Does anyone know if the 58 1.4 will provide me with a spare spacer, ball-bearing and spring if I want to experiment (and replace my lost ball-bearing)?
Justin D wrote:
Does anyone know if the 58 1.4 will provide me with a spare spacer, ball-bearing and spring if I want to experiment (and replace my lost ball-bearing)?
The 58/1.4 has a spacer (shim, "silver ring"), and I am almost positive it can be used in the 58/1.2. There's a guy by the handle of "awldune" over at forum.manualfocus.org and I am almost positive he used the 58/1.4 ring on the 58/1.2. I can check when I get home (away for the weekend) and see if my 58/1.4 ring fits in one of my 58/1.2s. As far as ball bearings go, I think the 58/1.4 has only one, for the aperture clicks, and I am fairly positive it is the same size as the 58/1.2 bearings. Not sure what "spring" you are looking for, though.
Edit: Oh, I bet you are looking for the spring that sits in the hole where the aperture-click ball-bearing sits, right? I think that will work in the 58/1.2 as well. As long as the BB is the same size, then the spring likely is too.
The 58/1.4 has a spacer (shim, "silver ring"), and I am almost positive it can be used in the 58/1.2. There's a guy by the handle of "awldune" over at forum.manualfocus.org and I am almost positive he used the 58/1.4 ring on the 58/1.2. I can check when I get home (away for the weekend) and see if my 58/1.4 ring fits in one of my 58/1.2s. As far as ball bearings go, I think the 58/1.4 has only one, for the aperture clicks, and I am fairly positive it is the same size as the 58/1.2 bearings. Not sure what "spring" you are looking for, though. Edit: Oh, I bet you are looking for the spring that sits in the hole where the aperture-click ball-bearing sits, right? I think that will work in the 58/1.2 as well. As long as the BB is the same size, then the spring likely is too....Show more →
Thanks. I think I'll get one.
I am new to this board. Since ca. one year I have been busy buying manual Minolta gear. I got a MC Rokkor-X 1.2/58mm a while ago and liked the results very very much from the first glance. Didn`t know about digital conversion then.
I went deeper into sources about the lens´ versions issues. According to this source: http://minolta.eazypix.de/lenses/index.html
there should be three main outer design versions of the lens and some subtypes.
First Version of the Minolta MC Rokkor-PG 1.2/58mm is # 121 in the list, with the old (or "long") metal grip. I have never seen one. Does anyone here?
According to http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mciepl/chronology.htm it should have been built from its introduction in Sept. 1968 to perhaps sometime in 1969, when the design was being changed, probably in a successive manner instead of once for all lenses.
"Round about 1969 Minolta made a cosmetic change to their whole line of MC lenses. First-generation MC have longer focusing grips with more knurled sections, so the early ones are called ‘large grip’ and later ones ‘small grip.’ You can also see that second-generation MCs are constructed with cross-head (Philips) screws, where previously Minolta had used slot-head fasteners."
Second version is the metal "short grip" version, with convex and concave focus grip sections.
I know of and own two subtypes of this one - the left and middle one here .
- the first one (Ser.# 2507xxx) has slot head screws. This should be the older one, and indeed it suffers from yellowing. It also shows that the above generalisation is not perfectly fitting, as the change of outer design and screw types did not necessarily happen at once.
(I find it remarkably that the barrel already has the "diamond" shaped focus and aperture index mark, which is said to have been generally introduced later. Does anyone know about early "dot and triangle" 58mm's?)
- the second subtype (Ser.# 2006xxx) has philips (cross head) screws, no yellowing. I wonder if this means it is NOT radioactive.
So the change from radioactive yellowing rare earth lens elements towards the later ones seemed to happen during the "short grip" era. I don`t know if it coincided with the screw head change. Maybe my lens isn`t even originally the way it came from the factory, because the serial numbers seem a bit odd.
Third version is the rubber focus grip version mentioned above.
Subtypes:
a) with or without the "-X" designation (Rokkor-X), -X for the north american market.
b) lenses with "-PG" dropped, latest production ca. 1975 (?) to early 1878, when the MD 1.2/50mm took over. These should be the latest ones.
I am very much looking forward to testing the lenses, after a lengthy sunbath for one of them. Very much looking forward to cogitech´s performance opinion, too. The only seemingly known optical change of the 58mm seems to be yellowing vs. non-yellowing glass. Maybe cogitech finds another one?
Finally, does anybody have
- metal grip slot head 58mm's definitely w/o yellowing, or
- cross head 58mm's definitively suffering from yellowing?
