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Archive 2016 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
  
 
sebboh
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p.15 #1 · p.15 #1 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


freaklikeme wrote:
Here are A/B comparisons between the a7rII UT and the stock sensor. I don't have the patience to make eye charts like Derek, but there are full-size JPEGs available for download. My Elmarit-M 24 has a bad edge (right side) that may be my fault from disassembling it to see if I could use a front-filter on it, so it's going to have to go to DAG. Ah, the price of experimentation. Still, the improvements on the other side give me hope. The 18 pleases me to no end. It's the perfect size, weight, price, and focal length to be...Show more →

what was your focus point?
Apr 23, 2017 at 05:57 PM
freaklikeme
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p.15 #2 · p.15 #2 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


sebboh wrote:
what was your focus point?


The roof of the grey house in the center. I picked a street that ran straight enough right under a hill to allow me to line up perpendicular to the fence. The fence is about 200 yards away, maybe more. Did I screw it up?


Apr 23, 2017 at 06:14 PM
sebboh
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p.15 #3 · p.15 #3 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


freaklikeme wrote:
The roof of the grey house in the center. I picked a street that ran straight enough right under a hill to allow me to line up perpendicular to the fence. The fence is about 200 yards away, maybe more. Did I screw it up?

nah, just more focus shift on the lux pre-asph than i realized. i'm guessing you just focused at f/1.4?
Apr 23, 2017 at 11:56 PM
freaklikeme
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p.15 #4 · p.15 #4 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


sebboh wrote:
nah, just more focus shift on the lux pre-asph than i realized. i'm guessing you just focused at f/1.4?


I did. I forgot about the focus shift. It's not that obvious on any of the others.

So far, I'm very impressed. It feels worth it in ways the vII on the a7 did not.


Apr 24, 2017 at 12:11 AM
freaklikeme
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p.15 #5 · p.15 #5 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


Has anyone tried the BRNO BaLens white balance caps for setting custom WB? They're kind of pricey at the big retailers, but I found a 58mm on the bay for $20, so I decided to try it out on the 18.
May 09, 2017 at 12:42 AM
sebboh
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p.15 #6 · p.15 #6 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


freaklikeme wrote:
Has anyone tried the BRNO BaLens white balance caps for setting custom WB? They're kind of pricey at the big retailers, but I found a 58mm on the bay for $20, so I decided to try it out on the 18.

honestly, i just shoot the back of my grey phone and it seems to work fine...

definitely much better than my previous method of just letting auto WB choose and then trying to fix it in post.

here's how the back of the phone worked at the beach:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4186/34396624371_1a961a6de4_o.jpg
May 09, 2017 at 01:36 AM
freaklikeme
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p.15 #7 · p.15 #7 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


sebboh wrote:
honestly, i just shoot the back of my grey phone and it seems to work fine...

definitely much better than my previous method of just letting auto WB choose and then trying to fix it in post.

here's how the back of the phone worked at the beach:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4186/34396624371_1a961a6de4_o.jpg



Nice. That looks great.

My Ottercase has an inner grey sleeve that I've used in a pinch, but I have to take the hard plastic shell off to get a usable area, so that's my method of last resort. I'm actually not worried about any of the RF lenses. I was just looking for a 58mm cap that looked like it would clear the hood without paying for the crappy OEM. When this popped up, I thought it was cheap enough to try. If it works well on the 18, I'll probably pick up a couple more for the teles, which is where a solution like this would come in very handy.
May 09, 2017 at 01:51 AM
Matt721
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p.15 #8 · p.15 #8 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


I'm using the JJC White Balance Filter WB-F1 and it works well for all my lenses. Skeptical at first since it was so cheap but I have been pleasantly surprised. Using this in combination with the x-rite colorchecker passport gives me files I really like. One thing the mod taught me was how important color correction is. I used to take color for granted.
May 09, 2017 at 06:34 AM
freaklikeme
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p.15 #9 · p.15 #9 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


The BaLens cap works pretty well on the 18, and there is something to be said for taking the camera out of the bag, setting WB, and then shooting with nothing else necessary. So, I think it's worth further experimentation. I found a used 67mm in Hawaii for $10, so the next lens will be the AER 180.
May 12, 2017 at 07:35 PM
uhoh7
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p.15 #10 · p.15 #10 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


Lovely shot Derek
Bradly, I'm excited to see your results
I'm testing a stock a7rii with all my glass now, so I can tell what gets better.....

But I've been distracted by the incredible video on the r2. Very quirky to employ, but it's dragging me up to video speed after my 2008 retirement as a wedding videographer with the old PD170s, with which I shot many events.

