You know there is a line between constructive criticism and just being rude. Saying to someone your work it trash, or this means nothing, and then justifying is by saying "well its just my opinion" is a load of crap. I especially can't stand people like Chrono who "apologize" before hand. If your going to be a nasty critique than at least don't apologize for it thinking it will make it better. If your going to be nasty do it with a pair.
The link that CANON PANTS provided is pointless as well. Completely different styles... Good for us, now we know what you like. That work probably sells but come on now..... he puts the girl in a high school musical poster? Very creative...... If that stuff is more popular then the pictures this kid is taking then there is something wrong with our society as a whole.
I think you are absolutely in tune with what parents and seniors want for their graduation photos. Personally I don't like studio photos at all and I don't think that many parents would once they saw photography like this. As you said the kids want something fresh that goes with their individuality. These photos are relevant to this generation!
CanonPants linked another post that has some great pics. Some might say there's too many textures, over saturation...whatever it may be but they look really good too. I think the fact that you are not emulating is pretty much the meaning of art in photography.
Keep doing what you're doing bro. Keep posting too. I'll be studying your photos(originality), not a canned studio light setup for this genre of photography.
And it's ok for me to write this because as everyone says....it's just my 2¢
prof_fate wrote:
I am not familiar with your work so I can't say this is trademark or not. As senior portraits go these are not very good. Nice images, great for a model, etc, but not what sells to seniors.
What is the purpose of senior pictures? Two - money for the photographer and only you know what this kid/parent spent. Secondly to document their entry into adulthood, basically. They are, more or less, at their physical prime but yet very self concsious and unsure of themselves. Most are still very much under their parent's shadow/protection/support (kids in many ways, not yet adults).
Senior Pictures should make them feel grown up, important, independent, persons of substance, showcase their accomplishments, record them (favorably) at this point in their lives.
OK, your first pic maks the kid seem small, lost and insignificant. Most teens feel this way without you emphasizing it to them.
Of the second 'pair' of images the first he has a goofy look on his face. A non-seller. The second isn't bad, a but much PP IMO and the angle has his ears looking odd - on both sides of his head. Not flattering or attractive. Not portraiture.
The empty lot with a bum in it and the kid very OOF? Try being sober next time. Or perhaps get mom drunk - this isn't a pic that will sell you to other parents/kids.
Four works.
Five, a pair - second works. First has very odd composition, distracting BG (Sky) and a nasty expression on his face. Not something mom will want on her wall or he'll want to hand out to his friends to be remembered by.
chest down shot..art perhaps, but a portrait without even the head in it is NOT a portrait. Might work as part of a collage. Again, not something other parents/kids will see and say "Yeah, that's the look I want for my year book shot!"
Sitting on the tele pole...by now I'm getting very tired of his strait square look at the camera pose. You need to learn posing. More variety if for no other reason. This pose does nothing to make the subject look good. sloping shoulders, bad hand posing, crotch aimed directly at the camera, etc.
the last 'pair'. The one on the right is much better than the one on the left - hey look, he's not staring straight into the camera! the tree needs to go, it's got no reason to be in the image and is distracting.
Overal you need to learn posing, composition, direction of your subject and get the hell out of photoshop. Make good solid images and then perhaps spice a few up with actions. PS effects do not make up for undsound fundamentals. ...Show more →
Wow! Let's hear it for prof_tate. He knows what he is talking about!
thank you for your input. i think you feel some infallibility when it comes to knowing what "sells" or what "mom wants". i urge you to reconsider this notion. my full prices arent listed online, but this was booked at my 2nd highest package. and i doubt that he was paying for it.
the response to this set on facebook/myspace amongst him and his peers has been amazing. he said there have been 11 people that have requested my contact information, and i have received 3 email inquries today, all referred by him.
i am 18 years old and graduated from highschool just last year. i think its safe to say i am a bit more in touch with the style, requests, and feelings of high school students. its pretty funny for you to get into the psychology of senior portraiture, when by any estimation it would seem that you haven't been in highschool for many, many years.
i have shot over 60 senior portraits in two years, and mastered the art of selling prints, canvas, and albums to artistically minded students and families. there are multiple Yuen Lui locations for those who don't need my service.
i think you are a little behind on the times --- quite blatant from the verging on hilarious commentary. your biggest argument is that my images don't sell. in reality, its quite the contrary, so i can't take anything you have said with any level of serious consideration, because you simply don't know what sells.
i do appreciate the effort, but its like writing an essay citing a source from 1975. just not relevant! ...Show more →
Boy, am I off base. You have my sincere apologies. I guess I'm really too old for this stuff.
