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Archive 2016 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted

  
 
jcolwell
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


Tony Rogers wrote:
The 1Ds III had a resolution of 21 megapixels on a full-frame sensor - the 1D X went backwards on that with no countervailing advantage.


I think that sustained 12 fps (1DX) vs. short-lived 5 fps (1DsIII), and usable ISO 12,800 (1DX) vs. 3200 (1DsIII), and better and more flexible AF (1DX), could all be considered to be "countervailing advantages". Even one of them could make the change well-worthwhile. I was looking for IQ as good as the 1DsIII and 10 fps or more. The 1DX delivered a lot more than that.

Tony Rogers wrote:
I continue to maintain that the 1D X was never a replacement for the 1Ds III. Its frame rate makes it clear that it was only a replacement for the 1D IV.


I agree.

I look forward to seeing the 1DsX. Although, it's more likely that I'll buy a 5DS II, and a waterproof bag.



Jan 12, 2016 at 05:20 PM
CanadaMark
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


Vancouver47 wrote:
Considering al the noise about Canon's "poor" DR performance in the past three years, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the reported 15 stop DR spec. I'm certainly looking forward to 15 stop DR.


I believe that's because in the past, Canon has played this same marketing game before. If I recall, they said the C300M2 had 15 stops of DR, which ended up being more like 12 stops in real use. If Canon has changed their sensor fab or farmed out the sensors, it might be possible. They also say they use a subjective element as part of their analysis when rating their sensor DR, rather than the objective results you commonly see in online discussions.

Obviously I hope Canon has pulled off 15 stops of usable DR in the 1DX2 but I think it's best filed under the "believe it when I see it" category.



Jan 12, 2016 at 05:21 PM
jcolwell
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


CanadaMark wrote:
... They also say they use a subjective element as part of their analysis when rating their sensor DR, rather than the objective results you commonly see in online discussions..


There's more than one way to do most things. For example, Canon publishes theoretical MTF curves for their lenses, while Zeiss publishes measured MTF curves. They're both correct within the scope of their definitions, yet the MTF curves for two lenses with virtually identical MTF performance (one Canon and one Zeiss), look significantly different.

CanadaMark wrote:
Obviously I hope Canon has pulled off 15 stops of usable DR in the 1DX2 but I think it's best filed under the "believe it when I see it" category.


Me too.



Jan 12, 2016 at 05:34 PM
CanadaMark
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


jcolwell wrote:
There's more than one way to do most things. For example, Canon publishes theoretical MTF curves for their lenses, while Zeiss publishes measured MTF curves. They're both correct within the scope of their definitions, yet the MTF curves for two lenses with virtually identical MTF performance (one Canon and one Zeiss), look significantly different.

Me too.


Agreed on both accounts. Anything can be correct within the scope of it's own definitions though, which tends to mislead people. When people read a DR figure online, I think it's safe to say most are comparing it to the objective figures for existing cameras obtained by third party testing. All I'm saying is that if it's like the past, the way Canon advertises 15 stops of DR is not consistent with the DR measurements that most people have come to know and discuss (at length) in the forums. Again, if they have managed to pull it off this time around, good on them.



Jan 12, 2016 at 05:53 PM
jcolwell
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


CanadaMark wrote:
... When people read a DR figure online, I think it's safe to say most are comparing it to the objective figures for existing cameras obtained by third party testing...


I'm with you, but (like MTF) there's more than one valid way to measure DR. The most commonly used "third-party testing" methodology is not the only valid and reasonable way to do it, yet "the most popular" one is often accepted as the only reasonable way to do it.

IOW, you get what you pay for. In this case, the more of your valuable time that you spend on educating yourself about what all of these "metrics" mean, the better off you are. I prefer to spend my time before I spend my money, ...well, that's probably an over-simplicifation. Let me spend some time on this.




Jan 12, 2016 at 06:04 PM
bernardl
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


ggreene wrote:
Looking at the D5 it doesn't look like the specs are that much beyond the 4 year old 1DX so I doubt anyone is going to switch when the 1DX2 is announced. Canon may well have trouble enticing 1DX users to upgrade.


As I said, the spec sheet is one thing, the real world focusing performance may convince some people to switch one way or another.

Image quality is likely going to be brilliant on both bodies, but how good is that if you have too few focused images when the conditions get tough?

When you shoot once in a life time events, the confidence you are going to get the shot every time is key.

