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Archive 2009Canon 7D
p.19 #1Canon 7D
U.C. wrote:
The XS isn't something new, it's just a combination of older technology.
That's exactly my point. Since when can't a FF 7D be a combination of older tech?
The XS isn't something new, it's just a combination of older technology.
That's exactly my point. Since when can't a FF 7D be a combination of older tech?
Aug 21, 2009 at 12:59 PM
p.19 #2Canon 7D
too much spin is being given for canon & their master plans (ie. 5 year strategies).
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
we all know it costs much more (time & expense) to come up with a REVOLUTIONARY NEW DESIGN then milk a product along.
Yes Nikon sacrificed sales gearing up the D3/300 but it also RELIED on sony (3rd party) dSLR sensor technology so much of their problems were self induced for lack of R&D & product planning.
the 1DsmkIII, 40D, 50D, 5DmkII shows you they are stuck on auto-pilot, resting on their laurels.
this is a disappointment & hurts photographers of all brands. more competition makes for better dSLRs.
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
we all know it costs much more (time & expense) to come up with a REVOLUTIONARY NEW DESIGN then milk a product along.
Yes Nikon sacrificed sales gearing up the D3/300 but it also RELIED on sony (3rd party) dSLR sensor technology so much of their problems were self induced for lack of R&D & product planning.
the 1DsmkIII, 40D, 50D, 5DmkII shows you they are stuck on auto-pilot, resting on their laurels.
this is a disappointment & hurts photographers of all brands. more competition makes for better dSLRs.
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:00 PM
p.19 #3Canon 7D
n0b0 wrote:
Not familiar with those companies. I've seen a lot of ford around, mostly the ford transit van but ain't never seen no chevy.
"Holdens" are a GM company
toddmitchell wrote
yep, just like ford & chevy"Holdens" are a GM company
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:08 PM
p.19 #4Canon 7D
Competition is always better for consumers. But till last year Canon didn't have much competition. If I were completely new to the DSLR-market and I had to make a choice between Canon, Nikon and Sony: Canon would not be it, but Nikon. Canon has a great line of prosumer lenses (the 17-40 and the 70-200 f/4's) which Nikon does not have, but there's always Sigma and Tamron to go on a budget.
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:09 PM
p.19 #5Canon 7D
kakomu wrote:
That's exactly my point. Since when can't a FF 7D be a combination of older tech?
The 7D than will be a 1Ds2.
U.C. wrote
The XS isn't something new, it's just a combination of older technology.The 7D than will be a 1Ds2.
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:12 PM
p.19 #6Canon 7D
Glen_C wrote:
too much spin is being given for canon & their master plans (ie. 5 year strategies).
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
I think the bigger problem is that too many bodies are being released in such a short period of time. The lifetime of the Rebel DSLR cameras is MUCH shorter than the lifetimes of the Rebel film SLR cameras. The same goes for the XXD cameras. For instance, judging by wikipedia's timeline, there were 5 advanced amateur (prosumer) cameras released over a span of 20-21 years in the EF range, the 650/620 and the 4 Elan models. Meanwhile, in a span of 9 years, Canon has released 5 XXD cameras and 2 DXX cameras.
After a while, they're going to run out of ideas to stuff into these new cameras or the upgrades will just seem lackluster and uninspired.
U.C. wrote:
The 7D than will be a 1Ds2.
I don't think you'll find many complaints with this idea.
too much spin is being given for canon & their master plans (ie. 5 year strategies).
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
I think the bigger problem is that too many bodies are being released in such a short period of time. The lifetime of the Rebel DSLR cameras is MUCH shorter than the lifetimes of the Rebel film SLR cameras. The same goes for the XXD cameras. For instance, judging by wikipedia's timeline, there were 5 advanced amateur (prosumer) cameras released over a span of 20-21 years in the EF range, the 650/620 and the 4 Elan models. Meanwhile, in a span of 9 years, Canon has released 5 XXD cameras and 2 DXX cameras.
After a while, they're going to run out of ideas to stuff into these new cameras or the upgrades will just seem lackluster and uninspired.
U.C. wrote:
The 7D than will be a 1Ds2.
I don't think you'll find many complaints with this idea.
