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Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread

  
 
joe88
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p.130 #1 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


No worries all, think its time for me to load up some film for my M6

I hope it returns quickly as well. The old adage is true. Always have a backup, more so if if you're shooting digital M8 or M9.

I'll keep you guys posted!

Joe



Dec 05, 2010 at 04:48 PM
charles.K
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p.130 #2 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thank you Joe No I didn't use the 28 Cron as a comparison. I find that for beach shots the rendering of the 28 Elmarit is better. Then other times the smoother rendering of the 28 Cron is preferred. Interesting!

Joe, hmmm... so sorry about the M9 !!! See if they can put it on the urgent repair list

A backup is so important, maybe this is where the NEX 5 may come in for Christmas

Edited on Dec 05, 2010 at 05:54 PM · View previous versions



Dec 05, 2010 at 05:34 PM
denoir
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p.130 #3 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Well Carsten, I think we'll have to wait and see. I think if Leica wants to keep the market share it has gained with the M9 from slipping away from them then they will have to adapt to the realities of the market. This will definitely disappoint the hardcore Leica fan base but I'm guessing the fans will survive - after all they remained loyal even after Leica started releasing Panasonic cameras. I get the feeling that Leica does want to modernize and grow. If they fail they will most likely go broke or perhaps remains as a small player catering to people still attached to the Leica brand and folklore. Or Cosina will buy them and we'll have Cosina Voigtländer, Cosina Zeiss and Cosina Leica I can imagine Leica fans crying out in horror at the thought.

In my opinion however there is every possibility to combine both worlds. Adding live view and faster electronics won't detract from the classic rangefinder use and neither would a replacing of the mechanical rangefinder coupling with an electronic one. There will of course be complaints from conservatives but on the other hand there was a lot of complaints when live view and articulating displays were added to DSLRs. Yet today most people accept them as valuable tools that add to the usability of the camera.



Dec 05, 2010 at 05:41 PM
charles.K
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p.130 #4 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks a lot Luka The shots were all converted in ACR. I was just testing C1, as I have read a lot of people with M8/9 seem to prefer the conversion with C1. Still I prefer to simplify, otherwise I spend too much time PP, rather than taking shots.

Interesting discussions!



Dec 05, 2010 at 05:49 PM
denoir
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p.130 #5 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


charles.K wrote:
Thanks a lot Luka The shots were all converted in ACR. I was just testing C1, as I have read a lot of people with M8/9 seem to prefer the conversion with C1. Still I prefer to simplify, otherwise I spend too much time PP, rather than taking shots.


I thought your previous C1 conversion test looked very interesting. I downloaded a trial version but it keeps crashing on me so I gave it up. It would however be interesting to do some more extensive tests with other RAW developers as I'm not really happy with ACR's handling of M9 RAWs. On the other hand I can't see that I could switch to a different RAW developer as Lightroom is my main photo management software.





























Dec 05, 2010 at 05:53 PM
carstenw
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p.130 #6 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Are you having coding problems, Luka? I see some off-colour corners in each of these 4 images.


Dec 05, 2010 at 06:14 PM
Bijltje
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p.130 #7 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Bobu wrote:
I will try to explain my thoughts. I was looking for a replacement for my two Sigma DP1 with slightly higher resolution and a bit more flexibility regarding the focal length choices. I like manual focus (which I used even with the DP1 pretty often). And l like the rendering of most of the Zeiss lenses and of several of the Leica lenses (for example 50Lux, 75Cron, 90Cron). I will use this camera handheld for street photography (like my night market images of Thailand shot with the DP1), family images (mainly portraits) and on a tripod for landscape images on
...Show more
Offcourse it makes sense, I can't myself think of another camera.

And I don't want to say you can't use the M8 or M9 on a tripod. Else leica would put a tripod screw at the bottom, or sell tripods them self. Use it as you like.
But remember the M's main ground is street photography. It has been for a long time and they are really good in this. For other types of photography other camera's can be as good, or maybe better.
When I read you don't like the viewfinder, the big advantage of the leica for me is that same viewfinder. The rangefinder can be really accurate when focusing and I never had the need for live view. As we didn't need it for many years.

