prof_fate wrote:
All we're doing doing is pointing out that while Serg has a good beginning, if he wants to be a success...
Those of us that do make a living are just passing on our wisdom, our experience so that he may grow and prosper. We are not trying to beat a round peg into a square hole.
His definition of success might be slightly different from yours, especially at this point. ;-) I think he's hinted at this a time or two.
I do believe you're trying to help, but I think you're having a tough time seeing things other than through the lens of your experience and aspirations (as do we all).
Things have a way of working out, as I'm sure they will for Serg. Who knows where he'll be 5 years from now, at the ripe old age of 23.
"People's dreams are made out of what they do all day. The same way a dog that runs after rabbits will dream of rabbits. It's what you do that makes your soul, not the other way around." - Barbara Kingsolver, b. April 8, 1945
I'm sorry, but coming from the landscape forum, this forum is just too much personal arguing. I recommend the two combatants challenge each other to a duel and then end this messy thread.
Here's what I don't understand... I see quite a few people talking about what will sell, or what mother's/parents/grandparents would/will pay or not pay for. At the end of the day, it seems to be more or less irrelevant to me. The one thing that I know that the vast majority of us do *not* know is the details of Sergio's business, as it should be. So why the arguing over this? Sergio has customers coming to him for his unique style. At the end of the day, none of us know how happy his clients are. You can bet Sergio does. And if people are coming to him wanting that style, so be it. As far as what Mom's are willing to pay or not pay for, I don't believe for a second that the parents who are paying for these shoots don't know what they are paying for going in. And who are we to tell them what they should or shouldn't be paying for? I honestly don't get it.
Some of Sergio's stuff goes right over my head. Some of his work I absolutely love, and some is just not for me. I may not care for it, or understand it, but who cares? I keep hearing in 5/10/whatever years this is going to be a just a forgotten, laughed about fad. So what if it is? To my mind Sergio is clearly a talented photographer who is producing some really unique stuff. If his clients like it, and he's getting enough clients to make it work for him it seems to me that sounds pretty damn good. I'm also thinking that when/if people decide that they have had enough of this style that Sergio will be ahead of them blazing a trail doing some other unique stuff that will leave a lot of people scratching their heads and an equal number of people lining up to hire him.
I'm 41 years old and a father of two teenage daughters, 16 & 14. Yup, there is a lot that I don't understand or identify with regarding today's kids. My daughters will occasionally come to me to ask my opinion about something. (not often these days ) My oldest daughter loves to dye her hair all kinds of funky colors. She'll come down and ask "What do you think?" She knows I'll give her an honest answer, because if I don't like it I'll tell her, and add in, "But why should you care if I like it or not? Do you like it?" Don't worry so much about what others are thinking if it works for you.
Sergio seems to have a pretty healthy attitude about this if you ask me. He clearly stated that just because he doesn't reply to each response, doesn't mean he doesn't read it and think about it. What he is clearly communicating to all of us is that his clients are happy and there is demand for his work. Who am I to argue with that? And as far as he thinking he knows it all? Don't you remember what it was like to be that age? And that is not meant in a negative light at all. Thank God for young people with burning passions and convictions. The world would be a boring place without them.
Sergio, when I was your age I wouldn't have given a damn whether someone like me approved of my work or not. Having said that, I say keep up the good work!
alphakappa wrote:
The pictures are posted for a critique on the photography, not his business model....
Somehow we seem to be taking personal shots at each other right now and talking more about whether or not his pictures will sell, or what style he should adopt. That's irrelevant...
Hopefully we can talk about the photography itself, and not try to attack each other and our business models.
While I agree that the personal attacks are old hat, I think that the business of senior photography sessions is completely relevant to the discussion. It may be far more than the OP was asking for, but it is as relevant as it is interesting.
When I was a senior we all went for a standard portrait and that was it. Very rare was the family that was paying for a full session of art or glamour photography. It is encouraging to me that this business is changing so much, and it says a lot about the level of sophistication of our future clientele.
Scott C. wrote:
While I agree that the personal attacks are old hat, I think that the business of senior photography sessions is completely relevant to the discussion. It may be far more than the OP was asking for, but it is relevant.