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:13 PM
p.19 #7Canon 7D
kakomu wrote:
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.I think the bigger problem is that too many bodies are being released in such a short period of time. The lifetime of the Rebel DSLR cameras is MUCH shorter than the lifetimes of the Rebel film SLR cameras. The same goes for the XXD cameras. For instance, judging by wikipedia's timeline, there were 5 advanced amateur (prosumer) cameras released in the EF range, the 650/620 and the 4 Elan models over a span of 20-21 years. Meanwhile, in a span of 9 years, Canon has released 5 XXD cameras and 2 DXX cameras.
After a while, they're going to run...Show more →
I would like to buy a modern 1Ds2. With a nice 920k LCD, Micro-adjust, UDMA support and maybe the Ds3 viewfinder.... sorry, I'm just dreaming.
Glen_C wrote
too much spin is being given for canon & their master plans (ie. 5 year strategies).first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
After a while, they're going to run...Show more →
U.C. wrote
The 7D than will be a 1Ds2.I would like to buy a modern 1Ds2. With a nice 920k LCD, Micro-adjust, UDMA support and maybe the Ds3 viewfinder.... sorry, I'm just dreaming.
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:19 PM
p.19 #8Canon 7D
good point.
but now that canon has squander it's "sensor" technology lead the next 5-10 years might prove Canon to be ill equipped to be a leader in DIGITAL SLR bodies.
I also firmly believe 3 years between 5D & 5DmkII leaves room for inclusion of a $2800 camera level "auto focus" system.
Jumping out to a fast lead (thanks to the dRebel) doesn't make for a marathon winner.
It's easy to argue that as more quality & affordable glass is available for prosumers (EF-s, DX) canon will encounter more and more obstacles if they fail to change their master plan asap.
kakomu wrote:
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.I think the bigger problem is that too many bodies are being released in such a short period of time. The lifetime of the Rebel DSLR cameras is MUCH shorter than the lifetimes of the Rebel film SLR cameras. The same goes for the XXD cameras. For instance, judging by wikipedia's timeline, there were 5 advanced amateur (prosumer) cameras released over a span of 20-21 years in the EF range, the 650/620 and the 4 Elan models. Meanwhile, in a span of 9 years, Canon has released 5 XXD cameras and 2 DXX cameras.
After a while, they're going to run...Show more →
but now that canon has squander it's "sensor" technology lead the next 5-10 years might prove Canon to be ill equipped to be a leader in DIGITAL SLR bodies.
I also firmly believe 3 years between 5D & 5DmkII leaves room for inclusion of a $2800 camera level "auto focus" system.
Jumping out to a fast lead (thanks to the dRebel) doesn't make for a marathon winner.
It's easy to argue that as more quality & affordable glass is available for prosumers (EF-s, DX) canon will encounter more and more obstacles if they fail to change their master plan asap.
kakomu wrote:
Glen_C wrote
too much spin is being given for canon & their master plans (ie. 5 year strategies).first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
After a while, they're going to run...Show more →
U.C. wrote
The 7D than will be a 1Ds2.Aug 21, 2009 at 01:25 PM
p.19 #9Canon 7D
Zara wrote:
Nikon D3X - $8000. 24 mpx.
Canon 1Ds3 - $6500. 21 mpx.
Nikon D3 - $5000 (Is this camera still in production?). 12 mpx.
Sony A900 - $2700 (Was $2999 at introduction 09/08). 24 mpx.
Canon 5DMKII - $2700 (No price drop since introduction 09/08). 21 mpx.
Nikon D700 - $2400 (Was $2999 at introduction 07/08). 12 mpx.
I don't know why I listed this down............but I did
You probably wanted to show that a $3899 Canon 3D would fit nicely between the Nikon D3 and the Sony A900 as well as demonstrating that there's room for an entry level Canon 7D below the Nikon D700 
HAHAHAHAH!!! I knew I didn't do that for nothing!! But yeah, the next barrier is the sub $2000 - and there is a HUGE hole between 5000 and 3000........maybe Fuji??
roanjohnnyc wrote
So let's look at the current offerings for full-frame digital cameras.Nikon D3X - $8000. 24 mpx.
Canon 1Ds3 - $6500. 21 mpx.
Nikon D3 - $5000 (Is this camera still in production?). 12 mpx.
Sony A900 - $2700 (Was $2999 at introduction 09/08). 24 mpx.
