I'm actually curious in that 50mm Z21 they put out a year ago, but it seems like they're all sold out. Are LLL a one-run and done kinda manufacturer? I know they're a (relatively) small operation. I don't believe they restocked this lens when they did their recent restock as well.
Looks that way. I was thinking they will struggle to keep up with demand for their forthcoming APO lens. That situation will spur others to do something similar with special releases.
It will make their lenses collectors items, boutique lens that will trade at elevated price levels. We might see other well-prepared firms like DZO/Thypoch issue limited editions for 2x money. I hope so. There is an awfully large chasm between Leica pricing and LLL. Many people equate retail price with image quality, erroneously.
RomanMF wrote:
I'm actually curious in that 50mm Z21 they put out a year ago, but it seems like they're all sold out. Are LLL a one-run and done kinda manufacturer? I know they're a (relatively) small operation. I don't believe they restocked this lens when they did their recent restock as well.
Have you looked at eBay sellers? I bought my Elcan from a store, in Japan I think, when it was sold out on the website.
I have not. It's a new enough release that I didn't think I'd have to go the eBay route. They still have a CTA for stock notifications on the product page. If their releases are meant to be limited run, they should say that upfront. It won't quell hype, if anything it may make them sell out faster.
Did you buy from shotenkobo?
damonnomonon wrote:
Have you looked at eBay sellers? I bought my Elcan from a store, in Japan I think, when it was sold out on the website.
RomanMF wrote:
I have not. It's a new enough release that I didn't think I'd have to go the eBay route. They still have a CTA for stock notifications on the product page. If their releases are meant to be limited run, they should say that upfront. It won't quell hype, if anything it may make them sell out faster.
Did you buy from shotenkobo?
Yes, shotenkobo. qycamera is fine as well. I have bought from both of them and they shipped brand new lenses. I remember that before I ordered I asked if it was new or not, or some similar question, and they sent me photo of it to prove it was sealed and they had heaps on the shelf. It was a bit weird.
Edit: just checked my emails. This is the photo that shotenkobo sent me. But I ended up getting an offer from qycamera so I went with that.
Aluminum Black Paint
Aluminum Silver Chrome: order begins in November; shipping begins in early 2027
Titanium Gray Limited Edition (pictured above): preorders will start in August; shipment begins in September 2026 through November (shipping time subject to change due to difficulty of APO lens production)
Pricing will start at approximately $2,000-$2,300.
I watched an interview that Zhou spoke about the 35APO design, they cannot copy the design simply due to patent infringement, they're adding one element to the design and Zhou said they can already archive the level of the 35APO cron, and maybe a little better.
Aluminum Black Paint
Aluminum Silver Chrome: order begins in November; shipping begins in early 2027
Titanium Gray Limited Edition (pictured above): preorders will start in August; shipment begins in September 2026 through November (shipping time subject to change due to difficulty of APO lens production)
Pricing will start at approximately $2,000-$2,300.
Reliable information on the upcoming LLL 35mm f/2 APO:
Availability
Pre-orders open August 10th
First shipments begin September 30th
Lenses with close-focus knurling will ship later than smooth-barrel versions, due to current production capacity
Highlights
11 elements in 6 groups, including four aspherical elements and multiple elements made from ultra-low-dispersion and anomalous partial-dispersion glass
New high-transmission multilayer coating
Floating Optical System (FLE)
Close-focusing capability down to 0.3m
Miniature bearings within the precision-machined focusing mechanism for smooth, accurate operation
Close-Focus Knurling — adds a knurled focusing surface for improved grip
Key Specifications
Focal Length: 35mm
Aperture Range: f/2–f/16
Optical Design: 11 elements in 6 groups
Aspherical Elements: 4
Frame Coverage: Full frame, 36 × 24mm
Focusing System: Floating lens-element optical system
Focus Range: 0.3m to infinity
Diaphragm: Preset with half-stop lock settings
Aperture Blades: 11 (same as Leica 35mm f/2 APO)
Mount: Leica M-Mount quick-change bayonet
Filter Thread: E39
Lens Hood: E39 screw-on
Length: ~40.9mm without hood (same as Leica 35mm f/2 APO); ~49.3mm with hood
Diameter: ~53mm (same as Leica 35mm f/2 APO)
Weight (with hood): ~327g (aluminum); ~360g (titanium) -- For comparison the Leica 35mm f/2 APO weighs 320g
Available Finishes
Titanium Gray Limited Edition — titanium-alloy construction
Black Paint — aerospace-grade aluminum construction
Silver Chrome — aerospace-grade aluminum construction
Pricing: $2,049 – $2,349
-----
I've seen side-by-side comparisons with the Leica 35mm f/2 APO, and the LLL appears to offer stronger axial correction along with slightly better corner performance at f/2. LLL added an extra element yet kept the lens's size and weight nearly identical to the Leica. I also noticed a much-improved aspherical element production quality from LLL, now nearly matching Leica's. The bokeh rendering also looks nearly identical between the two, so if you like how the Leica 35/2 APO renders, you're getting essentially the same look with this lens.
Fred Miranda wrote: Breaking News: Light Lens Lab 35mm f/2 "Apochromatic"
Reliable information on the upcoming LLL 35mm f/2 APO:
Just making sure, is this your personal statement and not a copy from somewhere?