The 4k quality is so high, I am actually motivated to film. I did not see that coming

PersonCyborg, I don't think you can go wrong with the ZM21/2.8. From my own study it may be the best small RF 21 on the stock camera, so it should really smoke on the mod

I'm shooting the H out of my SEM 21 on the stock r2 right now, because it is nice for video. I'll post some stills for ref at some point

The r2 has been very interesting to get acquainted with. The files are to die for in uncompressed raw. So sweet in LR. But I knew that from the Rx1r2. To my surprise I'm liking the IBIS, especially for video. I curse Sony every 10 minutes or less for the incredibly stupid user interface. Most of the serious problems of the camera are so obvious and easy to fix, basically software. Why they let that 1990 interface distort such great tech, I don't know.

The end result is a very needy camera. You really are forced to deal with those horrible little TVs constantly, finding and changing settings, and it takes you out of the moment big time. No excuse for such incompetence when underneath the horrible kafka OS are a host of features to die for

The video guys on YT are hilarious on the subject. Pretty embarrassing when Panny eats your lunch on a camera layout, meaning the GH5 which is the A7sii and r2's main competition fro 4k video. There are a bunch of head to head GH5 vs A7sii vids up on the tube, I wish Sony would watch some

A digital Leica, once you know it, seldom takes you away from "real" life like that. Even the M9 LCD is a joy compared to the awful look of the Sony menus, which are simply painful to look at.

But things could always be worse

You should see the nikkor 300/2.8 EDIF in 4k OMG It will be so fun to see how a mod is going to effect video.
May 13, 2017 at 10:10 PM
freaklikeme
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p.15 #11 · p.15 #11 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


Three more tested:

The M-mount Handevision IBERIT 24/2.4 (it was a gift)... https://flic.kr/s/aHskV7ewUr

The ZM Biogon 25 (the Elmarit may get sold when it comes back)... https://flic.kr/s/aHskV7h8XZ

The ZM Distagon 35 (I know you've seen it but I had to test out my copy anyway)... https://flic.kr/s/aHskZCTKzm

One with the ZM 18...

a7rII_UT_ZM18_Cranes by Bradley Clemens, on Flickr



One with the APO-Telyt 135, which wasn't tested today due to haze...

a7rII_UT_APO-Telyt135_HighWire by Bradley Clemens, on Flickr



And three with the Biogon 25, which worked its way into my heart pretty quickly...

a7rII_UT_ZM25_PrisonersOfLove by Bradley Clemens, on Flickr



a7rII_UT_ZM25_DenverBikes by Bradley Clemens, on Flickr



a7rII_UT_ZM25_BoomTown by Bradley Clemens, on Flickr
May 14, 2017 at 07:15 PM
freaklikeme
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p.15 #12 · p.15 #12 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


I don't really need another 35, but I am very interested to see how the C Biogon 35/2.8 works out on the mod. Anyone own it or have plans to try it out?
May 14, 2017 at 10:05 PM
teeraash
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p.15 #13 · p.15 #13 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


I have my A7 ultra thin mod back from Taiwan NKIR today. He calls it "Extreme Mod". The thickness is only 0.75mm, and sensor cover is removed. This is the newest version that he claims to have better anti reflection coating while the uv/ir cut is only slightly worse than the 0.85mm version and Leica M9. I tested it with Zeiss ZM 35/1.4 and compare this extreme mod with my stock A7R II with and without PCX 5m front end filter. But no need to show the stock a7r 2 without front end filter as they are a mile apart. Images were edited in LR with auto tone and sharpening. Here are the results from f1.4 to f4.

First, the center area.
http://Center.jpg by Teera Ashakul, on Flickr


Mid-frame
http://mid.jpg by Teera Ashakul, on Flickr


Left corner
corner.jpg by Teera Ashakul, on Flickr



May 15, 2017 at 05:05 AM
uhoh7
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p.15 #14 · p.15 #14 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


So cool we have two A7rii in here now, one with UT and one with NKIR

@teeraasch oh, now I get it, one is A7....

Let's see some infinity shoots when you have a chance


May 17, 2017 at 09:19 PM
teeraash
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p.15 #15 · p.15 #15 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


I compared A7 UT NKIR 0.75+ vs stock A7R 2 with PCX 5000m front-end filter, using ZM 35mm 1.4. The former is defintely better than the latter particulary in the mid-frame area. The corner is even in sharpness but images from A7R 2 look better due to BSI and thus less vignetting. NKIR is also better in the center as it has no sensor cover glass and uv/ir cut filter is only 0.75mm. Besides, it has no thick filter at the front-end of the lens.

Will post results of Zeiss 25mm 2.8 from A7 UT NKIR 0.75+ vs stock A7R 2 with PCX 2500mm. The differences here are even more dramatic.

