I appreciate your remarks on rangefinder cameras. I’ve also learned to be careful to say “rangefinder style camera” when talking about the X100 or XPro cameras.
I recently purchased an X100F, and the leaf shutter is so quiet that I thought the camera must be stuck in electronic shutter mode. I took several photos back and forth between mechanical and electronic shutter, and there is indeed a tiny little sound the mechanical shutter makes - similar to the sound of the aperture closing or opening electronically. It’s weirdly quiet - much quieter than my already very quiet X-H1 shutter.
gdanmitchell wrote:
In order to escape the "rangefinder police," I use the term "rangefinder style." The X100v (et al) are, in fact, "rangefinder style" cameras modeled on the experience of using the older film cameras that actually did use an optical "range finding" system to manually focus.
Now, technically, all cameras are "range finder" cameras if they have any sort of focus assist system, be in analog or digital, since these systems do "find the range" of the subject. But I digress...
One other thing. The X100v (and predecessors) are not the only "silent" Fujifilm cameras. It is true that the old school shutter of these cameras is quieter than the old-school curtain shutter of most digital cameras. However, the quietest system of all uses the electronic shutter option that is available on many Fujifilm cameras. On my XPro2 the electronic shutter is literally completely silent. This is really useful in certain situations when silence is necessary – for example classical concert photography. (There are some downsides to consider, most importantly some issues with cycling light sources.)
Not me. I don't want to be swiping on a touchscreen like a fool trying to get the shortcuts to work, wasting time when I could have just pushed a button that I can find just by feel.
marsguy wrote:
Not me. I don't want to be swiping on a touchscreen like a fool trying to get the shortcuts to work, wasting time when I could have just pushed a button that I can find just by feel.
I have the xe-3 and miss the d pad. The swiping doesn’t always work and I occasional activate it without meaning to (yes I know you can mess with settings to turn half it off). Why not have both? Especially when there is room for it.
New lens (still 8 elements in 6 groups, but one more aspherical element). Also improved viewfinder. The rest is basically X-Pro3 specs. No weatherseeling mentioned unfortunately..
I'm pretty bummed about no weather sealing. I'd like to be able to use the camera on a misty morning or next to a waterfall without worrying about causing non-warranty-covered water damage. I'd like to be free of worrying about condensation inside the body/lens when (accidentally) bringing it from a cold environment to a warm one. I'd like to be free of worrying about dust on the sensor that I cannot remove. This was a no-brainer and it's not there after 3 years of time to find a way to make it work.
This reminds me of yearly cell phone upgrades... "don't give them everything they want in a single product, otherwise they will have no reason to upgrade". Then when you do get a feature you want, another one is removed (headphone jack/D-pad).
I sold my X100F thinking there's no way the V won't have WR, the one feature I want. Boy was I wrong... I genuinely think I won't be buying this body anymore. I might just buy a used X100F for the same price I sold mine for (or less).
marsguy wrote:
I'm pretty bummed about no weather sealing. I'd like to be able to use the camera on a misty morning or next to a waterfall without worrying about causing non-warranty-covered water damage. I'd like to be free of worrying about condensation inside the body/lens when (accidentally) bringing it from a cold environment to a warm one. I'd like to be free of worrying about dust on the sensor that I cannot remove. This was a no-brainer and it's not there after 3 years of time to find a way to make it work.
This reminds me of yearly cell phone upgrades... "don't give them everything they want in a single product, otherwise they will have no reason to upgrade". Then when you do get a feature you want, another one is removed (headphone jack/D-pad).
I sold my X100F thinking there's no way the V won't have WR, the one feature I want. Boy was I wrong... I genuinely think I won't be buying this body anymore. I might just buy a used X100F for the same price I sold mine for (or less)....Show more →
rattymouse wrote:
Wow....that was a premature sale. Incredible.
