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Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

retrofocus
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

realVivek wrote:
Well, you go with your assumptions and then expound on it. Oh, well.

Better coatings in the V2 version might help in regard to flaring/ghosting, color rendition. But normally coating has no effect on refraction which is causing the issue here on non-Leica sensors. If the V2 lens version works actually better on a Sony sensor - which I doubt as stated above - it is a clear sign that Leica modified more than just the coatings compared to the earlier version - for example one or several lens elements. It would be very interesting to know if this is the case!

Dec 10, 2019 at 06:50 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

From what I recall from the 28 M lens refresh, it was something about optimizing element spacing to better work with the SL's thicker sensor stack and to optimize across-frame wide open M performance. If you look at the block diagram for the two versions of the 28 Cron, they look identical, but perform quite differently at wider apertures, in respect to across-frame performance.

rscheffler wrote:
Version 2 is supposed to work better on non-M sensors. I.e. on the SL, but as I mentioned, I haven't read anything conclusive.

gyoung143 wrote:
I was under the impression it was merely a cosmetic 'upgrade'.
It would take more than minor tweaking to solve the problems mine showed on the A7, it wasn't even that good on my Xpro2, absolutely outclassed by the Fuji 35 f/2 for all it's software correction.

Gerry

That was my understanding, but you might be right and I may have lumped it in with the 28 Cron and Elmarit refreshes that improved performance on the SL. If the 35 Cron ASPH was further digitally optimized, it would have been for the SL sensor specs and not for Sony.

FWIW, the Canon 22/2 for their "M-series" APS-C mirrorless system trounced the 21 SEM (and 21 Lux) when I compared them a while back... The sensor toppings make a big difference, even on APS-C.

Dec 10, 2019 at 07:42 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

rscheffler wrote:
Version 2 is supposed to work better on non-M sensors. I.e. on the SL, but as I mentioned, I haven't read anything conclusive.

gyoung143 wrote:
I was under the impression it was merely a cosmetic 'upgrade'.
It would take more than minor tweaking to solve the problems mine showed on the A7, it wasn't even that good on my Xpro2, absolutely outclassed by the Fuji 35 f/2 for all it's software correction.

Gerry

I found some vague marketing info related to the announcement of the 35 Cron ASPH, 28 Cron ASPH and 28 Elmarit ASPH refreshes early in 2016 over at Red Dot Forum (Leica Store Miami).

Quote:

Leica has announced the redesign of three M lenses: Summicron-M 28mm f/2 ASPH, Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 ASPH and Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH. The new designs bring these standard reportage lenses up to date with screw-on rectangular metal shades, more robust build quality and some minor improvements in optical performance.

Leica isn’t offering too many particulars about the optical updates, other than to say that these lenses have reduced field curvature. This enables the updated lens designs to have improved sharpness across the entire image area, from center to corner.

----------------

Of course the assumption here is the optimization was primarily for the digital M cameras. Based on some user feedback, at least for the 28 Cron v2, such as image crops Michael (zhangyue) posted from the Panasonic S1 elsewhere on this board, that lens definitely is an improvement over the previous version on non-Leica mirrorless cameras. I haven't seen similar examples from the 35 Cron ASPH v2 to corroborate the above marketing-speak from Leica.

Dec 10, 2019 at 08:16 PM

joakim
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Well I signed up for the waiting list (haven't got any confirmation/reply though).

Dec 11, 2019 at 07:43 AM

mapgraphs
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

rscheffler wrote:
...
Leica isn’t offering too many particulars about the optical updates, other than to say that these lenses have reduced field curvature.

...

This is a definite clue...

Dec 11, 2019 at 09:11 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

joakim wrote:
Well I signed up for the waiting list (haven't got any confirmation/reply though).

Other than the auto-reply from Google Forms confirming the form's submission, neither have I. By the sounds of it on the RFF thread, they still haven't finalized how they will process payments. Also sounds like the release/shipping date hasn't been set. I guess it's a matter of waiting and keeping an eye on the RFF thread...

BTW, here's a tip when filling out the waitlist form: after submitting it, the confirmation page has a link to edit the form you sent. Copy and save this link somewhere because it's not included in the confirmation email you'll also receive. This allows you to revisit the form and change the information, like the custom engraving, etc. If you didn't do this, you can contact Kevin via his Gmail or on RFF to change something.

Dec 11, 2019 at 11:23 AM

joakim
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

rscheffler wrote:
Other than the auto-reply from Google Forms confirming the form's submission, neither have I. By the sounds of it on the RFF thread, they still haven't finalized how they will process payments. Also sounds like the release/shipping date hasn't been set. I guess it's a matter of waiting and keeping an eye on the RFF thread...

BTW, here's a tip when filling out the waitlist form: after submitting it, the confirmation page has a link to edit the form you sent. Copy and save this link somewhere because it's not included in the confirmation email you'll also receive. This allows you...Show more →

I have only sent a mail so far so I haven't got a link to the order form yet.