I would say, give it a try (see you did) and try to decide later if you really don't like the rangefinder system.


Bobu wrote:
Luka, do you think, that the IQ of the M9 is much better than the IQ of the M8? I would really like to have a FF camera but mainly for more wide angle choices. Maybe I should just buy a NEX in addition to my M8 and use both cameras for some time and then keep the one that I like more. It should be pretty easy to sell a M8 or NEX without a significant loss.

By the way my priority list for the M9.2 or M10 would be the same as yours.

Boris


I don't think the difference between the M8 and M9 is that big.
When Using the camera you don't feel any difference, only the framelines are in a different position, and your 35mm acts like a 50. Its not like a 30D to 5D difference with smaller viewfinder.
The UV/IR filters are expensive, but when you use them you don't notice them anymore. I have them stuck on my lenses all the time.
A big advantage of the M9 is the lens coding by software, but this is only usefull when using non or old leica lenses. Coding my 28 zeiss was 100 euro, coding a old leica lens is also 100 euro.
Now I only have new leica lenses and they are coded when bought.

The output of the M8 at low iso's is great, only in the high iso's the M8 gets weak and the M9 (and sony NEX) will have a big advantage. And still I use and like the 1250 ISO shots from the M8. Gets noisy as hell, but so did the high iso films.

A totaly agree with Denoir about the M8 and M9 buyers. I myself bought the M8 because I like using rangefinders, not because its a smaller camera.


About the NEX or M8, if money isn't an option, give it a try. Finding out yourself is the best solution. And the 18/4 will work on the NEX so that isn't a problem.

Overall, enjoy your M8. The 18/4 zeiss is a really awesome lens.



Dec 05, 2010 at 06:16 PM
denoir
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p.130 #8 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


carstenw wrote:
Are you having coding problems, Luka? I see some off-colour corners in each of these 4 images.


Yes and no. I'm having primarily snow problems.

The color shift in the corners would not have been visible had it been anything but a completely white surface. The coding is of course never perfect for Zeiss lenses as it is approximately matched to an equivalent lens. In the case of the ZM18 & ZM25 the ink rubs off on occasion producing an unwanted coding.

You should not see any color shift on the ZM18 - it has been CornerFixed (without vignette removal).



Dec 05, 2010 at 06:26 PM
rscheffler
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p.130 #9 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


denoir wrote:
Ron, nice shot. Interesting comments as well. I have been positively surprised by the speed of the M9 because I was expecting something much worse. Objectively however, compared to a modern DSLR it is painfully slow. I'm not bothered by buffer limitations but improvements in the image preview functions would certainly be welcome. My own priority list for an M9.2 or M10 would be:

1. Live view
2. Improved high ISO performance
3. Improved screen resolution and image preview function
4. Electronically coupled rangefinder
5. Better handling of RAW files (lens corrections should not be applied to the RAW file itself, better DNG profile etc)
6.
...Show more

Thanks. I agree that for general "street" type wandering photography where one is likely to maybe only take at most a few shots in succession, the M9 is fast enough. Where I do a fair amount of paid work though is social events, including weddings. It's in such situations where I need to work rapidly and fluidly. At the moment the M9 RAW buffer seems to be a potential bottleneck. Naturally with the range of photographers contributing here, we're all going to have somewhat different preferences and biases about potential improvements.

I agree live view would be handy, but I'm not sure I would personally use it much in an M camera. The relatively inaccurate framing thus far hasn't really bothered me much. It would be interesting to see a live view implementation such as an EVF in the Fuji X100, but suspect it would significantly complicate the viewfinder if a mechanical rangefinder was retained.

Agree with 2, 3, 5 and 6. My concern with an electronically coupled rangefinder would be that it would introduce it's own set of calibration issues, along the lines of what has been the case for Canon and Nikon users, micro focus adjustment, etc.

Having been a SLR/DSLR user for a couple decades, much of which has been the Canon EOS system, including lowlight AF inaccuracy/inconsistency frustrations, there is a refreshing simplicity to the M system due to its mechanical design and relative ease in focusing even in low light conditions I otherwise could not do manually, with my eyes, using my current DSLRs.