Was it though? I got $100 more for it than what everyone's charging now. It seemed based on the demand that there was no way they'd leave it out. It made a lot of sense to add it. I think it was a perfectly logical sale. I just was wrong about the outcome. If I buy a used X100F I might even save some money so I'd say it was a smart decision regardless.
marsguy wrote:
Was it though? I got $100 more for it than what everyone's charging now. It seemed based on the demand that there was no way they'd leave it out. It made a lot of sense to add it. I think it was a perfectly logical sale. I just was wrong about the outcome. If I buy a used X100F I might even save some money so I'd say it was a smart decision regardless.
Selling before the next model is even announced is always premature. There have also been about 0% reports of WR coming, it's only ever been a pipe dream. What if rumor sites were wrong and it had a 50mm equiv lens? Or the X-Pro3 screen?
You're giving up a known,usable product for something that is decently unknown until officially announced next week. Besides, WR is often over-stated. I've shot in wet, windy conditions with non sealed lenses and cameras and done perfectly ok as long as you're not dunking it, and then it still wont be covered.
I'm sorry buy you took a gamble and it didn't (apparently) pay off. You haven't anyone to be upset at but yourself.
BPsmith511 wrote:
Selling before the next model is even announced is always premature. There have also been about 0% reports of WR coming, it's only ever been a pipe dream. What if rumor sites were wrong and it had a 50mm equiv lens? Or the X-Pro3 screen?
You're giving up a known,usable product for something that is decently unknown until officially announced next week. Besides, WR is often over-stated. I've shot in wet, windy conditions with non sealed lenses and cameras and done perfectly ok as long as you're not dunking it, and then it still wont be covered.
I'm sorry buy you took a gamble and it didn't (apparently) pay off. You haven't anyone to be upset at but yourself. ...Show more →
BPsmith511 wrote:
Selling before the next model is even announced is always premature. There have also been about 0% reports of WR coming, it's only ever been a pipe dream. What if rumor sites were wrong and it had a 50mm equiv lens? Or the X-Pro3 screen?
You're giving up a known,usable product for something that is decently unknown until officially announced next week. Besides, WR is often over-stated. I've shot in wet, windy conditions with non sealed lenses and cameras and done perfectly ok as long as you're not dunking it, and then it still wont be covered.
I'm sorry buy you took a gamble and it didn't (apparently) pay off. You haven't anyone to be upset at but yourself. ...Show more →
I'm only upset at Fuji product management for not opting for WR, not for "making me" sell my camera "prematurely" or something. Yes, it was a gamble, and I lost. I'm not upset that I lost, I'm upset at why I lost (because Fuji dropped the ball, not because it was a bad bet).
At the end of the day there is nothing I can do. I should be thankful Fuji saved me $1500+tax, I'm just sad because all I wanted was an X100F with WR. Talk all you want about shooting in wet conditions; if my *only camera* dies because of it while I'm out on a week-long outdoor expedition, I have no other camera (sometimes I do not even have a phone). I need as much guarantee as possible that my camera will be able to withstand weather conditions I might experience, because if it fails, I lose the ability to record possibly once-in-a-lifetime experiences. This pushes me to a larger, heavier body which increases physical strain and takes up valuable room in a pack, when I could have had a light, compact body to do the job. But oh well. I am probably the only person in the Fuji ecosystem with this conundrum so it doesn't make sense to cater to me.
BPsmith511 wrote:
Selling before the next model is even announced is always premature. There have also been about 0% reports of WR coming, it's only ever been a pipe dream. What if rumor sites were wrong and it had a 50mm equiv lens? Or the X-Pro3 screen?
You're giving up a known,usable product for something that is decently unknown until officially announced next week. Besides, WR is often over-stated. I've shot in wet, windy conditions with non sealed lenses and cameras and done perfectly ok as long as you're not dunking it, and then it still wont be covered.
A couple more thoughts about this.
Not only is the gamble that an unknown future product will have a feature or features that haven't been announced for it, but...
... the only positive outcome from this gamble is that you might end up with a bit more money if you sell the current camera now rather than later... and get lucky.
