p.38 #1 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
I think we are...and I think we'll see more of this type of camera going forward. The pre-historic version of the film based camera is drowning right now...being eclipsed by phones. Something needs to change if cameras are to stay relevant in the next 10 years...and that has nothing to do with more pixels, faster AF or...wait for it...a touch screen.
Obviously you have no clue why phones have destroyed the camera industry if you think the ZX1 is some sort of proper response.
p.38 #2 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
So where do you see the SoCanNikon's of the world move their camera business in the next say 5 years. More of the same and watch as their sales get taken over by the ever improving phones...or do they need to take a technological leap and come out with something that might attract the next generation of photographers. Right now...they are failing as the phones are advancing at an astronomical pace compared to the megapickle race the camera manufactures are in.
I'm not saying the Zeiss camera is the answer...but I'm giving Zeiss credit for the balls to step out of the box and try something...wish the SoCanNikon's of the world had those balls....Show more →
You probably applauded Cadillac when they made the Cimmeron and Pontiac when they made the Aztek. LMAO!
p.38 #5 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
After this expensive joke, will CZ ever produce another camera? B&H (verified buyer) reviews are always good for insight, here are a handful that, taken together, seem to indicate some 'issues'. Imagine what it would have been like two years ago, before they worked out the 'glitches'! Sounds like a 'hot' product though:
'It has shiny and industrial looks while being difficult to operate. Navigating the shooting and playback menus is non intuitive and glitchy. The shiny touchscreen requires a stylus for proper input. The battery life is poor even though it is large. The Lightroom in camera seems to be an ultra light version of the iOS app which requires a monthly $10 Adobe subscription to operate.'
'..its by sheer luck that I can find my way around in the menus at all. If the Zeiss ZX1 is intuitive, then I must be the village idiot..Without the manual, however, the ZX1 is serving me well as a glorified paperweight.'
'The use of the bent screen for navigating key shooting menus, while shooting with your eye to the viewfinder, is horrendous, though. Does not work fluidly at all and I have thin fingers and am pretty young and smartphone-adept. Image quality is OK but unremarkable.'
'Same with autofocus but the lack of face/eye detect, in what seems to be primarily a camera with which to photograph people, is an incredible omission. The EVF exhibits odd banding artifacts at all ISOs in low light. It's very annoying..'
'When run in photo mode for about 20 minutes, the camera gets almost too hot to hold on the left side, if you're holding it with two hands. Navigating the Android menus and editing in camera are just as frustrating as trying to manipulate shooting menus..I'm rather shocked this camera was released, although perhaps attempting to work out these kinks is what delayed it two years. Very sadly, this camera is made in China.'
'Cons: 1. Battery gets hot too quickly 2. Battery gets drained quickly when using built in Lightroom 3. No external charger, you have to charge with the battery in the camera..'
p.38 #6 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
rattymouse wrote:
Canon is issued more patents in the camera industry than anyone, by far. Yet you think Zeiss has the answer. Laughable.
And what has Canon developed in the last 5 years...a partial equivalent in mirrorless of the DSLR lineup...as their sales drop lower every quarter. Keep on churning out those patents...much easier than products.
p.38 #7 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
rattymouse wrote:
Canon is issued more patents in the camera industry than anyone, by far. Yet you think Zeiss has the answer. Laughable.
Number of patents filed/granted being indicative of innovation is also just not right, otherwise IBM would be dominating the world given the sheet amount of patents they file - yet they're far past their zenith.
I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung files more camera related patents than socanikon combined.
p.38 #8 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
philip_pj wrote:
After this expensive joke, will CZ ever produce another camera? B&H (verified buyer) reviews are always good for insight, here are a handful that, taken together, seem to indicate some 'issues'. Imagine what it would have been like two years ago, before they worked out the 'glitches'! Sounds like a 'hot' product though:
'It has shiny and industrial looks while being difficult to operate. Navigating the shooting and playback menus is non intuitive and glitchy. The shiny touchscreen requires a stylus for proper input. The battery life is poor even though it is large. The Lightroom in camera seems to be an ultra light version of the iOS app which requires a monthly $10 Adobe subscription to operate.'