Every example i see continues to impress me further. I really hope to get one of these lenses, but it has gradually gotten more and more expensive. I think it's still a great value, compared to something like the 50mm f/1.2L, but I would have to save up a bit for one. you know.. priorities.
I am new to this board. Since ca. one year I have been busy buying manual Minolta gear. I got a MC Rokkor-X 1.2/58mm a while ago and liked the results very very much from the first glance. Didn`t know about digital conversion then.
I went deeper into sources about the lens´ versions issues. According to this source: http://minolta.eazypix.de/lenses/index.html
there should be three main outer design versions of the lens and some subtypes.
First Version of the Minolta MC Rokkor-PG 1.2/58mm is # 121 in the list, with the old (or "long") metal grip. I have never seen one. Does anyone here?
According to http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mciepl/chronology.htm it should have been built from its introduction in Sept. 1968 to perhaps sometime in 1969, when the design was being changed, probably in a successive manner instead of once for all lenses.
"Round about 1969 Minolta made a cosmetic change to their whole line of MC lenses. First-generation MC have longer focusing grips with more knurled sections, so the early ones are called ‘large grip’ and later ones ‘small grip.’ You can also see that second-generation MCs are constructed with cross-head (Philips) screws, where previously Minolta had used slot-head fasteners."
Second version is the metal "short grip" version, with convex and concave focus grip sections.
I know of and own two subtypes of this one - the left and middle one here .
- the first one (Ser.# 2507xxx) has slot head screws. This should be the older one, and indeed it suffers from yellowing. It also shows that the above generalisation is not perfectly fitting, as the change of outer design and screw types did not necessarily happen at once.
(I find it remarkably that the barrel already has the "diamond" shaped focus and aperture index mark, which is said to have been generally introduced later. Does anyone know about early "dot and triangle" 58mm's?)
- the second subtype (Ser.# 2006xxx) has philips (cross head) screws, no yellowing. I wonder if this means it is NOT radioactive.
So the change from radioactive yellowing rare earth lens elements towards the later ones seemed to happen during the "short grip" era. I don`t know if it coincided with the screw head change. Maybe my lens isn`t even originally the way it came from the factory, because the serial numbers seem a bit odd.
Third version is the rubber focus grip version mentioned above.
Subtypes:
a) with or without the "-X" designation (Rokkor-X), -X for the north american market.
b) lenses with "-PG" dropped, latest production ca. 1975 (?) to early 1878, when the MD 1.2/50mm took over. These should be the latest ones.
I am very much looking forward to testing the lenses, after a lengthy sunbath for one of them. Very much looking forward to cogitech´s performance opinion, too. The only seemingly known optical change of the 58mm seems to be yellowing vs. non-yellowing glass. Maybe cogitech finds another one?
Finally, does anybody have
- metal grip slot head 58mm's definitely w/o yellowing, or
- cross head 58mm's definitively suffering from yellowing?
It also seems to me that the three versions listed in the chart http://minolta.eazypix.de/lenses/index.html are wrong, or do not apply to the MC Rokkor 58/1.2. The versions that I know of for sure are:
1) Metal focus ring. All versions radioactive. 200xxxx, 250xxxx, 256xxxx, 257xxxx
2) Rubber focus ring. No versions radioactive. 258xxxx, 259xxxx
3) Rubber focus ring. -X added to name. Later "PG" dropped completely. -X not added to export models. 271xxxx, 274xxxx, 275xxxx
The serials listed are ones I have seen myself.
All metal focus ring versions I have seen have had radioactive yellowing.
No rubber focus ring versions I have seen have had radioactive yellowing.
The 3rd revision got updated coatings, but is otherwise identical to the 2nd revision.
I do not believe they ever made a "long" or "large grip" version of the MC Rokkor 58/1.2.
Edited by cogitech on May 21, 2008 at 12:37 PM GMT
I don't really care what versions are floating out there until there's a test between them regarding qualities of images (apart from yellowing of course). Maybe the ones who already own a few can think of establishing a test?
All I know is I somehow want a 2nd copy different from what I have so I can test them myself. ( not at the current trendy prices though, it's already more expensive than Canon 50/1.4, where's the fun? and love? )
Leon Noel wrote:
I don't really care what versions are floating out there until there's a test between them regarding qualities of images (apart from yellowing of course). Maybe the ones who already own a few can think of establishing a test?
All I know is I somehow want a 2nd copy different from what I have so I can test them myself.
