cineski wrote:
I agree with these statements. However, most people didn't like spending $3400 (or whatever) for the 5d, but they did.
No, they didn't. Despite being universally liked, the 5D was obviously not selling well for $3400. That's why its price had to be dropped by more than 30% only one year after introduction (the 5D has been selling for ~$2200 since the double rebates in Oct 2006).
With a price point of less than half than the Ds3, with performance similar to the Ds2, most pros will be all over this camera even at $3500 (even thought we'll be grumbling while buying it).
Agree. If Canon wants to sell a camera for $3500, they need to load it with pro features.
(Btw, this is the reason why the April 22 rumors are false - because if the rumored 5DII will cost $3500, it will definitely have the 45-point AF of the 1-series, not 29 AF points.)
A camera like this won't be for everyone, which is why it won't be priced starting with a 2 or a long time.
Agree. Canon should have figured out by now that consumers are not interested in $3K cameras and pros and not interested in expensive consumer cameras - even if they come with FF sensors.
So, if Canon is ever to make another $3500 camera, it will most likely be a pro camera. Other things to consider:
- the 1D3 successor, Canon's bread and butter pro camera, will not have a crop sensor - otherwise it will not be able to compete long term in ISO performance and resolution with the Nikon D3
- to compete on price with D3, the 1D3 successor cannot cost (much) more than $5K
- and if it has to be really competitive, it will have at least 14mp resolution
So, in the next 12-18 months we'll have a 14MP+ / FF / 10FPS pro camera for $5K.
The question is - where do the successors to the 5D and the 1Ds fit in?
And is Canon going to continue maintaining a huge gap between the 40D and the next class of camera (and leave the $2K market to the Nikon D300)?
I don't have any answers but I'm certain that we'll see big changes in the Canon lineup in the next 12-18 months.
Don't be surprised if Canon introduces something new way before Photokina. The Olympics will play a major role in their marketing decisions and not just for the pros. Canon wants to sell lots of new cameras and lots of new lenses to people from around the world who will be going to the games and to China in general, because of the games.
I think Canon needs to come up with a new AF system that is somewhere between the current 5D/40D and the 1D series. They need to preserve the higher AF points and higher frame rates of the 1D series, so the die-hard pros will still buy the 1D bodies. The 29 AF points would be a nice compromise.
gml1 wrote:
Agree. If Canon wants to sell a camera for $3500, they need to load it with pro features.
(Btw, this is the reason why the April 22 rumors are false - because if the rumored 5DII will cost $3500, it will definitely have the 45-point AF of the 1-series, not 29 AF points.)
Good points. However, despite the fact that you are indeed correct, Canon has a long history of disabling their mid-level cameras. A $3500 camera should indeed be loaded with features, but as we've seen in the past......
Rumors and wants aside, Canon is really in the position (due to the Nikon heat) to finally get a camera that's truly worth $3500 to the consumer.
I would agree with this .... and that is what makes this rumor and specs so believable. I have a good feeling about this, and think this "rumor" is started deliberately by Canon.
cineski wrote:
gml1-
Good points. However, despite the fact that you are indeed correct, Canon has a long history of disabling their mid-level cameras. A $3500 camera should indeed be loaded with features, but as we've seen in the past......
Rumors and wants aside, Canon is really in the position (due to the Nikon heat) to finally get a camera that's truly worth $3500 to the consumer.
If this camera is announced in April and not available for several months after that, it's in response to a loss of market share and an attempt to stop the bleeding.
I could have sworn this was a camera forum for photographers , but I'm truly amazed at how many marketing gurus are here. What I can't figure out is why Canon, Sony or any of those other clueless camera company s haven't hired them since they know so much about price points, release dates, features etc.
if this is the way Canon answers the Nikon D3 we will see a new Canon a few months after Sony introduces their new FF body, cant wait to have 28mp at half the price of a 1ds3. In fact I heard that Canon works day (new AF system) and night (less noise) on such a body.
The 5D when it was released, introduced a camera class for a ff camera that met the needs of landscape and portrait photographers at a reduced proce. It is still a wonderful camera almost 3 years later. The D300 and D3 are also wonderful cameras, but they are at different price points and attempt to cover a broader range of applications. By pre-announcing the 5D II or whatever it is designated, Canon would be making a strong statement to those that might be considering other options. As far the Mr. Edwards, yes I have been a technology marketing professional for 40 years and that doesn't preclude me from loving photography. As for this forum, it is about Canon photography and this topic is about hardware. Try lightening up!
Jeff
akovacsi wrote:
I too find the $3500 too much. Nikon will reduce their prices by then, and will still look more attractive than Canon's camera. Canon needs to have a sub $2500 camera on the market... $3500 is just too much...
Something near $2000 will attract pro and semi-pro shooters, and even amateurs like me...
For $1850 CDN the D300 has 51 point AF, but a crop sensor.
For $5000 CDN the D3 has pro AF and FF.
If the replacement of the 5D has pro AF, weather sealing etc., Canon would be foolish to price it around $2000. Not that I would complain about it it. It would be great to have such a fantastic camera for such a low price. Still, I am not going to hope for such an un-likely price.
judging by the number of moronic questions and crummy holiday snaps I've seen posted on another forum by 1Ds3 owners, I think there are plenty of amateurs and wannabes who will spend $3K+ on a FF body
antacid wrote:
i dont think they put so much thought into pricing their stuff.
it's more like during a beer session, someone says "hey. adachi, how much should we sell the camera for?"
adachi thinks for a second, and replies "well i figure i need a 10 mil bonus to get my new yacht next year, so how about $3000? you guys sell 10,000 of these and i get my new yacht."
The irony of that statement.
I'm sure there are those who would actually believe it.
Maybe, just perhaps maybe, (I know it seems hard to believe) they will price the camera at a mark up above the production price that allows them to recoup the development cost and earn a resonable profit. It's that wierd supply and demand thing that Canon seems to understand very, very well. Price the camera too high and there is no demand, price it too low and you don't make any money. Price it just right and you make a killing. It's not rocket science.
john_edwards wrote:
I could have sworn this was a camera forum for photographers , but I'm truly amazed at how many marketing gurus are here. What I can't figure out is why Canon, Sony or any of those other clueless camera company s haven't hired them since they know so much about price points, release dates, features etc.
John
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got some free time on your hands now that you aren't running for president? While I agree that we don't have all the information to make decisions, never underestimate the ability of an amatuer to out-do a pro. It may be just some schmuck MBA's job to plan the camera strategy for the the Canon group. Canon camera decisions may be made ultimately by a copier trained guy in Japan. I think that the posters on this forum have as good a feel as anyone in Canon as to what would fly. Now, not being disinterested parties, some might over-feature and under-price, but you can bet that the Sales and Marketing people at Canon are always trying to push the envelope on their R&D and production guys.
I think the comments about the olympics are very interesting, and I wonder how much pressure was felt after no new 5D at PMA this year.