Yes, but why worry about what will or will not work 5 years from now. He's doing something that works for him right now. If public tastes change in a few years, maybe he will adapt to the new styles or maybe he'll have a niche that attracts a select few.
I personally don't care what style he uses because style is about perception - maybe I'll get it, maybe I won't. Just because I don't get it doesn't mean that it's bad.
However there are some elements like posing and composition that one can definitely have a critical opinion on. Some pictures in this set do not work great as senior pictures, but I can definitely see the appeal as part of a set. (Okay, so mom would not buy the cutoff leg picture and frame it by itself, but if there was an online album with a bunch of pictures, it would certainly work great there!)
gordon l wrote:
I'm sorry, but coming from the landscape forum, this forum is just too much personal arguing. I recommend the two combatants challenge each other to a duel and then end this messy thread.
If you are new here (People) it's not always like this.
alphakappa wrote:
(Okay, so mom would not buy the cutoff leg picture and frame it by itself, but if there was an online album with a bunch of pictures, it would certainly work great there!)
I think if a class ring was in the foreground Mom would buy it
alphakappa wrote:
Yes, but why worry about what will or will not work 5 years from now. He's doing something that works for him right now. If public tastes change in a few years, maybe he will adapt to the new styles or maybe he'll have a niche that attracts a select few.
The OP seems mature and sensible enough to do just that... but the discussion has moved far beyond the OP and his simply stated post. That's a good thing. It's a sign of healthy community.
Why worry about 5 years from now? Because there are a lot of professionals here who want to be in business 5 years from now and beyond. The ability to identify, respond to and forecast trends in the business, as well as understand how they effect your bottom line is essential.
sure it is good to keep an open mind and be ready if/when trends change i think everyone knows that
for all we know sergio may have a studio set up and practice different lighting every night. I do remember a few shots he took with a abr800 a while back.
not sure why everone gets on his back and has to tell him what he needs to do or not. he clearly has fun and makes enough money to keep doing it. when you have fun and enjoy your work you will alway grow and get better imo
let him do his stuff and keep doing yours. if you can offer ways he can improve his work great let him know, if not move on.
This thread is a classic example of why it's important to learn to accept critique (and pick out the things that will help improve one's photography) but at the same time it's even more important to learn to give critique in a fair and constructive way - look at an image and say what you like or dislike about it and how it can be improved. I think some of the critique in this thread is good and very valid, some is good and valid but delivered in a destructive way and other parts are just downright patronizing.
My wife was sent to a well established photographer to have her corporate shots done. He did a nice job- very respectable shots. In talking with him she found out he was really slow- like about to go out of business slow. As far as I know, he does studio type 'old school' style shots only. Not the niche I would try filling if I were trying to pay the bills with a camera.
The OP has found a way to make it work- good for him. Pic of a bum? Pic of a shoe? So what. Sometimes 1+1 does not equal two- sometimes it equals five- adding a shot to a group can have a synergistic effect and really make the whole set work. Whether that one shot would be bought does not factor in as I will be this was sold as a group of shots and not ordered individually.
Photography is art. Some people buy some pretty ugly art and I will not understand it. They do, and that is really all that matters to the artist.
I liked the set of photos that started the whole string of comments. Now, who can show me how to download the coupon to get back the 20 minutes of my life I spent reading all this stuff?
I'm new to the people forum. Stopped over from the wedding/digital pro areas because of a rant thread about this forum.
Sorry to tell the ranter, but I like this forum! The wedding forum can drive me nuts at times. This is refreshing - a discussion, a long discussion even, and I'm finding it interesting.
I guess what alot of us are saying is we like Serg's attitude and drive. And he's got a talent. We assume (based on our knowledge at his age) that he lacks business knowledge, experience, a plan for 5 years down the road, etc.
We're saying "good job" and here's some things that we know, from experience, will aid you in your photography career.
But, hey, most of us are over 30 so can't be trusted, is that it?
) My oldest daughter loves to dye her hair all kinds of funky colors. She'll come down and ask "What do you think?" She knows I'll give her an honest answer, because if I don't like it I'll tell her, and add in, "But why should you care if I like it or not? Do you like it?" Don't worry so much about what others are thinking if it works for you.