I am awaiting the arrival of one more metal ring copy and then I will convert these final 3 copies and test them against my other copies before drawing any conclusions.
Preliminary tests do, however, indicate that there are significant optical differences between the versions.
Sure, it is more expensive than the EF 50/1.4, but you know as well as any of us that the Rokkor is easily as good as the 50L.
In fact, it competes (seriously) with the likes of the Contax 55/1.2 and Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2, which sell for several thousands of dollars.
Edited by cogitech on May 21, 2008 at 12:49 PM GMT
I guess the crazy price increase must be due to threads like these. I am picking up mine from the post office tomorrow And with a little luck I will be spending tomorrow night doing the mod. Oh, no I am going to see Indy 4 tomorrow night! Well, then friday
I have just confirmed that the "UV flashlight" method works. 2 sets of 3 alkaline AAA batteries (IKEA) did the trick. I tried some NiMH AAAs and they did not last very long in the flashlight at all. (Odd, because they last much longer than alkalines in my daughters' MP3 players.)
The lens, which is a 99% mint condition 257xxxx copy, had a yellow/brown cast that matched my first older version (200xxxx). After about 24 to 30 hours with the UV flashlight, it now basically matches my other, newer (non-radioactive) copies.
Seeing as you have 6 1.2's and 1 1.4, can you make a quick note about the performance of the two in comparison? I'm expecting the 1.4 to get beat up pretty well, but how much are we talking? Interest would be in the f1.4-f2.8 region--subjective is perfectly okay. It's also looking like $200+ vs $30, and I'm cheap :-)
cogitech wrote:
1) Metal focus ring. All versions radioactive. 200xxxx, 250xxxx, 256xxxx, 257xxxx
2) Rubber focus ring. No versions radioactive. 258xxxx, 259xxxx
3) Rubber focus ring. -X added to name. Later "PG" dropped completely. -X not added to export models. 271xxxx, 274xxxx, 275xxxx
The serials listed are ones I have seen myself.
All metal focus ring versions I have seen have had radioactive yellowing.
No rubber focus ring versions I have seen have had radioactive yellowing.
The 3rd revision got updated coatings, but is otherwise identical to the 2nd revision.
I do not believe they ever made a "long" or "large grip" version of the MC Rokkor 58/1.2. ...Show more →
Hi,
great to hear the UV cure works with a cheap flashlight. Great work. Did you treat the lens from the back or from the front?
1. Here is a photo of the "long" metal focus grip version.
2. I own a "short" metal focus grip version 200xxxx that definitely shows not the slightest sign of yellowing. I had linked the comparative picture above. I do not believe that the lens was ever treated with UV, but will try to confirm from previous owner.
3. I doubt that optical changes coincided with outer design changes. For other Minolta lenses it is known that there are metal grip versions with and without yellowing (e.g. MC Rokkor-PF 1.7/85mm).
Details like screws etc. hint towards production time and hence, albeit not perfectly, towards optical versions.
So this is my best knowledge: MC Rokkor(-X)(-PG) 1.2/58mm
#1 Long metal focus grip. Radioactive.
#2 Short metal focus grip. Some radioactive, some not - optical change at some point during production of this type.
a) Slot screws (earlier)
b) Cross head screws.
c) Other? Progression of serial numbers? - this is open to investigation.
#3 Rubber Grip
a) w/ or w/o "-X" (regional, no connection to production date)
b) in MD-era: "-PG" dropped
Coatings were updated without announcement, and probably more often than outer lens design.
4. It seems the first three digits of serial numbers are not sufficient to identify a Minolta lens anyway. After all, I own a 250xxxx Minolta lens, and it is a 1.7/85mm MC Rokkor metal grip telephoto. This source always gives the first five digits. I am trying to contact the author at the moment. Maybe he knows more about the lens´ production history.
Seeing as you have 6 1.2's and 1 1.4, can you make a quick note about the performance of the two in comparison? I'm expecting the 1.4 to get beat up pretty well, but how much are we talking? Interest would be in the f1.4-f2.8 region--subjective is perfectly okay. It's also looking like $200+ vs $30, and I'm cheap :-)
D
I've converted the 58/1.4 but not tuned infinity on it yet (haven't sanded the shim at all yet). I plan to do just as you suggested if I can ever find time. House renos, 90th birthdays, portait sessions, etc. have been taking precedence lately. "It's always something" as they say.
( not at the current trendy prices though, it's already more expensive than Canon 50/1.4, where's the fun? and love? 
)