butter or margarine? HA
These are very nice, trademark Serg.
Not to much tilting and shifting which is good. Your not getting carried away and just delivering solid pictures.
Doug
I am not familiar with your work so I can't say this is trademark or not. As senior portraits go these are not very good. Nice images, great for a model, etc, but not what sells to seniors.
What is the purpose of senior pictures? Two - money for the photographer and only you know what this kid/parent spent. Secondly to document their entry into adulthood, basically. They are, more or less, at their physical prime but yet very self concsious and unsure of themselves. Most are still very much under their parent's shadow/protection/support (kids in many ways, not yet adults).
Senior Pictures should make them feel grown up, important, independent, persons of substance, showcase their accomplishments, record them (favorably) at this point in their lives.
OK, your first pic maks the kid seem small, lost and insignificant. Most teens feel this way without you emphasizing it to them.
Of the second 'pair' of images the first he has a goofy look on his face. A non-seller. The second isn't bad, a but much PP IMO and the angle has his ears looking odd - on both sides of his head. Not flattering or attractive. Not portraiture.
The empty lot with a bum in it and the kid very OOF? Try being sober next time. Or perhaps get mom drunk - this isn't a pic that will sell you to other parents/kids.
Four works.
Five, a pair - second works. First has very odd composition, distracting BG (Sky) and a nasty expression on his face. Not something mom will want on her wall or he'll want to hand out to his friends to be remembered by.
chest down shot..art perhaps, but a portrait without even the head in it is NOT a portrait. Might work as part of a collage. Again, not something other parents/kids will see and say "Yeah, that's the look I want for my year book shot!"
Sitting on the tele pole...by now I'm getting very tired of his strait square look at the camera pose. You need to learn posing. More variety if for no other reason. This pose does nothing to make the subject look good. sloping shoulders, bad hand posing, crotch aimed directly at the camera, etc.
the last 'pair'. The one on the right is much better than the one on the left - hey look, he's not staring straight into the camera! the tree needs to go, it's got no reason to be in the image and is distracting.
Overal you need to learn posing, composition, direction of your subject and get the hell out of photoshop. Make good solid images and then perhaps spice a few up with actions. PS effects do not make up for undsound fundamentals.
Serg, rockin set dude. the attention to detail and creativity in this set is awesome, seeing as you haven't shot a senior in a few months. i know how hard it is soemtimes to get groovin again. i definitely see the influence of your mentor and dig it. keep up the good work.
next time number these, noob.
1, 2b, 3 is tiiiight, 7 is awesome, 9b is class. good times bro, best of luck this year to ya. i can't wait for you to come down and shoot for me in june.
thank you for your input. i think you feel some infallibility when it comes to knowing what "sells" or what "mom wants". i urge you to reconsider this notion. my full prices arent listed online, but this was booked at my 2nd highest package. and i doubt that he was paying for it.
the response to this set on facebook/myspace amongst him and his peers has been amazing. he said there have been 11 people that have requested my contact information, and i have received 3 email inquries today, all referred by him.
i am 18 years old and graduated from highschool just last year. i think its safe to say i am a bit more in touch with the style, requests, and feelings of high school students. its pretty funny for you to get into the psychology of senior portraiture, when by any estimation it would seem that you haven't been in highschool for many, many years.
i have shot over 60 senior portraits in two years, and mastered the art of selling prints, canvas, and albums to artistically minded students and families. there are multiple Yuen Lui locations for those who don't need my service.
i think you are a little behind on the times --- quite blatant from the verging on hilarious commentary. your biggest argument is that my images don't sell. in reality, its quite the contrary, so i can't take anything you have said with any level of serious consideration, because you simply don't know what sells.
i do appreciate the effort, but its like writing an essay citing a source from 1975. just not relevant!
My education on senirors comes from studios that average $1200+ per senior and shoot anywhere from 200 to 500 seniors per year, year after year.
