highdesertmesa wrote:
I can’t think of a single benefit to not have a grip texture on the focusing ring. Leica has it on their 35 APO M but not the more recent close focus Summilux M lenses. I had the 35 Lux close focus for a time, and the lack of a gripped focusing ring made it exceedingly annoying to focus at the closest distances since that moved the focusing tab way around the top of the lens, requiring a change of grip on the lens (and change of grip on the camera if shooting vertically).
C'mon, y'all are in the US of A where you can select from a ton of textured gun grip tapes to add some grip to the smooth focusing ring. I actually did this with the 28 Lux, plus my tripod's lugs. Only downside was that if it's hot enough, the tape adhesive becomes soft enough to allow the tape to move around...
They really want you to use the tab? The tab itself looks clunky with prominent extensions either side of the thumb piece. It appears to have a fast rotation - between 90-130 degrees, AI helpfully reports.
The source Leica 35/2 APO has an enormous 300 degree throw, mostly providing macro-level fine tuning from the 0.7m RF detent to MFD. I feel LLL will have to fit a knurled ring for focusing, for cold weather, gloves etc. And hopefully improve the tab. Not everyone likes tabs either.
A further issue is this: what effect will this lens have on resale value of the Apo-summicron-M 35/2? And even its retail pricing going forward, in the context of an energy-induced recession?
Zero. It's a Leica lens. The OG. Those who want the Leica, want the Leica. The LLL is for the rest of us who wouldn't have bought the Leica in the first place.
Historically Leica's retail prices have only gone up. That's not to say you can't negotiate better prices at independent shops, but I don't see Leica lowering dealer pricing. That said, with respect to the resale market, I generally don't think Leica lens prices typically hold higher value than most other major brands. They all take a substantial initial hit, unless it's something in low supply and high demand. I don't think Leica's 35 Cron APO is still in this category.
Its performance and rendering will guide the continuing independent development of apochromatic designs in other focal lengths.
Close-Focus Knurling: Knurled surfaces added for more tactile operation when using the lens in its close-focus range.
Because the close-focus-knurled version requires additional production capacity, it will enter the shipping schedule later than the smooth-barrel version.
The 35mm f/2 “Apochromatic” is the beginning of our project. Its performance and rendering will guide the continuing independent development of apochromatic designs in other focal lengths.
Due to our limited production capacity and the exceptional demands of manufacturing apochromatic optics, each lens will be produced and assembled individually by our team. Customers should therefore anticipate extended lead times between order placement and fulfillment.
Beginning in 2027, this work will expand with a newly developed 50mm lens, followed closely by other focal lengths. Each lens will feature its own new, independent optical design while carrying forward the standards established by the 35mm f/2 “Apochromatic.”
You make a strong case, Ron, with customary confidence. The choice for some might be :
'A used Leica APO-Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH lens generally sells between approx. $6,500 to $10,500 USD, depending heavily on its condition, box/accessories inclusion, and whether it is bought from private sellers or specialized retailers.'
and $2300 for the newcomer.
So a range of LLL APOs is in the cards. 50mm, then (guessing) 28mm and 75mm. They must have decent market feedback, high end optics of this ilk are very popular in China, the world's biggest ILC lens market. And the Chinese are very fond of their own lenses, which many mount on Japanese cameras. They don't much like fixed lens cameras, they associate them with phones.
How is the support and overall QC on LLL? 2,300 is "cheap" compared to the 35 cron APO, but is a lot of money for a third party prime regardless. This is not the range of a throwaway Chinese lens anymore. It seems LLL is one of the better Chinese lens makers, but the likes of voigtlander are tried and true.
philip_pj wrote:
You make a strong case, Ron, with customary confidence. The choice for some might be :
'A used Leica APO-Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH lens generally sells between approx. $6,500 to $10,500 USD, depending heavily on its condition, box/accessories inclusion, and whether it is bought from private sellers or specialized retailers.'
and $2300 for the newcomer.
So a range of LLL APOs is in the cards. 50mm, then (guessing) 28mm and 75mm. They must have decent market feedback, high end optics of this ilk are very popular in China, the world's biggest ILC lens market. And the Chinese are very fond of their own lenses, which many mount on Japanese cameras. They don't much like fixed lens cameras, they associate them with phones.