The NEX is interesting but the main reason I'm not keen on it is the lack of an EVF. I just don't like holding a camera like a P&S while trying to manually adjust focus, etc. (assuming an M lens on the camera). I need to hold it to my eye, or just shoot without looking, which I can already do with my DSLRs and M.

Carsten, I generally agree with you about your list of M9 dislikes. I think I too have seen a few instances where there has been some IR contamination in black textiles, but it has been infrequent so far. I was also initially put off a bit by the relatively loud shutter and motor drive noise. At least there is an option to delay the motor advance from the time of shutter release. I'd bet that Leica will address a lot of this with the next release. Perhaps some of the electronic goodness of the S2 will trickle down.

Running a bit low on images... I guess I need to start editing again while on this trip. Here's one at the airport heading towards baggage claim. This is the family that was seated around me. I liked the way the boy was running around and here stopped to look out the window. But I also wanted a reminder of the potential nightmare they could have been for me, and probably were for other, less fortunate fellow travelers. The older man was beside me. Seemed like a nice guy, though I slept for most of the flight. His youngest grandchild though, the one in the stroller, was in the row in front of me on the mom's lap. She cried and screamed for probably the majority of the 8 hour flight (at least she did every time I was momentarily awake). All I can say is thank you Steve Jobs for the iPod and the ability to play an endless 8hr+ music shuffle to drown out the screaming! I can't imagine (or remember how I survived) air travel prior to PMPs.

ZM 35 f/2.8. The corridor was lit with blue LED lighting, hence some of the funky colour.







Also, nice set of images Luka, I particularly like the last two, though there's some haloing in the footprints image that bugs me a bit, but that's just me. Was that from cranking up the clarity setting in LR?



Dec 05, 2010 at 07:16 PM
sebboh
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p.130 #10 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


carstenw wrote:
The X1 isn't anywhere near full frame. I am not aware of any FF sensors on the open market. The closest is the Sony sensor, which is also sold to Nikon. I don't think there are others, and I don't think that Leica could buy that Sony sensor, nor would they want to. At Leica's volumes, they need a small specialist, or a lot of goodwill on the part of a supplier. I also think you underestimate the Japanese reluctance to supply core technologies to non-Japanese companies.


um, i'm pretty sure the X1 sensor is a sony sensor, the same one used in the pentax k-x (and related to the ones used in the nikon d300s, d90, d5000). as far as FF sensors go, if not sony, they might be able go with whomever it actually is that nikon used for their d3 and d3s sensors (i forgotten who it is that is generally thought to have fabricated that sensor, but nikon certainly can't do it themselves yet).



Dec 05, 2010 at 07:44 PM
 


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charles.K
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p.130 #11 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


rscheffler wrote:
Having been a SLR/DSLR user for a couple decades, much of which has been the Canon EOS system, including lowlight AF inaccuracy/inconsistency frustrations, there is a refreshing simplicity to the M system due to its mechanical design and relative ease in focusing even in low light conditions I otherwise could not do manually, with my eyes, using my current DSLRs.


Luka, very nice set of shots! I really like the composition and lighting of #3 and #4. The wish list would be great BTW the cornerfix corrections look great!

Ron nice shot, even with the funky lighting!

Ron,as you succintly described it is, "...refreshing simplicity to the M system due to its mechanical design and relative ease in focusing even in low light..." I was frustrated with the Canon DSLR's with excellent lenses such as the 50L and 85L getting the focus nailed. It does not matter how great the lenses are, OOF shots are so frustrating, particularly the one that is meant to be the keeper.

What I love most about the M9, is the simplicity, ergonomics and size. At times I do get caught out with the slow start up, or buffer speed. But, there are amazing lenses available and it is great to have in focus shots 95% of the time, where the only person to blame is me

I Luka, I will further test Capture One, as the initial testing feels the M9 dng files there is more flexibility and richer colours. Don't know why, but interesting! Capture One is very intensive on computer processors, so enough RAM is a necessity. I know a lot of people use LR3, but having been with CS1,2,3, 4 and 5, I use Adobe Bridge very similar in work flow to LR3 anyway. The RAW conversion from C1 is different but excellent. I know there are many using M8/9's suggest that the conversion in C1 is better. IMO with ACR and the ability to input profiles and corrections improves the output dramatically.