Good posing and lighting is timeless. Trends and styles come and go. The human body hasn't changed in thousands of years. Go study some 'old masters' (da vinci, rembrandt, etc). How they lit, the colors the chose, the poses, composition combine to flatter the subject.
You have the typical teenager 's attitude that "I know it all!". Let's see how you feel in 5 years. There's a reason the drinking age is 21, voting age used to be 21 - maturity arrives about then. I've worked with young people most of my life and I've seen it over and over again.
There is something to be said for shooting a style and those that like it will come as customers. But if you learn some posing, direction, basic composition you will be a better photographer. It won't turn into some old boring fart photog.
There are two ways to learn - the easy way and the hard way. Figure it out on your own and make mistakes or learn from other's experience. I choose to look at those photogs whose work I like and that are also successful. Someone that's been doing this for 25 years and does $1million or more in sales obviously knows how to succeed in this business. I don't need to have invented the wheel to profit from it's use, I just need to know how to utiliize it properly. Same with photography. Find the successful photogs and copy what they do. Of course you can tweak it a bit to fit your personal style and you should have something unique to offer your market to give clients a reason to choose you over the guy down the street.
I didn't say your images don't sell - if you read my first line i thought I said that quite clearly. And 'sell' is a relative term. I know photogs happy to get $200 average and some that are upset if it falls below $2000. Much of that is based on location - NYC and middle of iowa are gonna have very different averages, costs, styles, etc.
I've taken a few minutes to visit your website and see what a 'yuen li' is. The way you mention them shows that you're very much localized and lack experience beyond your neighborhood. College is a great way to open one's mind.
Yuen Li appears to be a big outfit with 13 or so studios in 3 states. Obviously they know what people want to buy or they would not be successful. On the other hand they have to offer consistency of product (color, pose, BGs, etc) to every customers - so they have what, 25 or more photographers and they all have to be able to do the same thing at every location for every session every time. That's not easy to pull off. The only way to do it is to have a system in place - and everyone uses the same system.
Does that inhibit creativity? Yes, of course it can. But it's working for them - and has worked for over a hundred years. Technology has changed, but a mom in 1880 or 2009 still has the same emotional connection to their children and still buy for the same reasons. It's a formula that works - and it works for a reason.
Can you succeed giving personalized service? Of course. But generally those that can and are willing to spend top dollar on art and portraiture know good from bad and won't pay for bad. Perhaps you can overcome that by being 'trendy' or 'artist with an attitude' or just charing an arm and a leg and being 'exclusive' but usually you need a reputation first. And rarely does that work for a long time - customers than buy on trendy or the like will move to the next hot trendy person that comes along.
Could be you're area is just very very traditional so you are the only alternative to yuen li's style of imagery. Where I live it's a bit rural and things are years behind the coasts. I've been showing CTB wedding albums for years but only this hear have brides begin byying them. The bride to be that was in last night looked at the book and commented "ive never seen anything like this - i like it!" and she's a lot close to your age than mine.
We have no big chains like Yuen li here, but we do have photogs that shoot the exact same head shot as they did for my parents and seem to own only one background and insist on selling one large wall portrait as their only package (yet all my customers hate that as it's what their mom (er, grandma) did.)
Go find your local PPA organization and attend a meeting -with an open mind. You may just realise they're a whole world out there for you to experience and lots of things to learn and incorporate into your art.
You have a look/style to your PP and posing. Customer know what to expect from you. But you lack variety in PP looks, poses, angles, etc. For your age you're doing well it appears. Just keep learning!
We don't really do the "senior photo" thing over here in the UK so I can't really comment about that except that they are nice pictures for this guy to have and are also pleasant on the eye of the viewer.
What we do have though over here in europe is a the legal drinking age of 18 and there's a reason for that too
Thank you prof_fate for saying all this. I think it would be good for Sergio to learn from it. Some people on this forum need a reality check.