Leica has now long abandoned the 135mm that was quite compact even if F3.4, with the cameras having internal or optional EVF 135mm is no longer a challenging FL, some company should revisit the 135, maybe LLL. I am quite happy with my F3,4 apo Leica 135mm but for anyone coming in finding a good one is hit or miss and there is no new lens option.
Mystik wrote:
How is the support and overall QC on LLL? 2,300 is "cheap" compared to the 35 cron APO, but is a lot of money for a third party prime regardless. This is not the range of a throwaway Chinese lens anymore. It seems LLL is one of the better Chinese lens makers, but the likes of voigtlander are tried and true.
This is not the most expensive Light Lens Lab lens. The 50mm f/1.2 ASPH "1966" Titanium carried a pre-order price of $2,599 (now discontinued), while the 35mm f/1.4 ASPH "11873" Titanium Limited Edition retailed for $1,699 and it was a simpler lens to produce. The latter became one of Light Lens Lab's best-selling lenses to date, and I suspect the new APO may eventually dethrone it.
rscheffler wrote:
Zero. It's a Leica lens. The OG. Those who want the Leica, want the Leica. The LLL is for the rest of us who wouldn't have bought the Leica in the first place.
Historically Leica's retail prices have only gone up. That's not to say you can't negotiate better prices at independent shops, but I don't see Leica lowering dealer pricing. That said, with respect to the resale market, I generally don't think Leica lens prices typically hold higher value than most other major brands. They all take a substantial initial hit, unless it's something in low supply and high demand. I don't think Leica's 35 Cron APO is still in this category....Show more →
I agree. Leica is a luxury brand, and for many people that's part of the appeal. Some will always choose Leica regardless of the price because they appreciate the brand and the overall ownership experience. Many of those buyers also have the means to pick up a third-party alternative simply because they enjoy trying different lenses. Regarding Philip's point, if there were a significant shift in the global economy, we might see some changes in buying behavior. Even so, I think there will always be a niche of enthusiasts who value the Leica experience and are willing to pay for it.
Uofoducks15 wrote:
I’d like a titanium knurled version if possible. Curious how long I’d be waiting for that given they’ve said the knurled ones will not release first.
Excited for this lens though!
I believe I read that knurled versions will only be delivered in 2027.
I already have too many 35s for someone who claims not to love 35mm but I wonder a bit about LLL pricing, I just bought the 28mm 9 element off another member here and I really enjoy it, I also had the 35mm 8 element for a while which was a fun lens to use that I also got from a member here but it seems out there in the world the price of used LLL are so close to their Leica counter parts. Had I bought either of those lens on ebay, keh, adorama, mpb etc, they were "only" about 200 bucks off from getting the Leica counter part, I don't see a ton of LLL out in the wild and I do wonder if that's part of the problem.
Looking forward to see what other lens they produce though I'm still excited about seeing the designs and improvements.
Considering my experience with the 35/1.4 I bought from LLL, I'm not super keen to jump on this lens, and I'm finding myself more and more settled with the Funleader G45 as a goto lens for versatile everyday stuff, despite owning the Leica 50 APO. Pending the reviews, I'd be keen on a 28mm APO, since a nice, fast wide angle is a real gap in my collection and while the GRIV is decent, it's not a Leica shooting experience.
I know the Voigtlander 28 APO exists, but it's both large and lacking a focus tab.
As a neutral, I see too much chatter about LLL QC on this very forum to get excited about a $2000+ APO lens. The fact they excluded the knurling so they could have 2 distinct production runs is kinda oogey too.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree. Leica is a luxury brand, and for many people that's part of the appeal. Some will always choose Leica regardless of the price because they appreciate the brand and the overall ownership experience. Many of those buyers also have the means to pick up a third-party alternative simply because they enjoy trying different lenses. Regarding Philip's point, if there were a significant shift in the global economy, we might see some changes in buying behavior. Even so, I think there will always be a niche of enthusiasts who value the Leica experience and are willing to pay for it....Show more →
Fred,
From what I hear directly from Leica is that many lenses they barely sell anymore (in like over a year) and this has happened as alternative lenses, like LLL, have come to the marketplace.
The choice for some might be :