Dec 05, 2010 at 08:20 PM
carstenw
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p.130 #12 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


sebboh wrote:
um, i'm pretty sure the X1 sensor is a sony sensor, the same one used in the pentax k-x (and related to the ones used in the nikon d300s, d90, d5000). as far as FF sensors go, if not sony, they might be able go with whomever it actually is that nikon used for their d3 and d3s sensors (i forgotten who it is that is generally thought to have fabricated that sensor, but nikon certainly can't do it themselves yet).


Could easily be Sony who manufactures the X1 sensor, but it isn't full frame, and so the market is wide open, and the Japanese will compete alongside anyone else. With full frame this is not the case, and the tech is much harder to come by.

Ron, great shot, funky lighting and all!



Dec 06, 2010 at 09:04 AM
adamdewilde
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p.130 #13 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


joe88 wrote:
2 pics from today with the M9 35CronIV. No, the 2nd shot is not contemporary art.

This is part of what I described in LUF:

"Camera was working fine this morning (see 1st pic) and all of a sudden the LCD lost backlight and the 2nd pic appeared on the screen."

Guess I'll be without the M9 for X'Mas. I'll contact Leica tomorrow



Something like this happened to me with my Leica AND with my 5DII in the same day, AND it's never happened before that point ever in my years of photography (digital)... My guess was that there was some type of either A) problem with a new batch of Sandisk cards, or B) Alien magnetic interference.

Just thought I'd also add that I love everyones photos, I just haven't had time to sleep let alone use my M9 for fun..

EDIT: Not the LCD losing power thing... Just the image turned out that way when I loaded them cards on my computer.. But both cards from same shoot unloaded on the same day..



Dec 06, 2010 at 09:18 AM
joe88
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p.130 #14 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Adam, thanks for chipping in. I tried various options, another SD card (different brand), reformating, rebooting, 2nd battery, reset firmware, etc no avail.

Called Leica NJ this morning and was told to sent it in. Also told to call in within 3 days to check on status. Normally take 10 days turnaround. While its there I might as well have the RF alignment checked. Fingers crossed.

Joe



Dec 06, 2010 at 10:32 AM
joe88
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p.130 #15 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Nice shots Luka and Ron!

an older pic 90 Tele-E










Dec 06, 2010 at 10:36 AM
singletrack
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p.130 #16 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Nice shot Joe!
One more at 1/8 from me at ISO 329 with my 28 Elmarit ASPH






Need tips on how to use the focusing tab on my 28 Elmarit. DOn't quite like it just yet....

Cheers

KL



Dec 06, 2010 at 12:18 PM
ultrapix
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p.130 #17 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Really great shots in this topic, Luka's ones being my personal # n.1

BTW, as ex Leica fan (my M8 is been lethargic in past 2 years), I still see in the M9 shoots the usual corner color cast that made me hating the M8.

Sorry, I can't live with a multicolor sensor

Otherwise, really gorgeous pics!



Dec 06, 2010 at 01:22 PM
John Black
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p.130 #18 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


The corner color cast is fully fixable in C1 with a LCC profile applied.


Dec 06, 2010 at 02:58 PM
ultrapix
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p.130 #19 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


John Black wrote:
The corner color cast is fully fixable in C1 with a LCC profile applied.


It's about the word "fully" that I disagree; if you look at Luka's snow shoots, you can see that the left side shows more magenta cast than the right one.
I am an early user of Kodak Cmos, and I wasted too much time in trying to solve issues; I still like Leica lenses, but definitely don't their electronic cameras



Dec 06, 2010 at 03:09 PM
carstenw
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p.130 #20 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


My opinion is not quite as extreme as yours, but I generally agree about the M9. I find that as long as you can avoid bright lights hitting the front of the IR filter directly, the M8 with Leica lenses and IR filters has very nice colours.


Dec 06, 2010 at 03:36 PM
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