As for my own views, I really do not see a diverse body of work or anything you produce. You rely so much on PP to make your look and its really sad because I really do not see the point of having a little kid in a picture with the senior being a blob. It just exactly not what senior pictures are about. You might appease to local kids because you are in the same age limit, something I am exploiting for my local area when I return home for the summer. I will be shooting various things traditionally but I think it helps glorify the senior, which is what you are suppose to be doing.
Go out and shoot some more stuff too. I use to shoot the same things and thought I was great at it but when you diversify and stop shooting the same thing, you realize how much it helps your style and what you want to produce. College is one the biggest things that has happened for my photography and I am glad I am majoring in photography. My attitude and style has completely changed since I have gone to college.
I had to post something because I was amused by the fact that prof_fate took so much effort to critique the pictures (after all that's why sergio posted the pictures here, right? to get a critique from the community here, some of whom might actually have the experience and insight he himself might lack) and instead of actually trying to see if he has any valid points all sergio does is try to defend himself.
To Sergio: Don't bother to defend yourself - this is not a classroom and you are not being graded. Open your mind to criticism and try to see if the people taking the time and effort to critique you have any good points you can absorb. The people praising you have nothing to offer you in terms of improvement. If you keep defending yourself like this, no one will bother to provide you any constructive criticism.
If you feel that prof_fate was harsh, then welcome to the real world. That's how professionals will view your work, whether or not they tell it to your face.
Again, in the spirit of what I wrote, take this as constructive criticism, and not an attack on you. You have style and talent, but as prof_fate said, you need to make a distinction between creating pure art and fulfilling the needs of your clients. Maybe this client is satisfied with the pictures, but the experienced hands will tell you that what the client wants is not what you want to put up in a art gallery, but something that makes them look the way they want the world to see them.
Sergio the day you stop learning and stop taking critique should be the day you put down the camera and find something else to do. Art is a constant strive forward.
A few years ago when I first attended a PPA week long class I thought my work (seniors in this instance) was pretty good. Hey, all my clients and family and friends said so!
Then I saw the work of the other people in the class. OK, I was below average not very creative at all in comparison.
Then the teacher critiqued my work - wow, what an experienced eye can see. I was blown away by what those 'in the know' actually friggin' know. You cannot fool an expert. They can look at your image and disect it like you'd never imagined - tell you the lens you used, the focal length, the aperture and we don't even want to get into lighting do we? I didn't think that was possible but I've seen it for myself. I can't do it (yet) but I learned a lot from that class. And that convinced me to keep going to PPA classes, seminars and such.
You have confidence and got a handle it would appear on sales and marketing (i serously doubt you've "mastered selling" at 18 though).
I see flaws in my images constantly. I make mistakes - everyone this is to make. But I've made a personal commitment to myself not to repeat mistakes but to learn from them. To learn from successful photographers. To (try) and bring some art to the 'boring' world of youth sports and school photos.
I'm 17, and a senior in high school, and a photographer. So in that sense, I am the most qualified person here to say what todays high school senior is looking for.
Everyone wants their senior portraits to be unique and different because everyone feels they are...unique and different. There are hundred of photographers for us to choose from but the majority of them lack style or anything that really seperates them from everyone else. However Sergio offers a fresh, new and unique style that people our age LOVE. We want photos that make us sand out, Sergio delivers that to every single one of his clients.
For the record, Sergio did my senior portraits and I love them. I have had an abundance of people come to me asking who did them and receive compliments on them daily.
edit- and I guess this is coming from a Washington/Oregon kids standpoint, we're kinda weird out here so I could be wrong about what other parts of the States/world want.
jimmyhickey wrote:
edit- and I guess this is coming from a Washington/Oregon kids standpoint, we're kinda weird out here so I could be wrong about what other parts of the States/world want.
There is a regional influence to it. What folks spend will vary by region too. It's rare on the east cost metro areas and the photogs that make the big bucks on this are midwest (ohio/missouri/illinois/etc).
jimmyhickey wrote:
Nice set, you better be enjoying that TS
I'm 17, and a senior in high school, and a photographer. So in that sense, I am the most qualified person here to say what todays high school senior is looking for.
