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Leica M EV - overpriced?

  
 
SlowDriver
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p.4 #1Leica M EV - overpriced?
highdesertmesa wrote:
RoamingScott wroteBeing afraid of outselling your fixed lens camera and dissuading possible Leica lens buyers has got to be one of the most braindead marketing strategies since Canon's 5D line if that's true.

There's a reason every other brand has pretty affordable bodies and expensive lenses...lenses are the profit drivers.
It’s crazy that neither Sigma nor Panasonic have made a rangefinder-style EVF M body. One could almost assume there is an unspoken non-compete regarding M mount bodies in order for them to be part of the L-mount alliance.

I would already be glad if Sigma or Panasonic had a more compact rangefinder styled L-mount body with an EVF...

According to the rumors the Panasonic S9 II might have an EVF... wait and see I guess...
Sep 10, 2026 at 02:11 PM
Abuttolph
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p.4 #2Leica M EV - overpriced?
johnvanr wrote:
Nielk Mike wroteThe price for the M series is high - and I always justified it because of the rangefinder OVF. The M-EV is basically no different from the Q - but comes without a lens. What justifies the price?
You’re asking about Leica if the price is justified?

That’s looking at it backwards. It’s only justified because people are willing to pay those prices, not by what the product costs to produce.

From what I understand, Leica's manufacturing process is more labor intensive than that of other manufacturers, which adds to the cost.
Sep 10, 2026 at 02:22 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.4 #3Leica M EV - overpriced?
highdesertmesa wrote:
RoamingScott wroteBeing afraid of outselling your fixed lens camera and dissuading possible Leica lens buyers has got to be one of the most braindead marketing strategies since Canon's 5D line if that's true.

There's a reason every other brand has pretty affordable bodies and expensive lenses...lenses are the profit drivers.
It’s crazy that neither Sigma nor Panasonic have made a rangefinder-style EVF M body. One could almost assume there is an unspoken non-compete regarding M mount bodies in order for them to be part of the L-mount alliance.

Honestly, why wait for the M EV1 arrival? A third-party brand could've brought a Q-style body with an interchangeable M-mount to market a long time ago. Pixii basically proved the concept, except they chose a rangefinder over an EVF. Between Pixii or an independent operating outside a non-compete, someone could definitely deliver a camera like this. The major Japanese players (Nikon, Sony, Canon, Fuji) would never touch it because they're strictly committed to their own native mounts.
Sep 10, 2026 at 02:31 PM
SlowDriver
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p.4 #4Leica M EV - overpriced?
Abuttolph wrote:
johnvanr wrote
Nielk Mike wroteThe price for the M series is high - and I always justified it because of the rangefinder OVF. The M-EV is basically no different from the Q - but comes without a lens. What justifies the price?
You’re asking about Leica if the price is justified?

That’s looking at it backwards. It’s only justified because people are willing to pay those prices, not by what the product costs to produce.
From what I understand, Leica's manufacturing process is more labor intensive than that of other manufacturers, which adds to the cost.

Kaufman I believe once said something like a Leica and a decent lens should cost 2.5 times the monthly salary of an average German worker.

My understanding is that Leica more or less has always tried to maintain that ratio.

So, less driven by the actual manufacturing cost in my opinion, and more driven by what they believe they can realistically get for a premium camera.
Sep 10, 2026 at 02:42 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #5Leica M EV - overpriced?
Fred Miranda wrote:
highdesertmesa wrote
RoamingScott wroteBeing afraid of outselling your fixed lens camera and dissuading possible Leica lens buyers has got to be one of the most braindead marketing strategies since Canon's 5D line if that's true.

There's a reason every other brand has pretty affordable bodies and expensive lenses...lenses are the profit drivers.
It’s crazy that neither Sigma nor Panasonic have made a rangefinder-style EVF M body. One could almost assume there is an unspoken non-compete regarding M mount bodies in order for them to be part of the L-mount alliance.
Honestly, why wait for the M EV1 arrival? A third-party brand could've brought a Q-style body with an interchangeable M-mount to market a long time ago. Pixii basically proved the concept, except they chose a rangefinder over an EVF. Between Pixii or an independent operating outside a non-compete, someone could definitely deliver a camera like this. The major Japanese players (Nikon, Sony, Canon, Fuji) would never touch it because they're strictly committed to their own native mounts.