Canon 5DMKII - $2700 (No price drop since introduction 09/08). 21 mpx.
Nikon D700 - $2400 (Was $2999 at introduction 07/08). 12 mpx.
I don't know why I listed this down............but I did
HAHAHAHAH!!! I knew I didn't do that for nothing!! But yeah, the next barrier is the sub $2000 - and there is a HUGE hole between 5000 and 3000........maybe Fuji??
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:26 PM
p.19 #10Canon 7D
roanjohnnyc wrote:
Nikon D3X - $8000. 24 mpx.
Canon 1Ds3 - $6500. 21 mpx.
Nikon D3 - $5000 (Is this camera still in production?). 12 mpx.
Sony A900 - $2700 (Was $2999 at introduction 09/08). 24 mpx.
Canon 5DMKII - $2700 (No price drop since introduction 09/08). 21 mpx.
Nikon D700 - $2400 (Was $2999 at introduction 07/08). 12 mpx.
I don't know why I listed this down............but I didYou probably wanted to show that a $3899 Canon 3D would fit nicely between the Nikon D3 and the Sony A900 as well as demonstrating that there's room for an entry level Canon 7D below the Nikon D700 HAHAHAHAH!!! I knew I didn't do that for nothing!! But yeah, the next barrier is the sub $2000 - and there is a HUGE hole between 5000 and 3000........maybe Fuji??
Sony is apparently coming up with a sub $2000 FF camera (a850), and Leica with a $7000 FF camera
Zara wrote
roanjohnnyc wrote
So let's look at the current offerings for full-frame digital cameras.Nikon D3X - $8000. 24 mpx.
Canon 1Ds3 - $6500. 21 mpx.
Nikon D3 - $5000 (Is this camera still in production?). 12 mpx.
Sony A900 - $2700 (Was $2999 at introduction 09/08). 24 mpx.
Canon 5DMKII - $2700 (No price drop since introduction 09/08). 21 mpx.
Nikon D700 - $2400 (Was $2999 at introduction 07/08). 12 mpx.
I don't know why I listed this down............but I did
Sony is apparently coming up with a sub $2000 FF camera (a850), and Leica with a $7000 FF camera
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:44 PM
p.19 #11Canon 7D
Is this the 60D or the 7D? At least a spanish store advertizing for a coming xxD-looking Canon camera shooting at 8.5fps
http://www.nivell10.com/images/fotos/5/c45.jpg
http://www.nivell10.com/images/fotos/5/c45.jpg
Aug 21, 2009 at 01:50 PM
p.19 #13Canon 7D
too much spin is being given for canon & their master plans (ie. 5 year strategies).
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
I think your second paragraph neatly contradicted your first paragraph. Incremental upgrades over the last five years is evidence in favor of a single planning cycle, not against it.
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
I think your second paragraph neatly contradicted your first paragraph. Incremental upgrades over the last five years is evidence in favor of a single planning cycle, not against it.
Aug 21, 2009 at 02:04 PM
p.19 #14Canon 7D
Fred Relaix wrote:
Is this the 60D or the 7D? At least a spanish store advertizing for a coming xxD-looking Canon camera shooting at 8.5fps
http://www.nivell10.com/images/fotos/5/c45.jpg
I doubt it, look at the justification of the badge on this one, your XXd photo has space petween the badge and the top plate, the '7D' does not.
And in case anyone cares, in Spanish that says
"CMOS Sensor
Self cleaning CCD
8.5 fps
full frame sensor"
Is this the 60D or the 7D? At least a spanish store advertizing for a coming xxD-looking Canon camera shooting at 8.5fps
http://www.nivell10.com/images/fotos/5/c45.jpg
I doubt it, look at the justification of the badge on this one, your XXd photo has space petween the badge and the top plate, the '7D' does not.
And in case anyone cares, in Spanish that says
"CMOS Sensor
Self cleaning CCD
8.5 fps
full frame sensor"
Aug 21, 2009 at 02:15 PM
p.19 #15Canon 7D
Sean Mills wrote:
I doubt it, look at the justification of the badge on this one, your XXd photo has space petween the badge and the top plate, the '7D' does not.