Everyone wants their senior portraits to be unique and different because everyone feels they are...unique and different. There are hundred of photographers for us to choose from but the majority of them lack style or anything that really seperates them from everyone else. However Sergio offers a fresh, new and unique style that people our age LOVE. We want photos that make us sand out, Sergio delivers that to every single one of his clients.
For the record, Sergio did my senior portraits and I love them. I have had an abundance of people come to me asking who did them and receive compliments on them daily.
edit- and I guess this is coming from a Washington/Oregon kids standpoint, we're kinda weird out here so I could be wrong about what other parts of the States/world want. ...Show more →
there ya go. real life testimonial. real life feedback from a client (the ones i'm supposed to be pleasing). not a bunch of speculation. prof fate is saying so many points that WOULD be valid if i was getting negative feedback from clients. instead, its quite the opposite. a fact turns to gas when the truth is extracted, so i can't grasp it. and the truth is, i have a lot of happy clients, who are paying a decent price for a product that they are more than satisfied with. the basis of the critiques have been that i'm not providing, i'm not delivering, i'm not what people want.
"Maybe this client is satisfied with the pictures, but the experienced hands will tell you that what the client wants is not what you want to put up in a art gallery, but something that makes them look the way they want the world to see them."
if the client is satisfied with the pictures, who gives a rat's ass about anything else? i am providing a photographic service at a price. if they are happy with the price they paid for the service they got, i've done my job 100%. how do you know that what the client wants isn't what goes in an art gallery? by what standard?
keep in mind that amidst all of the commentary there is plenty of good critique, but i dont feel the need to address it, aside from a general "Thanks". i've read it, thought about it, and its all good.
Remember, everyone that comes to you loves your style. If they didn't like it they'd of course have gone somplace else. So sure, all your clients are happy. God help you if/when you get one that isn't! But that's rare for the reason stated above.
But I still stand by my critique. If it's working for ya, more power to ya. But to succeed long term in this business you cannot remain stagnant. As you say your competition has.
Imagine if you expanded beyond what you're capable of doing now what might happen!
I know lots of photographers that say "im doing just fine without a studio. why do I need one?". Perhaps you don't. I didn't have one then set up a ghetto deal and then 4 months ago opened a real studio space. Sales are up (in total client count) and per-client average is up. I've earned my investment back 200% so far - I can't imagine how much money i've been losing because I didn't have a real studio.
You have no idea how much money you're losing lacking the basics.
Heres my take: (Apologies in advance for the harshness on some of these, it is strictly opinion )
1. Completely terrible compared to your other work. No expression to me. I have no connection to the subject, I just see a bored kid with a bored pose staring into space and blurryness. I dont think this picture matches the excellent images I've seen you produce before.
2a. Trash it. Its like you caught him talking and doesn't add to his personality.
2b. I like this expression a lot. Makes the client look friendly. The PP is nice as well. Its not common to see a very nice top down pic but this one is nice.
3. Trash it. You dont see the kid at all, just a street bum. If I was a parent I would never pay for that.
4. This one is really nice. I would have liked to see a second with direct eye contact but this is a good one.
5a. I dont like the expression or crop in this one. Looks too P & S.
5b. This one to me is ok. It would be a lot better I think with the subject on the left and some space on the right.
6. This one is very nice. Great BW conversion, pose, and facial expression.
7. I like the concept but would not include it in a senior picture set unless there was something in the forground meaningful to the senior (maybe a class ring in the gravel?)
8. Very nice as well. Nice pose, comp, and facial expression. Looks "real"
9a. I'm not keen on the pose on this one or the composition. The pose looks stiff and the crop looks more P & S. I think a closer crop and a more interesting background would be nice.
9b. It works but I'm not a fan of the "noble" looking shot of people looking up in the distance. A parent would really like it though I think.
Thats just my opinion on them. Take with a grain of salt and keep posting
EDIT: Sorry for not being more specific in my critiques but the servers are going down and I didnt have much time to write.
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