How about a Sigma-Panasonic-Voigtlander M Mount Alliance? Heck, include Pentax since they obviously have nothing else better to do.
Sep 10, 2026 at 04:02 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #6Leica M EV - overpriced?
pmeheut wrote:
RoamingScott wroteWhy do you need 6 bit encoding when you can simply have a menu in the camera to set up your lenses manually?
You do not need it indeed. This is just less convenient making it harder to sell such a camera in a competitive market.



6-bit coding is archaic, and if I could buy new Leica lenses without it, I would. I hate how the Leica M11 handles coded versus uncoded lenses when swapping between them. It’s one of the most nonsensical and irritating things Leica has done with the M firmware.
Sep 10, 2026 at 04:08 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.4 #7Leica M EV - overpriced?
highdesertmesa wrote:
pmeheut wrote
RoamingScott wroteWhy do you need 6 bit encoding when you can simply have a menu in the camera to set up your lenses manually?
You do not need it indeed. This is just less convenient making it harder to sell such a camera in a competitive market.
6-bit coding is archaic, and if I could buy new Leica lenses without it, I would. I hate how the Leica M11 handles coded versus uncoded lenses when swapping between them. It’s one of the most nonsensical and irritating things Leica has done with the M firmware.

I agree, the way the current firmware operates is frustrating. But let's be honest...nothing is done by accident, and this behavior is exactly how Leica intended it. Why doesn't the camera default an uncoded lens to "Off" instead of sticking with your previous manual lens selection? Because Leica wants you buying 6-bit coded Leica lenses and avoid this annoyance. If you shoot modern Leica glass, you'll never run into this. If you want to use uncoded lenses, you either have to live with the manual switching or code them yourself. The real headache comes with lenses from Light Lens Lab or older Leica glass where coding (painting the mount) is much harder to implement by the user since the mount is completely flat and won't take custom 6-bit code paint.

I love how the M-D (Typ 262) firmware handles this: it sets lens detection to Auto when a 6-bit code is present, and automatically defaults to Off when it isn't. Simple and effective!
Sep 10, 2026 at 04:48 PM
retrofocus
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p.4 #8Leica M EV - overpriced?
RoamingScott wrote:
highdesertmesa wrote
RoamingScott wroteBeing afraid of outselling your fixed lens camera and dissuading possible Leica lens buyers has got to be one of the most braindead marketing strategies since Canon's 5D line if that's true.

There's a reason every other brand has pretty affordable bodies and expensive lenses...lenses are the profit drivers.
It’s crazy that neither Sigma nor Panasonic have made a rangefinder-style EVF M body. One could almost assume there is an unspoken non-compete regarding M mount bodies in order for them to be part of the L-mount alliance.
I'm not surprised by Sigma/Panny for that exact reason, but...DJI? We need a Chinese stakeholder going for blood and cutting the legs out from Leica to bring them back to earth. Where are the modern-day Bessas?

I wouldn't put my bets on a Chinese made rangefinder camera - instead I would expect a Chinese company to develop a competitor to the EV-1 M which is EVF based. Easier to make and reduced cost compared to a rangefinder - plus with M-mount which has no AF. Very simple and basic MF aids, mediocre EVF compared to latest and newest EVF cameras on the market. Make it for $1K, and count me in.
Sep 10, 2026 at 07:50 PM
RoamingScott
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p.4 #9Leica M EV - overpriced?
That was my thinking, I think the interest in OVF rangefinders is insanely niche globally.

retrofocus wrote:
RoamingScott wrote
highdesertmesa wrote
RoamingScott wroteBeing afraid of outselling your fixed lens camera and dissuading possible Leica lens buyers has got to be one of the most braindead marketing strategies since Canon's 5D line if that's true.

There's a reason every other brand has pretty affordable bodies and expensive lenses...lenses are the profit drivers.
It’s crazy that neither Sigma nor Panasonic have made a rangefinder-style EVF M body. One could almost assume there is an unspoken non-compete regarding M mount bodies in order for them to be part of the L-mount alliance.
I'm not surprised by Sigma/Panny for that exact reason, but...DJI? We need a Chinese stakeholder going for blood and cutting the legs out from Leica to bring them back to earth. Where are the modern-day Bessas?
I wouldn't put my bets on a Chinese made rangefinder camera - instead I would expect a Chinese company to develop a competitor to the EV-1 M which is EVF based. Easier to make and reduced cost compared to a rangefinder - plus with M-mount which has no AF. Very simple and basic MF aids, mediocre EVF compared to latest and newest EVF cameras on the market. Make it for $1K, and count me in.
Sep 10, 2026 at 08:35 PM
Jorge Torralba
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p.4 #10Leica M EV - overpriced?
Well, with all the talk of a Chinese company possibly buying Leica, you never know....
Sep 10, 2026 at 09:58 PM
 


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Juha Kannisto
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p.4 #11Leica M EV - overpriced?
highdesertmesa wrote:
Fred Miranda wrote
highdesertmesa wrote
RoamingScott wroteBeing afraid of outselling your fixed lens camera and dissuading possible Leica lens buyers has got to be one of the most braindead marketing strategies since Canon's 5D line if that's true.