And in case anyone cares, in Spanish that says
"CMOS Sensor
Self cleaning CCD
8.5 fps
full frame sensor"
HAHAHAHAH!!! With that spec..........that will swat the new 5D and 1Ds3!!! Don't believe it.
Fred Relaix wrote
Is this the 60D or the 7D? At least a spanish store advertizing for a coming xxD-looking Canon camera shooting at 8.5fpsAnd in case anyone cares, in Spanish that says
"CMOS Sensor
Self cleaning CCD
8.5 fps
full frame sensor"
HAHAHAHAH!!! With that spec..........that will swat the new 5D and 1Ds3!!! Don't believe it.
Aug 21, 2009 at 02:20 PM
p.19 #16Canon 7D
Glen_C wrote:
the... 40D... shows you they are stuck on auto-pilot, resting on their laurels.
Eh?
The 40D is different in every functional respect to the 30D - they share no end-result critical components whatsoever, with everything in the 40D being new and (IMHO) clearly improved.
If that's "auto-pilot* and "resting on their laurels" keep it coming.
the... 40D... shows you they are stuck on auto-pilot, resting on their laurels.
Eh?
The 40D is different in every functional respect to the 30D - they share no end-result critical components whatsoever, with everything in the 40D being new and (IMHO) clearly improved.
If that's "auto-pilot* and "resting on their laurels" keep it coming.
Aug 21, 2009 at 02:22 PM
p.19 #17Canon 7D
Sean Mills wrote:
"CMOS Sensor
Self cleaning CCD
Wow! There's a CMOS and a CCD in there?
Cool!
"CMOS Sensor
Self cleaning CCD
Wow! There's a CMOS and a CCD in there?
Cool!
Aug 21, 2009 at 02:24 PM
p.19 #18Canon 7D
by SPIN i mean too many canon users defending their plans, ignoring it's deficiencies.
technology moves too fast for 5 year plans, customer loyalties shift instantly.
although you have great insight in this thread... there is no doubt things aren't as neat & segmented as you posted. Even worse (trying not shooting the messenger) is the insight is about what many consider an outdated business model/perspective.
many major Japanese companies (read anything about Sony as a shining example) are facing similar problems where boardrooms are stagnated by old guys. In fact Nikon's resurgence was not a 5 year plan but by all accounts a new regime taking them to where they need to be.
RDKirk wrote:
first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.I think your second paragraph neatly contradicted your first paragraph. Incremental upgrades over the last five years is evidence in favor of a single planning cycle, not against it.
technology moves too fast for 5 year plans, customer loyalties shift instantly.
although you have great insight in this thread... there is no doubt things aren't as neat & segmented as you posted. Even worse (trying not shooting the messenger) is the insight is about what many consider an outdated business model/perspective.
many major Japanese companies (read anything about Sony as a shining example) are facing similar problems where boardrooms are stagnated by old guys. In fact Nikon's resurgence was not a 5 year plan but by all accounts a new regime taking them to where they need to be.
RDKirk wrote:
Earlier quote
too much spin is being given for canon & their master plans (ie. 5 year strategies).first of all incrementally upgrading (nickle & dime planning) is almost AUTO-PILOT and wiill ultimately crash & burn. See any industry you want. The rebel and xxD models over the last 5 years are somewhat embarrassing in their lack of new design & purposeful feature crippling to justify up charging. The 1DsmkIII was a (vasly overpriced) yawner and while the 1DmkIII is their finest dSLR to date it was badly marred with product defect and public relations disasters.
Aug 21, 2009 at 02:25 PM
p.19 #19Canon 7D
keithreeder wrote:
Wow! There's a CMOS and a CCD in there?
I speak Spanish, I don't invent specs
... CMOS and CCD may be different acronyms in Spanish or simply photo vernacular that in English that just means to say 'sensor'. Which, it would obviously have.
If the acronyms were spelled out, I could be of more help
Wow! There's a CMOS and a CCD in there?
I speak Spanish, I don't invent specs
... CMOS and CCD may be different acronyms in Spanish or simply photo vernacular that in English that just means to say 'sensor'. Which, it would obviously have.
If the acronyms were spelled out, I could be of more help
Aug 21, 2009 at 02:28 PM
p.19 #20Canon 7D
CMOS = Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor
CCD = Charge Coupled Device
CCD = Charge Coupled Device
Aug 21, 2009 at 02:37 PM