BKphotography wrote:
Sergio has to be one of the most talented photographers I have seen on FM.
When you take into account his age it just makes it all the better.
dats cawz i dun got me sum education!
Knowing good from bad (posing, lighting etc) is the first step to making better images.
I'll be the first to admit I don't try to make art, I try to make money. But then i'm in my 40s and the only thing I have to prove is that I can pay the bills. But don't get any wrong ideas - I want to be the best photographer I can be and spend a lot of time educating myself, practicing, working to get there.
although I may have used a little more tact...i would have to agree with what Pro Fate stated.
1. I'm not crazy about some of the subjects expressions and poses.
2. This "fad" may look great on computer or the net, but i just wonder how well it looks for large prints.
IMO this type of style (you see it a lot in weddings)...the the way its photographed is a way of disguising the lack of commitment to posing you subject.
not to knock the original poster........
my 14y/o with a 50mm does the same type of images.
I think the term style is a way of getting around the lack of skills also. Starting from the basics of portrait posing and lighting then developing a certain style is one thing but using the computer to create what lacks in experience is another. To many times I have seen work that has a certain STYLE and that is the basis only for photographic merit. I agree with some of the harsh critiques on this post but I also very STRONGLY disagree on the way that we as photographers present these to each other. We are engaged in a craft that should represent us as ladies and gentlemen. Sergio you will do very well in the future. Stles come and go and your strong points will surface as you reach your own level of confidence. You have a gift to rely on.. Your youth.. Lots of water will pass under your bridge due to your enthusiasm. My self for instance has photograhed over a 10 thousand Seniors in four decades. I look forward as I type this and every time I pick up my 5D and capture a portrait to reach out and develop a new style or trademark that I am looking for. I also am not afrad to abandon a style and move on by viewing others works. Stand your ground from hostilities and don't hesitate to abandon styles that you think could improve due to camera and posing skills. I apologize for the others in this post since nobody wants to come forward on their own..Regards..Bruce
smigger wrote:
You know there is a line between constructive criticism and just being rude. Saying to someone your work it trash, or this means nothing, and then justifying is by saying "well its just my opinion" is a load of crap. I especially can't stand people like Chrono who "apologize" before hand. If your going to be a nasty critique than at least don't apologize for it thinking it will make it better. If your going to be nasty do it with a pair.
Think what you want but I wrote comments after each picture. Sorry I don't have time to coddle peoples feelings all the time. If someone is unable to take harsh criticism this is certainly not the right industry for that individual. This is all art, its subjective. Some people like it, some people don't.
I stand by my opinion. This is not even close to Sergio's best work.
EDIT: I did re-edit my original post to convey more of what I meant. I did not mean to call the pictures "trash" I meant "trash it" as in "I wouldn't keep it."
For those engaged in some age/generational conflicted "conversation"... time will settle any disparity between fad and tradition. That said, I think Sergio will make a mark, get bored with a stagnation of creativity (fall in a funk) and then his true commitment will lead him to where he will inevitably end up professionally.... whether he remains a photog... or moves on to something else. Serge, you are very young and the world/circumstances may yet find a different path for you. (or not) This is the order of things. We all need a fresh infusion of revolution followed by the traditions those revolutions hand down. Keep in mind, many of the classics were once considered to be breaches of the wisdom of the day and time they were initiated. I'm not by any means saying Sergio is a revolutionary, but his work speaks of contemporary... the best traits of which will be copied/honed and eventualy packaged/sold just as any new/fresh idea is or has been, until it very well may become a distillation and a "traditional/old fashioned" look one day. Only for the cycle to be repeated and Sergio attempting to deliver "advice/criticism" of his own to a young talent. prof_tate has seen a few of these revolutions and fads... and I tend to lean on the wisdom to mold something new.... respect for the art comes only from appreciating where your place is in the timeline....both the old and the new.
Mark, you sure have some literary intellect, don't you? A well thought out and written reply.
Sergio, I always look at, and enjoy your photography, and I agree with those that speak highly of your talent.
But, there are many things that can still be learned and it seems to me you have no desire at all to take it in.
