I spent alot of time comparing M-P 240 & M-246 images taken side by side. The M-246 had a slight resolution advantage - namely where the M-P had false color artifacts. In those areas the M-246 didn't have any color extrapolation issues to deal with, thus a bit result resolution shown.
If shooting without color filters, the M-P could sort of match the M-246's "look". It took some color channel manipulation with the M-P to make the match, and that can add noise because channels are effectively being boosted or reduced. If using color filters, like orange and red, the M-P cannot come close to replicating the M-246 result.
I bought the M-246 about a year ago on a whim and it turned out to be the coolest digital camera I've owned. The M-10 looks nice and I hope to get one soon, but it's the monochrome version of the M-10 that I'm really excited about. Hopefully Leica will release it sooner than later.
uhoh7 wrote:
I don't pay that close attention, because there is alot of latitude processing from color sensor. For sharpness/rez, I can't see how the M10 will beat MM, and I know it will not beat M246. Even those cameras images end up being heavily processed, by some. I've read some interesting posts on the issue. Love hear some MM and 246 users chime in here about how often they keep their images OOC, and what are common changes they are making. I still love M8 BW.
...
I hardly ever keep my images OOC with the MM-246 (or any other camera for that matter), not because there is something specially bad with them but it's just that if I process them myself it is my processing and not Leica's (or any other manufacturer's) processing.
As far as what I do it is often pretty straightforward with the MM-images, correction of exposure, highlights and shadows if needed and then I apply a tone curve followed often by a little dodge and burn. In general I don't spend many minutes on processing an image.
And an image of course, "Thin DoF" with the MM-246 and Minolta-Rokkor 58/1.2
I expose for the way I'm going to process. I think it is all part of the larger whole. Kind of the same way I approached film. This can along with the way someone composes their images and they way they print, can help determine a style or look. SOOC means nothing to me. So what. What matters is the final print. What each individual can do to make his final image look like the way he saw and interprets the scene.
I'll echo the same sentiments of both Joakim and Allan regarding processing of the 246 files. SOOC, the 246 files are a bit flat (without any color filters). I rarely shoot jpg in any camera I own that has raw as an option. As far as adding clarity to the 246 files, I usually add around 16-26 depending on the image. If a portrait, I likely won't touch the slider at all. The malleability of the files allow for great latitude in post processing.
When I use orange or red color filters, I find that I fiddle with the files much less except for basic exposure, highlights, shadows, etc. This is especially true with red filters on bright sunny days with vivid dark blue skies.
John Black wrote:
I bought the M-246 about a year ago on a whim and it turned out to be the coolest digital camera I've owned. The M-10 looks nice and I hope to get one soon, but it's the monochrome version of the M-10 that I'm really excited about. Hopefully Leica will release it sooner than later.
One last question. I feel the “no comment” coming, but here goes. Obviously the Monochrom 246 has been a huge hit. Everyone loves it. Any future consideration for making a Monochrom version of the M10?
Stefan: *laughs* Of course, yes, consideration. The point is, as we had for the M9 and the M Monochrom first version, which was sold in parallel to the M240 for a long time, this will be quite similar here. So, the M Monochrom second generation will be there for a while alongside the M10.
---------------------------------------------
Alpha_Geist wrote:
When I use orange or red color filters, I find that I fiddle with the files much less except for basic exposure, highlights, shadows, etc. This is especially true with red filters on bright sunny days with vivid dark blue skies.
I used to shoot a lot of B&W with orange and red filters. I resist shooting film again in part because I don't want to get sucked back into the film and print processing time sink (I'm already far enough behind on my digital processing). But at times I am sentimental for it. Your statement above seems as good as any reason/excuse to scratch that itch with a Monochrom....
"So, the M Monochrom second generation will be there for a while alongside the M10."
I guess it could depend on what 'for a while' means. Cycles are getting longer so maybe this time next year, when I would expect it before the end of the year. Mayeb depends on M10 sales strength?
I have to think that there is one in the works. That body form screams for it.
Considering the sensors are quite different (246 and m10), perhaps the new m10 monochrom will retain the same 246 sensor, but in a m10 package? Possibly, but I'm curious as to what further improvements to the monochrom sensor could be made aside from a resolution increase. I'm guessing the m10 monochrom (M10M) will have more megapixels vs the 24 from the current 246 and m10 models. If the M10M is released a few years after the introduction of the m10, then I can't see Leica running with 24mp in their newest monochrom successor. But this is all speculation.
They did for their color sensor? I think it is more the form factor than anything. The more traditional body size and being monochrome. More MPs? I guess. Maybe, but you already have a resolution advantage over the color cameras and I didn't see much teeth gnashing over the MPs being 24 still.
Alpha_Geist wrote:
Considering the sensors are quite different (246 and m10), perhaps the new m10 monochrom will retain the same 246 sensor, but in a m10 package? Possibly, but I'm curious as to what further improvements to the monochrom sensor could be made aside from a resolution increase. I'm guessing the m10 monochrom (M10M) will have more megapixels vs the 24 from the current 246 and m10 models. If the M10M is released a few years after the introduction of the m10, then I can't see Leica running with 24mp in their newest monochrom successor. But this is all speculation.