There's a reason every other brand has pretty affordable bodies and expensive lenses...lenses are the profit drivers.
It’s crazy that neither Sigma nor Panasonic have made a rangefinder-style EVF M body. One could almost assume there is an unspoken non-compete regarding M mount bodies in order for them to be part of the L-mount alliance.
Honestly, why wait for the M EV1 arrival? A third-party brand could've brought a Q-style body with an interchangeable M-mount to market a long time ago. Pixii basically proved the concept, except they chose a rangefinder over an EVF. Between Pixii or an independent operating outside a non-compete, someone could definitely deliver a camera like this. The major Japanese players (Nikon, Sony, Canon, Fuji) would never touch it because they're strictly committed to their own native mounts.
How about a Sigma-Panasonic-Voigtlander M Mount Alliance? Heck, include Pentax since they obviously have nothing else better to do.

Cosina could be interested in making a digital M-mount body (again) but they'd most certainly need a development partner (like they had when they made R-D1 with Epson) as I don't think they have all the necessary SW resources for digital camera development etc. on their own and it might be a risky project financially.

I don't think there's any motivation for Sigma or Panasonic to be involved as long as they are partners with Leica, and they want to sell their own lenses etc. so making and selling an M-body without making lenses for the system etc. would seem like a strange sidestep for either company.
Sep 10, 2026 at 10:04 PM
old-gregg
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p.4 #12Leica M EV - overpriced?
Fred Miranda wrote:
If Leica puts the Q3/SL3 hybrid PDAF sensor in a future M EV2 or M12, a native green-box confirm for fully mechanical M glass is a software choice, not a physics problem.

Fred, you're omitting the second most important chip in the camera, the image processor. The M-series is one generation behind Q3/SL (Maestro III vs IV). That is where manual focus aid acceleration is implemented, and we don't know whether Maestro III is capable of accelerating Nikon-style aids. Firmware alone won't do it.
Sep 10, 2026 at 11:05 PM
Jorge Torralba
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p.4 #13Leica M EV - overpriced?
old-gregg wrote:
Fred Miranda wroteIf Leica puts the Q3/SL3 hybrid PDAF sensor in a future M EV2 or M12, a native green-box confirm for fully mechanical M glass is a software choice, not a physics problem.
Fred, you're omitting the second most important chip in the camera, the image processor. The M-series is one generation behind Q3/SL (Maestro III vs IV). That is where manual focus aid acceleration is implemented, and we don't know whether Maestro III is capable of accelerating Nikon-style aids. Firmware alone won't do it.

Exactly. Which is why Nikon's expeed 7 multiplex demodulator image galactic translator processor makes it possible for the green box.
Sep 10, 2026 at 11:41 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #14Leica M EV - overpriced?
old-gregg wrote:
Fred Miranda wroteIf Leica puts the Q3/SL3 hybrid PDAF sensor in a future M EV2 or M12, a native green-box confirm for fully mechanical M glass is a software choice, not a physics problem.
Fred, you're omitting the second most important chip in the camera, the image processor. The M-series is one generation behind Q3/SL (Maestro III vs IV). That is where manual focus aid acceleration is implemented, and we don't know whether Maestro III is capable of accelerating Nikon-style aids. Firmware alone won't do it.

No, he’s not. The Canon EOS R from 2018 does focus confirmation. Even the EOS RP can do it. It’s not about processing power, it’s about Leica simply deciding to do it on any of their cameras with PDAF.
Sep 11, 2026 at 05:55 AM
old-gregg
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p.4 #15Leica M EV - overpriced?
highdesertmesa wrote:
No, he’s not. The Canon EOS R from 2018 does focus confirmation. Even the EOS RP can do it. It’s not about processing power, it’s about Leica simply deciding to do it on any of their cameras with PDAF.


