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Archive 2017 · Leica 'M10"

  
 
droaingsong
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p.23 #1 · Leica 'M10"


uhoh7 wrote:
Here is Sonnar 50/1.5 for sure, had has same profile

So likely Derek is right.


Yup, Derek is right here



Feb 03, 2017 at 08:17 AM
adamdewilde
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p.23 #2 · Leica 'M10"


flash wrote:
Thumbs Up and the Thumbie are quite different. The Thumbie, which I've used since the M9, doesn't use the hotshoe. I use the hotshoe regularly for an EVF or small flash. A Thumbs Up is useless to me.

Gordon


Oh right... You got the one that is a sticker right? That's kinda cool.. Does it stay on well? Is it stiff or does it have play?



Feb 03, 2017 at 01:48 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.23 #3 · Leica 'M10"


davewolfs wrote:
Is the SL still on the radar?



Hi David,

I liked the M10 so much, I am not really considering the SL anymore. The viewfinder of the SL would be nice, but I think I will like having a rangefinder OVF and the attachable EVF better, and the size, sensor (probably) and the optimization for my lenses (I have 6 M lenses) all favor the M10.



Feb 03, 2017 at 01:55 PM
flash
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p.23 #4 · Leica 'M10"


adamdewilde wrote:
Oh right... You got the one that is a sticker right? That's kinda cool.. Does it stay on well? Is it stiff or does it have play?


It's held on with 3M tape. I had two M9's and two type 240's with Thumbies. Never had one come off or come loose. There is no play. Easy to remove deliberately and he gives you a spare pre cut tape piece. I only ever removed one when sending an M9 in for repair.

Gordon




Feb 03, 2017 at 02:41 PM
uhoh7
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p.23 #5 · Leica 'M10"


Mitch Alland wrote:
Charlie - That is certainly true, always, in your masterful use of M9 colors.

The impression I have of the M10 is that operationally it’s night and day from the M9, and feels like the Leica M that we all wanted when the M8 was released. From a friend that has had one for a week, I get the impression that with a few adjustments in Lightroom one can get pretty close to the M9 look — though he thinks that there is still something inexplicably special about that look. He feels that, compared to the M9, the M10
...Show more

I'm going to get a big head, Mitch to hear that coming from you

Derek will keep me in line

You comments and report from your friend is so interesting. They are plagiarizing my baby

Colors are tricky, and sometimes the light is right to catch a nice flavor. A tan is quite problematic. But I try to let the camera do it's best, and then see what small touches help...but it's always dicey



L1056957-2 by unoh7, on Flickr


L1056959-2 by unoh7, on Flickr


L1056961-3 by unoh7, on Flickr

Walter Mandler was a real genius, as I only gradually realize. There is his "baby", the somewhat unsung Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 "Thin", which I spent untold hours trying to replace. Jeez, look at that little thing at F/2.8. What was I thinking?

One secret, which I learned accidentally, like most of my discoveries, is it LOVES this hood:

Cuties by unoh7, on Flickr

I bought that to go on a 135/4. The famous Tele-Elmar. Thank god KEH kept sending me ones with problems. So heavy, yikes. I got the APO, which is lighter. Anyway I'd bought this pricey old, but perfect, metal hood, which goes on a bunch of lenses. 12575. Rockwell never noticed but the TE flares at dawn WO even when it's still in the closet

That hood reverses perfectly, and it's tough too. I meant to sell both the lens and the hood years ago. Now I love them

Anyway, my point: the reds. Obviously they studied the M9 reds, which can be pretty hot, for M10. In LR with M9 raw it's better to bring blacks down from a little overexposure, than to boost whites, because LR sends reds right over the edge at +5. And M10 reds are often REALLY close to M9. But M9 is sort of selective in it's saturation. M10 less so.

CMOS = Colors Mucho Over Saturated
CCD = Colors Clear Duh

Of course, it's not quite so simple, since Karbe's lenses have brighter richer colors than Mandlers. Note the shot of the A7 w/ TE. That's 50 cron v4 tabbed, 80's on M9. So faithful there. Oranges and Yellows, the M9 pretty much nails, especially on those Mandler lenses. Reds and Pinks....watch out. Portrait series above, shot today, is M9 saturation. Nothing added. Blacks down a bit and no boost in whites. TE is low contrast WO. Still red is Hot, not WB, but saturation. Reds and Pinks combust when you press the shutter.

20 years form now that camera will be more famous, you watch. Let's see if M10 can wax so lyric. In music, it's often the spaces between the notes which mark genius. M10 does have more notes.....