I doubt it. IMO the Monochrom is a strategic way for Leica to generate additional sales of an existing model. They'll wait a bit for M10 sales to level off before introducing the M10M. And the current M246 is a way for them to use remaining M240 inventory (though they will also keep the M240 available for some time, as they did with the M-E variant of the M9). Based on the various interviews and information about the M10's internals, I doubt they would retain the M246 sensor in an M10M since the physical sensor package is probably different to accommodate the reduced space inside the M10 vs. M240. It would also be highly unusual for them to have a sensor custom manufactured for the Monochrom (other than the omission of CFA and requisite software tweaks), such as one with a different pixel count.
Well, with Leica, never say never. But I wouldn't bet on it.
rscheffler wrote:
I doubt it. IMO the Monochrom is a strategic way for Leica to generate additional sales of an existing model. They'll wait a bit for M10 sales to level off before introducing the M10M. And the current M246 is a way for them to use remaining M240 inventory (though they will also keep the M240 available for some time, as they did with the M-E variant of the M9). Based on the various interviews and information about the M10's internals, I doubt they would retain the M246 sensor in an M10M since the physical sensor package is probably different to accommodate the reduced space inside the M10 vs. M240. It would also be highly unusual for them to have a sensor custom manufactured for the Monochrom (other than the omission of CFA and requisite software tweaks), such as one with a different pixel count.
Well, with Leica, never say never. But I wouldn't bet on it....Show more →
I agree with you Ron. We likely won't see the M10M, or whatever it's called, until some time after the M10 has permeated the Leica user base. I think it is safe to assume that it will be in the same form factor as the M10, but how much different will the M10M sensor be from the current 246 sensor is what is fun to speculate about. I hope Leica doesn't get too lazy with the M10M sensor and update only the resolution. Other than some minor banding in the shadows (caused by under exposure), I don't know how else they would mprove the sensor since the 246 is really fantastic. Could Leica use a modified M10 sensor stripped of the CFA? Possibly, but by then I would expect a resolution bump over 24 mp at least. Either way, I'm more than satisfied with the 24mp 246 sensor. I'm not printing murals nor do I crop much, if at all. The M10 form factor, viewfinder and all the other refinements which makes the M10 the closest to the digital "film" rangerfinder will no doubtedly make the M10M a hit, regardless of what sensor they decide to stuff in it
I just took an extended look and trial of the M10 at the Leica boutique, and confess that I don't understand the appeal of this camera to an M240 user. There are certainly image quality improvements with respect to high ISO performance, but in most other areas the updates are incremental, non-existent, or actually detrimental.
First - Why is this camera so slow to start up? My 1D Mark II from 2003 had instant startup, and I haven't had a camera with as slow a wake-up time as my M240 since my Canon EOS 10D from 2002. This is a problem that has actually cost me images, and it is very frustrating that Leica has not resolved it when many of their competitors did over 15 years ago! Come on! 4 generations of digital M and we still have to wait more than a fraction of a second for the camera to wake up from sleep? Ridiculous - this is a reportage camera. It should be instantly responsive to the needs of shooters.
Second - The ergonomics are modestly improved, and yes the camera is a little thinner (though not much lighter) than the M240. WiFi is also nice, as is the larger screen. The software and electronics feel modestly more responsive, but none of the image review UI feels groundbreaking or even very much faster than my D800 from 2012, or my D3x from 2010.
Third - The implementation of the ISO dial is less than ideal, with its somewhat awkward pull-up-and-rotate operation. Might get better with extended use, but I'm not loving it.
Fourth - I don't see the point of getting rid of the movie mode, aside from some misguided need to satisfy purists who apparently can't ignore the existence of a single, ignorable button. While I never thought of the M240 as a "video camera," I have recorded a number of priceless family documentary videos with it because, (as my favorite "real" camera), the M240 just happened to be the camera I had when the moment happened. And while the video quality on the M240 isn't terrific, it's more than usable for occasional family documentation, and so unobtrusively implemented that a "purist" could easily ignore it. Removing this feature from the M10 is not a "feature." And if the reason for doing it was to make this camera a few millimeters thinner, I don't think it was worth it. I prefer the allegedly "whale-like" dimensions of the M240 with the video onboard, than a barely smaller (or less expensive) M10 lacking it. After all, the M240 is still much smaller than any of my Nikon bodies, and barely any larger than its M10 successor.
Fifth - Why does this thing still have the braindead ergonomics of a screw-off baseplate to reach the battery and SD card? Isn't there a better way?
I am definitely guilty of usually raising my eyebrows when I see Leica cameras on paper, but being subtly seduced by them after using them in person. That's certainly what happened to me with the M240 (which I bought), the Q (which I almost bought), and the SL (which I still may buy on the used market). But the new M10 didn't really impress me at all. I suppose that's a good thing - it means that my M240 will continue to acquire some sexy Lenny Kravitz-style brassing as I shoot for another 4-5 years, while my bank accounts remain untouched by GAS (which is pretty damaging to bank accounts when Leica is your preferred poison).