I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for the guys like pro_fate and cgardner that have spent a lot of time trying to improve both themselves and the art/industry, and pass on that knowledge without asking for anything in return. You may not necessarily agree with what they have to say, but I think it would do you some good to at least read and consider what they have to say rather than easily dismiss it, as you seemingly do.
Best of luck to you Serg, though I doubt you'll need it.
i am happy, clients are happy, life is good. thank you all for your input. i learn things every day about photography. just because i dont individually address each contributor, doesnt mean that i dont read and digest. how do you know i havent? my next set might be right up your alley.
This set shows a terrific flair for PP and effect. I do not doubt for one second that many kids like the style and look of what you are creating. They are coming to you because you offer something that no one else does. The fact that your business is growing so fast will eventually come to the attention of the bigger studios, and they will copy your "look", but they will do it with professional photography skills.
They WILL have excellent posing, excellent composition, excellent direction and they will also offer your look. The question you might ask yourself is "what would a client pay if I could combine my artist flair with fundamental portrait skills?" How many parents are telling their seniors who desperately want you to do their portraits no because their is nothing they can send to grandma and grandpa.
Right now, your work says "Look what I can do with a camera and photoshop!" (note: what you can do with a camera and photoshop is pretty damn cool), but a PORTRAIT should be about the subject. It should be about that person, and how they are connected to the context of time and place.
Every thing Prof_fate said about posing and skills is correct. Look at the $$$$$ wedding photogs. The HOT look is PJ style, but all of them still give their clients the classic posed shots. Why does that matter? Because the classic poses take skill of working with people. If you can put this all together in one package, you will stay ahead of the competition, and more importantly, as tastes change, you can stay at the forefront, because your skill will be solid.
This kind of conversation has been going on for 20 some odd years. It's new school vs old school..... 15+ plus ago photojounalism hit the wedding scene. Everybody said it was a fad, now it's the most dominant form of wedding photography. Why is everybody is scared of change, it's going to happen if you want it to or not. Plus if the dude makes good money doing what he love, how he wants to do it. So be it.... as ya'll can see ya"ll ain't changing tha cats mind. And if ya'll done ya'll history in photography ya'll know that some of the greastest had no prior photography training. So to all the one's who don't like this kind of work...... if you see it's by Serg, don't click tha link. You have that choice. To all the one's who either shoot like this or striving too, look on baby.
Serg.. your work is often compelling and stylish. This set has left me wanting. The shot of the street dude is an example. I don't see the point, and I doubt that one will sell.. mostly because the oof Brian doesn't say anthing that it's Brian.. it's just an oof person in the BG. Likewise, the expressions come across as goofy, lacking confidence. Maybe Brian is goofy looking and lacks confidence, maybe not.
The buzz and satisfaction you get from your customers (I suspect) probably has more to do with the novely of the photography. Most other senior togs aren't using film / xproc looks and a TS-E lens. Kudos to you for having a unique style and carving out your niche. Perhaps your slow growth in the wedding market reflects a generational trend thing.. the 25-35yo crowd (in general) aren't attuned to your style yet... but today's 18-19-20 year olds are. So perhaps in 5-6 years you'll have more work than you know what to do with
thank you for your input. i think you feel some infallibility when it comes to knowing what "sells" or what "mom wants". i urge you to reconsider this notion. my full prices arent listed online, but this was booked at my 2nd highest package. and i doubt that he was paying for it.
the response to this set on facebook/myspace amongst him and his peers has been amazing. he said there have been 11 people that have requested my contact information, and i have received 3 email inquries today, all referred by him.
i am 18 years old and graduated from highschool just last year. i think its safe to say i am a bit more in touch with the style, requests, and feelings of high school students. its pretty funny for you to get into the psychology of senior portraiture, when by any estimation it would seem that you haven't been in highschool for many, many years.
i have shot over 60 senior portraits in two years, and mastered the art of selling prints, canvas, and albums to artistically minded students and families. there are multiple Yuen Lui locations for those who don't need my service.
i think you are a little behind on the times --- quite blatant from the verging on hilarious commentary. your biggest argument is that my images don't sell. in reality, its quite the contrary, so i can't take anything you have said with any level of serious consideration, because you simply don't know what sells.
i do appreciate the effort, but its like writing an essay citing a source from 1975. just not relevant! ...Show more →
Pro- fate..... This = OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Serg- Your style is something new.....untouchable even if it came with instructions (not kidding)!
The fact is... 99% of people hire us for OUR SKILL and STYLE.