But pretty soon Edward will show us the M10 as it should be



Feb 03, 2017 at 09:50 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.23 #6 · Leica 'M10"


Charlie - Absolutely, the color rendition of the M9 has that umami that's undefinable, though some call it CCD. Maybe the M10 will fall somewhat short of that, but it looks like I can now easily sell my M9-P and MM in Bangkok for good prices, and expect to have an M10 from a store in Paris when I'm there in a few weeks, although they say they still don't know the rate of deliveries they'll get from Wetzlar. I figure that whenever I miss the M9 umami, I can always shoot Portra 400...

_______________
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

Edited on Feb 04, 2017 at 05:38 AM · View previous versions



Feb 03, 2017 at 11:42 PM
uhoh7
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p.23 #7 · Leica 'M10"


Mitch Alland wrote:
Charlie - Absolutely, the color rendition of the M9 has that umami that's undefinable, though some call it CCD. Maybe the M10 will fall somewhat short of that, but it looks like I can now easily sell my M9-P and MM in Bangkok for good prices, and expect to have an M10 from a store in Paris when I'm there in a few weeks, although they say they still don't know the rate of deliveries they'll get from Wetzar. I figure that whenever I miss the M9 umami, I can always shoot Portra 400...

_______________
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN
...Show more

Awesome, Mitch

I can't wait to see your work with M10.

I don't really know if M9 is unique. I know I see lots of great work with the 240 and variants.. I would not hesitate to shoot one. I'd love a M10, and it would be useful.

There was a long thread, where everybody was supposed to pick M9 from 240 and many failed. But of course both were edited. Edward and Allen know M9 and like 240 fine, and their files look great.

On the other hand the M9 looks so good Leica felt they had to copy it

For me I'm not often wishing for extra features. It's tough and lightest M.


L1056879 by unoh7,M9 CV 35/1.2 WO ISO 800

Ok maybe that puppy could be cuter. Seems good enough for her, though

M10 could do this cleaner with FLE and a nicer set of colors (this lens has weird ones). That would be pretty nice. That is what would be tangible for me. I'll hang in there and watch you guys for now.


Feb 04, 2017 at 12:43 AM
rscheffler
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p.23 #8 · Leica 'M10"


M10 with 35 FLE is Leica's version of Canon 5DIV with the super new EF35/1.4L II, or whatever brand Sony sensor camera with an Otus lens, Sigma Art, or similar... (just referring to imaging characteristics)

As the lenses get sharper and the sensor tech improves, everything is moving to the same vanishing point, in respect to general image quality. At least for me, it means non-imaging features become more relevant in my decision-making about the gear I want to use for what I photograph.

TBH, a lot of times the modern image quality direction is what I want. But at least with Leica there are options such as using Mandler lenses, or an original Sonnar 50/1.5, or Sonnar clone, Canon LTM, and so on, with 'native' (RF) functionality.

Sure, imaging-wise you can *technically* do similar with a Sony a7x... but the ergonomics and other factors do not endear me to that solution...

I guess what I'm getting at is that the more imperfect M9 injects something into images the way maybe a Mandler lens does and the most modern tech doesn't. In a lot of applications it's technically not as good, but given individual preferences, it might be what the photographer wants.

Charlie, I think pretty much every Leica 90 has a weakness for flare. From the 90AA right on down the line. I recently picked up the 90ME and find the 12575 hood is absolutely necessary. I'm tempted to try one of the 90 Elmarit flavors and thinking maybe older will be more interesting to better differentiate from the 90AA and ME.



Feb 04, 2017 at 10:55 AM
james3shin
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p.23 #9 · Leica 'M10"


The M10 sounds like a fantastic camera, that tries to be transparent, and allows the photographer to focus on the subject - sounds awesome. I would to like ask the experienced Leica users for a recommendation:

Should I start my rangefinder experience with an M10 or a used M262?

In a perfect world, I would go for the M10, but the 2x price difference is making me reconsider. Any input is greatly appreciated.



Feb 04, 2017 at 12:10 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.23 #10 · Leica 'M10"


I have an M 262 which I really like an M-E which I also really like but my fav is my MM.

I might pick up a used 262 next year or so and i was going to sell my M-E but I don't know. I really like the M-E. I would say pick up a 262 if you can. You can always sell it and pick up an M 10 at some point.



Feb 04, 2017 at 12:15 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.23 #11 · Leica 'M10"




james3shin wrote:
The M10 sounds like a fantastic camera, that tries to be transparent, and allows the photographer to focus on the subject - sounds awesome. I would to like ask the experienced Leica users for a recommendation:

Should I start my rangefinder experience with an M10 or a used M262?

In a perfect world, I would go for the M10, but the 2x price difference is making me reconsider. Any input is greatly appreciated.