Cheers,
Bernard



Jan 12, 2016 at 10:25 PM
ggreene
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


bernardl wrote:
As I said, the spec sheet is one thing, the real world focusing performance may convince some people to switch one way or another. Image quality is likely going to be brilliant on both bodies, but how good is that if you have too few focused images when the conditions get tough? When you shoot once in a life time events, the confidence you are going to get the shot every time is key.


Given that the 1DX and D4s already AF incredibly well, I doubt there will be a large enough gap in performance to justify a switch. The flagships are simply too close in performance to warrant a selloff and repurchase of lenses.

I could see Canon users being interested in "adding" the D500+200-500/5.6 combo to their gear bag though. That is a compelling option.



Jan 13, 2016 at 07:37 AM
Tony Ross
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


jcolwell wrote:
I think that sustained 12 fps (1DX) vs. short-lived 5 fps (1DsIII), and usable ISO 12,800 (1DX) vs. 3200 (1DsIII), and better and more flexible AF (1DX), could all be considered to be "countervailing advantages". Even one of them could make the change well-worthwhile. I was looking for IQ as good as the 1DsIII and 10 fps or more. The 1DX delivered a lot more than that.

I agree.

I look forward to seeing the 1DsX. Although, it's more likely that I'll buy a 5DS II, and a waterproof bag.


I bought the 5Ds (and I already had a waterproof bag)

I consider the 5Ds as the closest thing to a replacement for the 1Ds III, in fact.



Jan 13, 2016 at 02:47 PM
Michael H
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


I'm not sure this is the place to add this, but I'd take a hard look at the 1DX2 or whatever its going to be called. I'm currently considering replacing my fantastic 1DSIII with a 1DX. There have been many times when I could really use the better focusing/frame rate/high ISO if the 1DX. I can live with the lower resolution but still get the full frame look when needed.

Does this make sense? Would I be giving up anything else besides resolution?



Jan 15, 2016 at 03:19 PM
Ziffl3
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


Michael H wrote:
I'm not sure this is the place to add this, but I'd take a hard look at the 1DX2 or whatever its going to be called. I'm currently considering replacing my fantastic 1DSIII with a 1DX. There have been many times when I could really use the better focusing/frame rate/high ISO if the 1DX. I can live with the lower resolution but still get the full frame look when needed.

Does this make sense? Would I be giving up anything else besides resolution?


I think you are making the resolution difference to be bigger than it is.

I do not see a big difference between a 1DX and a 5DmkIII. What I do see is better handling of color when it gets into ugly shooting conditions - meaning higher ISO.

That and the AF being a tad better.... and spot AF linked to exposure.
Where as the 5DmkIII, the spot AF influences the exposure.

-Mark




Jan 15, 2016 at 03:33 PM
Michael H
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


Ziffl3 wrote:
I think you are making the resolution difference to be bigger than it is.

I do not see a big difference between a 1DX and a 5DmkIII. What I do see is better handling of color when it gets into ugly shooting conditions - meaning higher ISO.

That and the AF being a tad better.... and spot AF linked to exposure.
Where as the 5DmkIII, the spot AF influences the exposure.

-Mark



Thanks for the thoughts Mark. The resolution isn't something I consider to be a big deal at all. I just identified it as one of the possible trade-offs.

Cheers





Jan 15, 2016 at 04:11 PM
anselwannab
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


I wonder if the 1DX will end up being the 'pinnacle' 1D, at least until some new sensor tech comes out. Let's face it, 18MP is good for all but pixel popping and extreme cropping. Until we get to something else (pellicle or sensor based viewfinder) it is going to be tough to really trump 12FPS. No AF is ever going to be perfect.

It looks like a 1DX is about $3000 used. Maybe takes a $500 hit when the new one comes out. It's not like they get more expensive. Unless the 5DIV has some crazy DR or some other killer feature, I might swing a used 1DX as a way to replace my 1DIII and 5DII. Frankly, they still get the job done, though I don't really trust either AF system and better high ISO would be nice.



Jan 16, 2016 at 12:54 AM
Ziffl3
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


anselwannab wrote:
I wonder if the 1DX will end up being the 'pinnacle' 1D, at least until some new sensor tech comes out. Let's face it, 18MP is good for all but pixel popping and extreme cropping. Until we get to something else (pellicle or sensor based viewfinder) it is going to be tough to really trump 12FPS. No AF is ever going to be perfect.

It looks like a 1DX is about $3000 used. Maybe takes a $500 hit when the new one comes out. It's not like they get more expensive. Unless the 5DIV has some crazy DR or some other
...Show more

a 1DX will out perform both of the current bodies you have in many many different areas.
ISO, AF - target tracking, locking on in dark situations, speed of AF locking on, raw file goodness, menu layout, etc.