Edited on May 18, 2017 at 02:26 AM · View previous versions
May 18, 2017 at 02:12 AM
teeraash
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p.15 #16 · p.15 #16 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


@uhoh7, exactly what the NKIR you have on A7R 2? After seeing the results of A7 NKIR UT 0.75+, I'm thinking of sending my A7R 2 to have it modded as well.


May 18, 2017 at 02:16 AM
Nanh
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p.15 #17 · p.15 #17 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


Interesting alternative to the kolari mod. I'm Wondering how different the color is compared to stock camera? Is the white balance shifted? Do colors look similar after you correct the wb? Or do you have to do the extra step of creating a color profile?

teeraash wrote:
@uhoh7@, exactly what the NKIR you have on A7R 2? After seeing the results of A7 NKIR UT 0.75+, I'm thinking of sending my A7R 2 to have it modded as well.



May 18, 2017 at 03:08 AM
artur5
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p.15 #18 · p.15 #18 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


teeraash wrote:
..........
Will post results of Zeiss 25mm 2.8 from A7 UT NKIR 0.75+ vs stock A7R 2 with PCX 2500mm. The differences here are even more dramatic.
So, a Sony-UT 0.75 is better than Sony stock + front filter ?. That's interesting to know. According to HaruhikoT simulation for the ZM25, a Sony stock + PCX2000 (not 2500) outperforms by some margin a Sony-Kolari-UT, both at f/2.8 and f/5.6. Even a PCX2500 ( which isn't as good as a PCX200 on the ZM25), gives a bit better results for the Sony stock with front filter compared to the UT modded camera..
Of course, these simulations are based on a perfect 25mm. lens and I guess that the innherent flaws of the ZM25 play a role in real life.


May 18, 2017 at 04:46 AM
teeraash
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p.15 #19 · p.15 #19 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


@artur5 are you sure that pcx2000 is better than pcx2500 on ZM 25mm? I didn't follow that threat lately. But I recall that the consensus is that pcx2500 is the best. Color pof NKIR (0.75) is much better than what I got with Karali v2. Probably you can adjust in-camera WB tint b1g2 to get nice jpeg color straight out of the camera or simply use LR color picker. It takes lot more time to adjust the Kolari color which deviates a lot from stock Sony.

Oh I browsed that thread again and saw the simulatiin on p67 which indicates that pcx2000 is better than 2500. Probably I go by the testing results of Guy and Fred? which show remarkable corners sharpness of pcx2500 on this lens.

I have Optosigma pcx 1500, 2500, 5000 and Eksma pcx 10000. All of them performs worse than NKIR UT on all lenses that I've tried so far (ZM 35/1.4, 25/2.8, 50/1.5 Leica 50/1.4 asph, 50/2 IV).

Up until now I've tested only near distance but my preliminary finding is that m-mount lenses on NKIR UT are even better than on M240. Only extreme edges and corners are slightly worse due to vignette! I also see that Loxia 50mm performs better on A7 NKIR UT than stock A7R 2 even in the peripherals in terms of sharpness and contrast. I have to redo the test as I myself find that these are hard to beleive!


I'm not associated with NKIR in anyway and would like to point some apparent negative points. NKIR takes out the sensor cover (noone has done this) and he said around 5% may have scratched as the process is complicate and not risk-free. He will mitigate this damage for you (I don't know how, cmos surface repair?). Secondly, moire can be severe with some lenses particularly on the A7 as the mod makes the mirror stack ultra thin with no AA. Thirdly, we may run into infrared leak for certain lenses as it is only 0.75mm thick. He sent me the full spectral uv-ir cut analysis. The 0.75mm is slightly worse than the mediocre M9 above 700nm. If I do it again, I'll choose 0.85mm over the 0.75mm.

Lot of hurdle and headache. Is it worth to do it? I don't know but I don't like what they say "m-lenses are best used on m-cameras"


May 18, 2017 at 06:19 AM
artur5
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p.15 #20 · p.15 #20 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action


I guess that Zeiss won't like you comments concerning the Loxia 50 being better in a NKIR UT camera than on a stock A7. This demolishes all their marketing about the lens being specially designed for the Sony sensor stack.
Logic tells me that the UT sensor mod should be a better technical solution than a external filter. Removing unwanted 'obstacles' between lens and sensor makes more sense that adding glass to counteract the negative effects of a thick stack. Apart from the cost, to me the main drawbacks of the Kolari/NKIR mod are the uncertain performance with native FE lenses, nullifying the warranty and also the possible infrared leaks and/or the need for dedicated color profile/WB. Adding a PCX front filter is cheaper and the camera remains untouched.
May 18, 2017 at 07:53 AM
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