I've seen side-by-side comparisons with the Leica 35mm f/2 APO, and the LLL appears to offer stronger axial correction along with slightly better corner performance at f/2. LLL added an extra element yet kept the lens's size and weight nearly identical to the Leica. I also noticed a much-improved aspherical element production quality from LLL, now nearly matching Leica's. The bokeh rendering also looks nearly identical between the two, so if you like how the Leica 35/2 APO renders, you're getting essentially the same look with this lens.
rsolti13 wrote:
Just making sure, is this your personal statement and not a copy from somewhere?
I've seen side-by-side comparisons with the Leica 35mm f/2 APO, and the LLL appears to offer stronger axial correction along with slightly better corner performance at f/2. LLL added an extra element yet kept the lens's size and weight nearly identical to the Leica. I also noticed a much-improved aspherical element production quality from LLL, now nearly matching Leica's. The bokeh rendering also looks nearly identical between the two, so if you like how the Leica 35/2 APO renders, you're getting essentially the same look with this lens....Show more →
I've analized side-by-side comparison tests (both charts and real-world images) between the Leica and this new lens. I believe these were done by LLL themselves once they had a finalized production copy.
They installed a new (and very thin) element at L3. It sits between the L1-2 doublet and the L3-4 doublet. At first glance, it looks like a close copy but you can see quite large differences in some glass surface curvatures - always remembering we are dealing with block chart shapes that are subject to varying accuracies.
Every element adds correction so their claim (and your analysis) appear to reflect that inclusion. They will almost certainly have used HRI formulations as well, as did Leica in the source design. The new element probably won't be doing much heavy lifting so as not to overly interrupt the ray paths further down the design. Note the much more extreme curvature in the final elements behind the aperture - the triplet and the doublet, and even the last (asph) element. I doubt they would have any trouble with the patent, but plenty will stick to the 'Chinese copy' claim, unjustifiably in my view, in this instance at least. Sensible pricing too.
philip_pj wrote:
They installed a new (and very thin) element at L3. It sits between the L1-2 doublet and the L3-4 doublet. At first glance, it looks like a close copy but you can see quite large differences in some glass surface curvatures - always remembering we are dealing with block chart shapes that are subject to varying accuracies.
Every element adds correction so their claim (and your analysis) appear to reflect that inclusion. They will almost certainly have used HRI formulations as well, as did Leica in the source design. The new element probably won't be doing much heavy lifting so as not to overly interrupt the ray paths further down the design. Note the much more extreme curvature in the final elements behind the aperture - the triplet and the doublet, and even the last (asph) element. I doubt they would have any trouble with the patent, but plenty will stick to the 'Chinese copy' claim, unjustifiably in my view, in this instance at least. Sensible pricing too. ...Show more →
Great analysis Philip. It's clearly inspired by the Leica version, but with enough modifications (the extra element which seems to correct further, plus changes in glass curvature) that this can't fairly be called a replica. Leica did the heavy lifting in working out the overall optical strategy, but Light Lens Lab walked a fine line here, modifying enough to stand on their own while still landing remarkably close to the rendering and performance of one of Leica's best 35mm designs. That's a genuinely hard needle to thread, and they seem to have pulled it off.
Based on the tests I've seen comparing the Leica to the LLL, both lenses perform and render very similarly, which will make plenty of shooters happy given the price gap. If anything, I see slightly better corner performance on the LLL, along with slightly less distortion. Optical design is one thing, production is another though. The high price of Leica lenses comes largely from tight tolerance and quality control, which gets very expensive at this level of performance. Hopefully Light Lens Lab can hold that same tight tolerance in production, since this lens crossed the $2K mark, which isn't common for Chinese-made lenses.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Great analysis Philip. It's clearly inspired by the Leica version, but with enough modifications (the extra element which seems to correct further, plus changes in glass curvature) that this can't fairly be called a replica. Leica did the heavy lifting in working out the overall optical strategy, but Light Lens Lab walked a fine line here, modifying enough to stand on their own while still landing remarkably close to the rendering and performance of one of Leica's best 35mm designs. That's a genuinely hard needle to thread, and they seem to have pulled it off.
Based on the tests I've seen comparing the Leica to the LLL, both lenses perform and render very similarly, which will make plenty of shooters happy given the price gap. If anything, I see slightly better corner performance on the LLL, along with slightly less distortion. Optical design is one thing, production is another though. The high price of Leica lenses comes largely from tight tolerance and quality control, which gets very expensive at this level of performance. Hopefully Light Lens Lab can hold that same tight tolerance in production, since this lens crossed the $2K mark, which isn't common for Chinese-made lenses....Show more →
When you were were looking at files Fred, what did you think of overall contrast, micro-contrast and color between the two?
nehemiahphoto wrote:
When you were were looking at files Fred, what did you think of overall contrast, micro-contrast and color between the two?
They only shared Siemens star test charts comparing both lenses, showing resolution and contrast at center, mid-field, and corners. There was also a section comparing bokeh highlights, where I was surprised to see how good LLL's aspherical process has gotten, along with some fringing tests. Nothing exhaustive, but enough to see that both lenses perform at a similar level.
There are some sample images there but what caught my attention was this!
....Beginning in 2027, this work will expand with a newly developed 50mm lens, followed closely by other focal lengths. Each lens will feature its own new, independent optical design while carrying forward the standards established by the 35mm f/2 “Apochromatic.”