I would recommend the M262. It's very basic with no LV and video, but has a very capable sensor and the upgraded viewfinder of the M240. With the M262 you can focus on learning rangefinder shooting without being distracted by LV. I've had mine for 6 months and prefer it to the heavier M240. The M10 at this point is still not widely available and probably has a few bugs to fix.



Feb 04, 2017 at 12:20 PM
james3shin
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p.23 #12 · Leica 'M10"


Oh man, I got responses from both, frog and ed, I love your pictures.


Feb 04, 2017 at 12:22 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.23 #13 · Leica 'M10"




james3shin wrote:
Oh man, I got responses from both, frog and ed, I love your pictures.

Thank you for the kind words James



Feb 04, 2017 at 01:01 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.23 #14 · Leica 'M10"


edwardkaraa wrote:
Thank you for the kind words James


I echo that.



Feb 04, 2017 at 01:10 PM
rscheffler
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p.23 #15 · Leica 'M10"


james3shin wrote:
The M10 sounds like a fantastic camera, that tries to be transparent, and allows the photographer to focus on the subject - sounds awesome. I would to like ask the experienced Leica users for a recommendation:

Should I start my rangefinder experience with an M10 or a used M262?

In a perfect world, I would go for the M10, but the 2x price difference is making me reconsider. Any input is greatly appreciated.


I would go for any flavor of the M240 that fits your budget. Functionality-wise M240 vs. M10 should be pretty similar, just the M10 is more refined. As suggested, you can always move to an M10 later by which time you may be able to save some money buying used or refurb/demo. My guess is the difference between the two will not be substantial in day to day use. You will also need a lens or two. Don't overlook the Zeiss ZM line for consideration as you'll get very competitive performance to Leica glass at considerably less cost. Similar can be said about Voigtlander, though I would be more picky about which of those I chose.



Feb 04, 2017 at 01:19 PM
james3shin
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p.23 #16 · Leica 'M10"


rscheffler wrote:
I would go for any flavor of the M240 that fits your budget. Functionality-wise M240 vs. M10 should be pretty similar, just the M10 is more refined. As suggested, you can always move to an M10 later by which time you may be able to save some money buying used or refurb/demo. My guess is the difference between the two will not be substantial in day to day use. You will also need a lens or two. Don't overlook the Zeiss ZM line for consideration as you'll get very competitive performance to Leica glass at considerably less cost. Similar can
...Show more

Oh man, the heavy hitters are chiming in. I currently have a 35mm summicron that I've been adapting to Sony bodies with pretty good results. Will certainly love to see this lens on it's native body.

Many thanks to you gents!




Feb 04, 2017 at 02:00 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.23 #17 · Leica 'M10"


You will love it on an M 262 or M 10. I think you will see a difference.


Feb 04, 2017 at 02:06 PM
uhoh7
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p.23 #18 · Leica 'M10"


Now, this looks pretty silly

I will never again consider the ZI finders large or ungainly.


image by unoh7, on Flickr

Elements of taste are partly materials and proportion. And function. This finder is twice as bright as the OVF on the M9.

Just say no to TV.



Feb 04, 2017 at 06:09 PM
anselwannab
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p.23 #19 · Leica 'M10"


Still waiting to see a M10 B&w conversion vs the 246. There isn't the MP bump to help the M10, though for the CLs 40 and probably Zeiss/V glass I'll us, I wonder if I'd get much of a realized resolution bump between an M10 and an 246.


Feb 04, 2017 at 06:36 PM
uhoh7
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p.23 #20 · Leica 'M10"


anselwannab wrote:
Still waiting to see a M10 B&w conversion vs the 246. There isn't the MP bump to help the M10, though for the CLs 40 and probably Zeiss/V glass I'll us, I wonder if I'd get much of a realized resolution bump between an M10 and an 246.


Lots of BW images from M10
Here's one

Ashwin Nocti BW

I swear these guys are adding grain in those two

Here FLE looks cleaner

I don't pay that close attention, because there is alot of latitude processing from color sensor. For sharpness/rez, I can't see how the M10 will beat MM, and I know it will not beat M246. Even those cameras images end up being heavily processed, by some. I've read some interesting posts on the issue. Love hear some MM and 246 users chime in here about how often they keep their images OOC, and what are common changes they are making. I still love M8 BW.

If I shot only BW, I would not get M10, after looking just now on flickr at MM and 246. Not even close, to my eye, as far as clarity. Those cameras are in a whole other league. Somebody tell me I'm crazy.

That said, I'm sure M10 will do fine in the normal context of color sensors.



Feb 04, 2017 at 07:31 PM
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