'..its by sheer luck that I can find my way around in the menus at all. If the Zeiss ZX1 is intuitive, then I must be the village idiot..Without the manual, however, the ZX1 is serving me well as a glorified paperweight.'
'The use of the bent screen for navigating key shooting menus, while shooting with your eye to the viewfinder, is horrendous, though. Does not work fluidly at all and I have thin fingers and am pretty young and smartphone-adept. Image quality is OK but unremarkable.'
'Same with autofocus but the lack of face/eye detect, in what seems to be primarily a camera with which to photograph people, is an incredible omission. The EVF exhibits odd banding artifacts at all ISOs in low light. It's very annoying..'
'When run in photo mode for about 20 minutes, the camera gets almost too hot to hold on the left side, if you're holding it with two hands. Navigating the Android menus and editing in camera are just as frustrating as trying to manipulate shooting menus..I'm rather shocked this camera was released, although perhaps attempting to work out these kinks is what delayed it two years. Very sadly, this camera is made in China.'
'Cons: 1. Battery gets hot too quickly 2. Battery gets drained quickly when using built in Lightroom 3. No external charger, you have to charge with the battery in the camera..'
p.38 #9 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
So where do you see the SoCanNikon's of the world move their camera business in the next say 5 years. More of the same and watch as their sales get taken over by the ever improving phones...or do they need to take a technological leap and come out with something that might attract the next generation of photographers. Right now...they are failing as the phones are advancing at an astronomical pace compared to the megapickle race the camera manufactures are in.
I'm not saying the Zeiss camera is the answer...but I'm giving Zeiss credit for the balls to step out of the box and try something...wish the SoCanNikon's of the world had those balls....Show more →
"I'm not saying the Zeiss camera is the answer...but I'm giving Zeiss credit for the balls to step out of the box and try something...wish the SoCanNikon's of the world had those balls."
I guess I don't give credit for being completely incompetent. I see nothing in that camera that pushes the envelope so I'm not sure what exactly your giving them credit for? They made a "compact" camera that is not compact, and has 3-5 year old tech in it. Then they installed lightroom (oooooooh) so you can edit your images on a 4 inch screen (which can't even tilt) and is not even color accurate. Brilliant! How do the images get sent off to everyone you ask? Buy using your phone. Guess what I have been able to do all that on my phone for awhile. It was a bad marketing gimmick that blew up in their face. The only credit I'll give them is they spent a ton of money on a DOA product and released it anyways after 2 years of stalling. That took balls!
p.38 #10 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Unfortunately it's not 'no fuss'...indeed it puts more steps in the way than my current workflow. Don't understand how that helps? I can already touch my phone to my camera and transfer the image to far more capable device in 10 seconds. If only Sony would let me get the RAW to my phone. I have zero urge to do anything on the camera, it's an inferior device for it, full stop.
This camera is generally a solution in search of a problem.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
Touch screens have been a part of camera user interface for quite some years now (5+). Integration of the most commonly used image manager and editing tool right on the camera itself is, however, new. Think about it: being able to make edits anywhere and the images appearing immediately on all devices that you might want to use for editing. Same controls and same images on the camera itself, on your mobile devices and desktop/laptop computers. No fuss, as soon as the shots are taken, they can be displayed and edited on any of your devices using similar tools. This is how it should be; Zeiss should be commended for taking steps towards this direction even if the first version has glitches....Show more →
p.38 #11 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
Unfortunately it's not 'no fuss'...indeed it puts more steps in the way than my current workflow. Don't understand how that helps? I can already touch my phone to my camera and transfer the image to far more capable device in 10 seconds. If only Sony would let me get the RAW to my phone. I have zero urge to do anything on the camera, it's an inferior device for it, full stop.
This camera is generally a solution in search of a problem.
What extra steps would the ZX1 introduce in your workflow?