Dec 11, 2019 at 01:17 PM

Lee Saxon
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

I wonder if they were using two cameras side-by-side for that flair sample. If they had to switch lenses and the second photo was taken a few moments later with the sun further out of from behind the mountain, that might be the reason for the significant difference?

Dec 11, 2019 at 01:24 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Lee, I suspect that's a low probability. Based on the RFF thread, the OP is adamant it's due to it being a first-generation prototype. Because of those specific flare test photos and his discussion with the manufacturer, the design has since been corrected to minimize flare differences from the original. This would seem to be confirmed by the recent flare-free nighttime streetlight photos by another RFF member using a second-generation prototype.

At the moment I don't have the feeling there is reason to be skeptical about the information presented in the RFF thread. That said, we can only take their word for it, for now, until the lens ships and end 'independent' users report back.

Dec 11, 2019 at 02:07 PM

freaklikeme
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

It looks interesting enough, but I'm done buying 35's. They're fun for a couple of months and then the Mandler 'Lux works its way back into the bag. I'm also not a fan of polished brass, but I'd prefer it if all lenses were black, so I'm boring like that.

Dec 12, 2019 at 12:38 AM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

freaklikeme wrote:
It looks interesting enough, but I'm done buying 35's. They're fun for a couple of months and then the Mandler 'Lux works its way back into the bag. I'm also not a fan of polished brass, but I'd prefer it if all lenses were black, so I'm boring like that.

They also offer it in black as well as chrome.

Dec 13, 2019 at 02:28 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Apparently orders will no longer be taken/accepted as of "middle of the month" according to Kevin, the order-taker in the RFF thread. A specific date has not been provided, nor confirmed after I asked.

Sounds like production lenses will first be delivered to domestic customers (in China) because this project has been brewing for a couple years and they've apparently waited the longest. The LTM version will go into production about 3 months after the M-mount version. No word yet on when/if orders will be accepted for a potential second batch down the road.

Dec 13, 2019 at 06:45 PM

lenticular11
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

gyoung143 wrote:
My v1 8 element which I've owned from new did better than my asph on the A7 I had in regard of curvature of field problems, but as it's an M3 lens with goggles it looks rather ridiculous!

Gerry

I had the same 8-element goggled lens, sold in a moment of fiscal stress to a local dealer for a little less than I paid for it. It was a beautiful performer on my M9.

Sydney harbour pano by D Mc, on Flickr

Dec 19, 2019 at 05:47 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Ordered!

Dec 19, 2019 at 10:54 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Hey Gary, always glad to help you spend money on lenses!

Merry Christmas!

Dec 23, 2019 at 04:25 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

rscheffler wrote:
Hey Gary, always glad to help you spend money on lenses!

Merry Christmas!

I resisted for far too long Ron.

All the best to you as well! Take care.

Dec 31, 2019 at 01:06 PM

gyoung143
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

retrofocus wrote:
I doubt that coatings make a difference here. Reason why ASPH elements with a smaller f/2 rear lens diameter cause an issue on a A7 based sensor is that the aspherical glass element has been optimized by Leica to bend the incoming light at the sides of the lens just in the right way to optimize corner/border sharpness on a M camera sensor. The thicker sensor stack of Sony cameras (and likely other branded MLCs, too) leads to an additional light refraction overruling the optimized ASPH lens element effect. The latter refraction effect is less visible and nearly not existent...Show more →

Just been re-reading this thread, contemplating the possibilities! It's worth pointing out that the design of the aspheric Summicron 35 dates from film days, long before M8 even never mind the M9 etc. Its poor performance on thick sensor stacks is most likely due to exacerbated curvature of field, since it was possible to get sharp focus at the edges of the frame, but not at the same time as in the centre! Some of the few actual technical tests of Leica lenses are on Optical Limits, and the 35 Summicron asph doesn't do very well even on the M9. Its characteristics didn't matter much on film where I used it for 15 years on an M6ttl and an M3, they don't have a thick layer of glass on top of deep receptors, and the film isn't flat anyway.

Gerry

Dec 31, 2019 at 01:50 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Good points Gerry! I tried the 35 Cron ASPH v2 briefly at a Leica store and thought it did OK on the M240, but I wasn't necessarily wowed by it. I did some quick side by side comparisons against the CV35/1.7M and didn't see any compelling optical reason in favor of the Cron. Ergonomics were a whole different matter; I'm not a fan of the CV in that respect.

I've always loved the look of the Cron v1 (non-ASPH) and am really looking forward to receiving a replica from this project.

Happy New Year!

Dec 31, 2019 at 06:42 PM

derKoekje
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Anyone know the Chinese thread or site where you can place? I prefer to buy within China itself. Too bad I missed the deadline, I should have decided on going Leica earlier.

Jan 18, 2020 at 03:05 PM

derKoekje
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Anyone know the Chinese thread or site where you can place? I prefer to buy within China itself. Too bad I missed the deadline, I should have decided on going Leica earlier.

Jan 18, 2020 at 03:05 PM

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