So, basically the best case outcome is that you sold the old camera for a few hundred dollars more than you might have later and (outlier case here) the new incremental upgrade to the model is actually a lot better AND it includes features that no one predicted it would have.
Not all that likely.
More likely outcomes:
The new camera doesn't have giant, life-changing new features or capabilities. It has a few more MP in the sensor, maybe a slightly better lens, etc. You end up spending the difference between the sale price of the old camera and the new-product list price of the new one for improvements of dubious value, though you did decrease the delta between the two prices. (Of course, in this case, the decrease in value of the old camera when the new one arrives is perhaps not as large as you might have hoped.)
The new camera comes with something that you might regard as a negative — let's say the display system (or removal of OVF magnification scaling) on the XPro3. You decide that you would have been at least as well off with the camera you had, or that perhaps you would have been better off.
- - -
Today the increment of improvement from camera model to camera model is much smaller than it was, say ten years ago when the technology was less advanced and was improving in larger increments. Today it is almost never a worthwhile investment to upgrade to the newest model from the previous iteration — the improvements are typically quite small and may have literally no real world effect on your photography. In general, an every-two-generation strategy makes a lot more sense, and even then you need to look at the products objectively
I agree with you Dan. I normally don't upgrade things every generation, but I *really* wanted a WR X100. I wasn't clamoring for IBIS or a new lens (though it would be cool) or heck even faster autofocus. I was willing to spend twice the price of a used X100F on an X100V if it had WR because it is that important to me. I would otherwise advise buyers looking to upgrade to the "new new" just because it's improved to hold off for another generation. Then again, that could mean/likely means waiting until 2023.
I wanted focus distance in MF rather than focus by wire- so like a Leica Q or a Xpro with 23/1.4 lens. It is looking like this won't have it. I guess you could pull the screen out and shoot looking down, confirming the zone focus on the screen.
So this X100 camera will be $1500, a XPro3 w/23/1.4 lens is $3000.
Used Qs are $2000+ and Q2s are $4000 plus... M240 is under $3k... already have lenses.
So, that puts me into a bit of a holding pattern until the exact details come out...
Back to the Fuji GSW6x9 fantasy too,,,
My X100T works fine- thought it is slow in recording shots. I might wipe it clean and start over on settings to deconflict something I didn't mean to set.
gdanmitchell wrote:
The new camera comes with something that you might regard as a negative — let's say the display system (or removal of OVF magnification scaling) on the XPro3. You decide that you would have been at least as well off with the camera you had, or that perhaps you would have been better off.
Today the increment of improvement from camera model to camera model is much smaller than it was, say ten years ago when the technology was less advanced and was improving in larger increments. Today it is almost never a worthwhile investment to upgrade to the newest model from the previous iteration — the improvements are typically quite small and may have literally no real world effect on your photography. In general, an every-two-generation strategy makes a lot more sense, and even then you need to look at the products objectively
This pretty much sums up why I jumped on the X-H1 sale. Since we had the camera at work, there were certain things I really liked about it. And I worried that those things might change in the new version, whenever that comes out. I'm happy with this camera, and there is really nothing more I need out of it. I wouldn't turn down better battery life, but hey, I have three batteries, so whatever. :-)
OMGOMGOMG a GFX690 would be the greatest camera ever!
anselwannab wrote:
I wanted focus distance in MF rather than focus by wire- so like a Leica Q or a Xpro with 23/1.4 lens. It is looking like this won't have it. I guess you could pull the screen out and shoot looking down, confirming the zone focus on the screen.
So this X100 camera will be $1500, a XPro3 w/23/1.4 lens is $3000.
Used Qs are $2000+ and Q2s are $4000 plus... M240 is under $3k... already have lenses.
So, that puts me into a bit of a holding pattern until the exact details come out...
Back to the Fuji GSW6x9 fantasy too,,,
My X100T works fine- thought it is slow in recording shots. I might wipe it clean and start over on settings to deconflict something I didn't mean to set....Show more →
I genuinely think I won't be buying this body anymore. I might just buy a used X100F for the same price I sold mine for (or less).