My cameras do allow raw files to be transferred to mobile devices but at least my 2020 iPhone SE displays the raw files as gray boxes so the support is there only through third-party application software ... like Lightroom. Downloading the raws from camera via wifi takes a good while and then uploading to LR takes another good while; this is not a fast process like it is when working with a modern computer with either cabled transfer or memory card reader. In addition the files would end up stored in the mobile device and its cloud, which is awkward without proper support that would display what the image contents are.
I think if working with mobile phone, it is more practical to edit the raw in camera to jpg and then send that file wirelessly to mobile device ... voila, the iOS camera roll can actually display the images and the transfer times are shorter than with raw files. What the ZX1 proposes is that the images can be edited using more sophisticated tools right in camera and uploaded to Adobe's cloud where they can be accessed by any device running the cloud-based LR. I understand the upload would still take time if working wirelessly, but edits made in the camera would be visible on mobile devices and so you can make quick edits in camera, and if necessary, make refinements using larger screens later, and the edits would all be synchronized across devices.
But you must be thinking about a different workflow since I don't see where the "extra steps" would be introduced.
Personally the main glitch I see is the long startup time which is comparable to other Android devices vs. we are used to almost instant startup time in our cameras.
I don't currently use the mobile version of LR as I am used to the desktop applications and the interface between desktop and cloud-based software isn't working the way I would like it to, but I see clear advantages in the cloud model when properly implemented. I would like to see Adobe let users choose which cloud to use for the actual storage of the images so that users have full control of their image files. I would also like Adobe to recognize that not everyone is going to go with a single catalog of images (right now syncing between cloud and desktop is only possible for one desktop catalog of images). Let's say they have one million images, are they really going to be using a single catalog?
Still, I see a situation where a group of people would be working on a project and the camera operator is shooting, the images show up on mobile screen of the stylist or art director or client and they can immediately see the images, make notes or their own versions of the images before the shooting session ends. A collaborative workflow which doesn't even require everyone to be present in the same room. There is no need for the mobile devices to host the raw images themselves as they can be in the cloud and jpgs and instructions can move between the server and user devices. Now, the implementation may not be quite there yet for a practical workflow but in my opinion, it is the right direction.
p.38 #12 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
The phone is not needed to transfer the images to the cloud if you are in an environment with wifi access to the internet. And if you are not in a wifi environment then you can use the phone mobile phone to create a wifi hotspot that allows you this access. You don't need to switch between the camera and mobile device when shooting to get the images in the cloud. And once in the cloud, devices can access and edit the images without being burdened by transfer of raw files (after the initial upload which should happen in the background if I am not mistaken).
p.38 #13 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
chez wrote:
And what has Canon developed in the last 5 years...a partial equivalent in mirrorless of the DSLR lineup...as their sales drop lower every quarter. Keep on churning out those patents...much easier than products.
p.38 #14 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
Dave Sanders wrote:
Unfortunately it's not 'no fuss'...indeed it puts more steps in the way than my current workflow. Don't understand how that helps? I can already touch my phone to my camera and transfer the image to far more capable device in 10 seconds. If only Sony would let me get the RAW to my phone. I have zero urge to do anything on the camera, it's an inferior device for it, full stop.
This camera is generally a solution in search of a problem.
Dave, no mobile phone required.
"SHARE: when the networked full-frame camera is connected, the user can upload selected images directly to the internet – without the intermediate transfer to memory cards or other external devices. 512 GB of internal memory provide sufficient space for approximately 6,800 RAW files (DNG) or over 50,000 JPGs – more than enough to handle photos, even during a longer trip, and giving the photographer the chance to let their creativity flow. Versatile connectivity options such as Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and USB-C ensure that various peripherals can be connected. Over-the-air software updates keep the camera up to date without requiring a computer connection." https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/int/home/content/newsroom/news-overview/2018/zeiss-zx1.html
As I presented in another thread, I showed how I can transfer RAW files from the Sony A7rIV through Wifi and FTP to my mobile devices and/or server. But it's not an easy setup. Sony does not yet optimize for RAW transfer wirelessly. I don't think most even know about the RAW Sony WIFI work-around transfer capabilities I posted. Even so, Sony RAW transfer can be very slow for the large A7rIV RAW files. But again, very fast for JPEGs transfer. Or as others commented on the thread I posted, "just use your SD card as we always have." Can you imagine telling a mobile phone photographer they need to pull out their SD card and connect to their computer to transfer their files to social media .
p.38 #15 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
I know some on this thread are projecting their own personal photography muscle-memory and style/experience on to the ZX1 and can't see the forrest for the trees how helpful the ZX1 concept can be for people like me that use a very similar wireless transfer process regularly (my own projection). Normal human behavior.