-Mark





Jan 16, 2016 at 12:37 PM
jcolwell
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


anselwannab wrote:
... Let's face it, 18MP is good for all but pixel popping and extreme cropping...


...and large prints.




Jan 16, 2016 at 12:53 PM
dehowie
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


Is it just me or are we reaching the point of diminishing returns.
I have not seen anything to get me seriously excited from any of the 1Dx2 specs or the D5.
With the 1Dx I already have two cameras which,

Outstanding AF which works exceptionally in all conditions.
Have very workable files ie shadow pushing.
12fps
Decent buffer
Great weather sealing.
Enough MP for big prints ie 1.3m across.
Is a camera I trust and simply works beautifully.

It seems other that to me the only attraction is a larger buffer and given I already take to many images even a big buffered 1Dx2 with 3,000000 ISO that I would never use needs something to set it well apart from the 1Dx.
Other than a truly large increase in DR I can't get excited about more AF points or more ISO.
The 1DX is truly tough act to follow so maybe it might be my first generation 1 series to skip?



Jan 17, 2016 at 09:51 PM
schlotz
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


Canon has the opportunity to increase their benefits (earnings) from it's top of the line products by ensuring the 1DX2 will come with a two stop improvement in ISO. Why? Because a two stop improvement will allow the 200-400 f/4 to operate in lower light conditions, i.e usual f/2.8 territory. Of course, that's not so good on the consumer's wallet


Jan 18, 2016 at 06:43 AM
ggreene
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


That's basically where I'm at. A two stop improvement of usable high ISO will get my attention. Otherwise it's like dehowie said.


Jan 18, 2016 at 07:18 AM
Zorro2016
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


For me, the obvious feature of the 1DX Mk2 is its AF and tracking capabilities over the 1DX. Not only is the AF faster, when using a 2X TC on a 500/600mm f4 lens, the new camera will allow all focusing points to be active even when the effective aperture is f8. On the 1DX, only the centre AF point and 4 surrounding points (with AF area expansion) are effective. I understand there will also be a multi-frame silent shooting mode instead of the single shooting silent mode on the 1DX.

I believe that at this stage in the DSLR camera industry, we are reaching the limits of technology and we should not be seeing several big improvements over the older camera model. We can expect small improvements here and there with the 1DX Mk2 that will all add up to make this new camera the best professional camera from Canon - until the next pro model turns up



Jan 18, 2016 at 11:12 AM
adamx12m
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


Zorro2016 wrote:
For me, the obvious feature of the 1DX Mk2 is its AF and tracking capabilities over the 1DX. Not only is the AF faster, when using a 2X TC on a 500/600mm f4 lens, the new camera will allow all focusing points to be active even when the effective aperture is f8. On the 1DX, only the centre AF point and 4 surrounding points (with AF area expansion) are effective. I understand there will also be a multi-frame silent shooting mode instead of the single shooting silent mode on the 1DX.

I believe that at this stage in the DSLR camera
...Show more

I don't know if faster AF is really needed vs smarter AF algorithms that adapt to subjects better. AF point pattern selections today are just limited, but you would think with the use of gyro chips AF patterns could adapt to left and right panning actions and expand as needed. Or subjects coming at you where they start small in the frame and then fill up the frame, the AF pattern expands automatically. I would hope the future is more software defined AF plugin algo's that can be installed and updated over time.








Jan 18, 2016 at 12:30 PM
mogud
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · 1DX II- 22mp Just Posted


Zorro2016 wrote:
For me, the obvious feature of the 1DX Mk2 is its AF and tracking capabilities over the 1DX. Not only is the AF faster, when using a 2X TC on a 500/600mm f4 lens, the new camera will allow all focusing points to be active even when the effective aperture is f8. On the 1DX, only the centre AF point and 4 surrounding points (with AF area expansion) are effective. I understand there will also be a multi-frame silent shooting mode instead of the single shooting silent mode on the 1DX........


You are describing functionality details which have not been mentioned by the rumor sites as far as I know. Could you please elaborate where you read that AF tracking capabilities are improved over the 1Dx or is this your best guess? Not saying this is not the case and we are all expecting this but, if you read this somewhere, please share the source.

Specifically, your statement that the 1Dx2 allows for all AF points active when using a 2x TC at f8 is great news but again, where did you see these details? In addition, the continuos silent shutter is a feature which is likely on the new body but had not been stated to date.

The f8 all focus points active is a big deal for me and could sway me to think again about the 1Dx2.



Jan 18, 2016 at 01:38 PM
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