when using silent eshutter at 20 fps. It's meant to show the shooter that yes, you are actually taking shots.
This border flash was demonstrated and explained in the B&H video shot locally here in NY.
I've been an avid photographer for decades but only started shooting birds in the past 2 years since retirement. I prefer the 5DIV to the R for that, but I've oredered the R5 based on the eye focus and fps. Just hopeful that the R5 has indeed corrected the R's lag and slideshow....Show more →
Maybe the lack of flashing white border is because no card is in the camera?? Or maybe you can turn off that in the menus. I think on Jared's A9II vs 1DXIII LV there was no flashing outline and he made a point that you would have to keep an eye on the frame counter in upper left to know when he was firing the 1DXIII. But I'm not sure if the 1DXIII even has the flashing border option...maybe that was added to the R5/R6 due to complaints on the 1DXIII of never knowing if you were shooting or not??
Zenon Char wrote:
Start at minute 3. "100 frames consecutively with no lag".
I don't have sound on my work computer...is that what he says? Because he doesn't show a live screen to see.
Pointing the camera at two people standing against a wall isn't going to show you if there is lag/frame insertion anyways...it would only show you blackout or not.
Ah, hopefully the Fro or DPReview will get one soon enough, hook up the Atmos recorder and actually demonstrate the different modes. Also hopefully one of them actually pans along with a subject and doesn't just keep the camera in one position.
The 1 dx Mark III live view tracking is stellar and I'm looking forward to R6! Mechanical aint to bad either!!!!