But like everyone else ( except some Canon cameras) I have to include multiple devices to move edited/unedited files from camera to the Cloud/Social Media. Or just wait until I get back to my workstation. Cost wise, that's camera cost + lens + fast accessories + mobile device(s)+ time to get to a place where I can setup and get the process going or for me, it used to be wait until I get to my workstation...now iOS, iPadOS and Adobe have made this process a lot easier and efficient from just two years ago, but there is still fiddling with multiple and expensive devices and setup menus just to connect via available Wifi or Hotspot if no Wifi is available. And again, most will say just pull out your SD card! But at the same time completely ignore they are already doing the same ZX1 transfer/editing/posting concept with their mobile phones.
I have shot sports events with FTP from the Sony A9 camera through Mobile phone hotspot to Google GCP/FTP server to a special website for customer select and download while the event was ongoing and for a period after the event. I have experience with what it takes to setup, operate and pay for, what the ZX1 concept promises with non ZX1 current technology. I completely get the value of the ZX1 concept. Always have.
Interestingly enough, Zeiss targets the ZX1 to enthusiasts. However, $6000 price tag probably eliminates some 90% or more of most enthusiasts IMO, but again not uncommon for newly released concept products that are not necessarily looking to sell a lot of product until both demand and supply mature a bit. The other Camera manufacturers price relatively low because they have to move large volumes of product very quickly to sustain their business models even with all their own operational glitches that ship with their new products ( the list of newly released issues is long for years now BTW)
No, I don't plan to pay $6000 for the ZX1. But I am very happy Zeiss is at a minimum sending a very loud message to the other big guys who are inching their way to similar capabilities for some years now.
p.38 #16 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
LBJ2 wrote:
I know some on this thread are projecting their own personal photography muscle-memory and style/experience on to the ZX1 and can't see the forrest for the trees how helpful the ZX1 concept can be for people like me that use a very similar wireless transfer process regularly (my own projection). Normal human behavior.
But like everyone else ( except some Canon cameras) I have to include multiple devices to move edited/unedited files from camera to the Cloud/Social Media. Or just wait until I get back to my workstation. Cost wise, that's camera cost + lens + fast accessories + mobile device(s)+ time to get to a place where I can setup and get the process going or for me, it used to be wait until I get to my workstation...now iOS, iPadOS and Adobe have made this process a lot easier and efficient from just two years ago, but there is still fiddling with multiple and expensive devices and setup menus just to connect via available Wifi or Hotspot if no Wifi is available. And again, most will say just pull out your SD card! But at the same time completely ignore they are already doing the same ZX1 transfer/editing/posting concept with their mobile phones.
I have shot sports events with FTP from the Sony A9 camera through Mobile phone hotspot to Google GCP/FTP server to a special website for customer select and download while the event was ongoing and for a period after the event. I have experience with what it takes to setup, operate and pay for, what the ZX1 concept promises with non ZX1 current technology. I completely get the value of the ZX1 concept. Always have.
Interestingly enough, Zeiss targets the ZX1 to enthusiasts. However, $6000 price tag probably eliminates some 90% or more of most enthusiasts IMO, but again not uncommon for newly released concept products that are not necessarily looking to sell a lot of product until both demand and supply mature a bit. The other Camera manufacturers price relatively low because they have to move large volumes of product very quickly to sustain their business models even with all their own operational glitches that ship with their new products ( the list of newly released issues is long for years now BTW)
No, I don't plan to pay $6000 for the ZX1. But I am very happy Zeiss is at a minimum sending a very loud message to the other big guys who are inching their way to similar capabilities for some years now....Show more →
Your comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about a fixed lens camera that has no use in sports and in your own words is focused toward enthusiasts not professionals. If this was an interchangable lens camera that was the first in a new Eco system it would be a completely different conversation. I could cut them some slack. But it's not.
p.38 #17 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Your comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about a fixed lens camera that has no use in sports and in your own words is focused toward enthusiasts not professionals. If this was an interchangable lens camera that was the first in a new Eco system it would be a completely different conversation. I could cut them some slack. But it's not.
Fair complaint. I was attempting to describe how the ZX1 concept and workflow "shoot, edit, share" would benefit my workflow. I just happened to use a sports scenario. FWIW, I've set up the vary same workflow for indoor events where a fixed lens 35mm ZX1 might be more practical but I use zoom lenses for this type of work and to your point, probably wouldn't use a fixed lens camera.
P.S. I am sure billion Euro Zeiss would be very happy to read a scenario where you would "cut them some slack"
p.38 #18 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
I applaud Zeiss for taking the "Steve Jobs" approach to creating a product with a simple form-factor and integrated technology to create highly capable camera features not found elsewhere.
Steve Jobs, however, would reject 9 out of 10 ideas from his engineers due to perceived lack of end-user utility or lack of visually pleasing aesthetics. Attention to every single user-experience detail was paramount.
In my opinion, the whole ZX1 concept was born of paradoxes. Integrated processing would seemingly mostly appeal to the younger crowd who have demonstrated that their acceptable price-point is less than $1,500. The camera is meant for heavy portrait use, but lacks face/eye detection (in 2020!). In-camera LR processing drains batteries fast, but only in-camera charging is offered. I could go on, just based on camera reviewers' testimony.
Before retiring, I spent most of my career managing electronic product development and manufacturing. Based upon my experience, this concept would have probably never made it past the specification/mockup stage. If it did, the prototype would have assuredly never made it past the various focus-group panels. With a $6,000 price-point, it baffles me how this camera made it to the production phase.
Perhaps, some of the positive aspects of this pioneering camera will be picked-up by real camera manufacturers in the future.
As an old Leica guy from the 60's, I must say that simplicity is appealing, and the ZX1 concept is making the Leica Q2 look even better, to me.
p.38 #19 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
InFocus2014 wrote:
In my opinion, the whole ZX1 concept was born of paradoxes. Integrated processing would seemingly mostly appeal to the younger crowd who have demonstrated that their acceptable price-point is less than $1,500. The camera is meant for heavy portrait use, but lacks face/eye detection (in 2020!). In-camera LR processing drains batteries fast, but only in-camera charging is offered. I could go on, just based on camera reviewers' testimony.
Great description of the "paradoxes" of this camera. Some very valid-sounding critiques.
I'm not going to defend lack of face/eye detection per se, but I just wonder if the weak AF options stems from Zeiss as primarily selling MF lenses. I'd be curious what the MF experience on the ZX1 is like.
I would think that the natural base of buyers for Leica / Zeiss is actually not the younger crowd but rather is affluent middle agers who already own expensive MF Zeiss lenses. Yes, younger folks are more tech savvy, but there are plenty of middle age folks who are smartphone savvy (since it's our generation that invented the Internet after all and not Al Gore). I would think Leica / Zeiss would never target young people. Young folks are never going to be Leica / Zeiss buyers just because they still have roommates and are paying off college loans. Leica / Zeiss customers are probably going to be people who are closer to the peak of their earning power.
p.38 #20 · In-Stock: 37MP Zeiss ZX1 full frame camera
My guess is Steve Jobs and many other similar notables would have shut down this one too: " ...at the 1925 Leipzig Spring Fair in Germany, a camera was launched that was destined to change the face of photography. This was a time when it was still common for glass plates to be used in cameras, and those that took roll film were thought of as miniatures. So imagine the culture shock when a still photography camera was produced to take 35mm movie film." https://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-i-camera-change-photography
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