One more time: all operations on a live video stream feeding an EVF are performed by specialized hardware, not software. The key word is specialized. General purpose processors, which is what software runs on, are not powerful enough to process 60 frames per second in real time.

This is why, for example, Nikon cannot implement RAW pre-capture in firmware. Their current EXPEED generation can't do it. And we don't know whether Maestro III supports acceleration required to implement advanced manual focus aids.

Think of camera software (AKA firmware) as "configuration for hardware". Strictly speaking, it is not 100% correct to say this, but nevertheless, such framing is much closer to reality than your current mental model of what firmware does.

If Canon EOS R from 2018 does focus confirmation, it means its DIGIC processor supports it, that's all.
Sep 11, 2026 at 10:01 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #16Leica M EV - overpriced?
old-gregg wrote:
highdesertmesa wroteNo, he’s not. The Canon EOS R from 2018 does focus confirmation. Even the EOS RP can do it. It’s not about processing power, it’s about Leica simply deciding to do it on any of their cameras with PDAF.
One more time: all operations on a live video stream feeding an EVF are performed by specialized hardware, not software. The key word is specialized. General purpose processors, which is what software runs on, are not powerful enough to process 60 frames per second in real time.

This is why, for example, Nikon cannot implement RAW pre-capture in firmware. Their current EXPEED generation can't do it. And we don't know whether Maestro III supports acceleration required to implement advanced manual focus aids.

Think of camera software (AKA firmware) as "configuration for hardware". Strictly speaking, it is not 100% correct to say...Show more →

Focus confirmation is not a hugely processor intensive task like AI subject recognition that requires a special hardware chip. The Q3/SL3 are literally confirming focus with each shot when autofocusing or it would never take the shot. It’s just firmware code missing to simply light up the focus box or crosshairs green when focus is achieved when focusing manually.
Sep 11, 2026 at 10:27 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #17Leica M EV - overpriced?
old-gregg wrote:
highdesertmesa wroteFocus confirmation is not a hugely processor intensive task like AI subject recognition.
Sorry, not interested. I am here to educate, not argue.

Then please cite your sources that say a camera that ALREADY DOES focus confirmation when autofocusing needs a special hardware chip to do the same thing when manual focusing.
Sep 11, 2026 at 10:38 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.4 #18Leica M EV - overpriced?
old-gregg wrote:
Fred Miranda wroteIf Leica puts the Q3/SL3 hybrid PDAF sensor in a future M EV2 or M12, a native green-box confirm for fully mechanical M glass is a software choice, not a physics problem.
Fred, you're omitting the second most important chip in the camera, the image processor. The M-series is one generation behind Q3/SL (Maestro III vs IV). That is where manual focus aid acceleration is implemented, and we don't know whether Maestro III is capable of accelerating Nikon-style aids. Firmware alone won't do it.

I don't claim to be an engineer by any stretch, so I'm just looking at patterns and drawing comparisons to what other brands are already doing with manual focus aids. At the end of the day, Leica can absolutely make something like this work in the M system if they want to. Their non-chipped current M-lenses will work just fine since the camera does not offer IBIS.

I really think Leica's team would benefit from setting pride aside and spending an afternoon with a Nikon Zf. The manual focus confirmation on that camera comes surprisingly close to the natural rangefinder shooting experience...you're essentially trading the optical patch for a precise, clean electronic indicator. It feels like such an obvious evolution for a future M EVF, the SL and Q series, or even just shooting an M with a Visoflex. Once you experience that style of subject-tracking focus confirmation, traditional focus peaking and punch-in magnification instantly feel archaic. (Same for Sony, time to wake up!)
Sep 11, 2026 at 10:38 AM
old-gregg
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p.4 #19Leica M EV - overpriced?
highdesertmesa wrote:
Then please cite your sources that say a camera that ALREADY DOES focus confirmation when autofocusing needs a special hardware chip to do the same thing when manual focusing.

I do not have any sources. It is an educated guess. I worked on digital video cameras earlier in my career, and have a fairly good mental model of modern hardware/software split of responsibilities and the overall design process. Very little is done is software. Most of the time when customers wanted a feature, we couldn't do it because of lack of hardware support. Not only due to performance, but also energy efficiency limitations or simply not having support in the DSP vendor SDK. It's not just one company/team that designs the ASIC, its SDKs, and the firmware. It is always several teams/vendors each with their own roadmap, schedules and deadlines. Calling Leica "lazy" for not implementing it is hugely unfair. They are not in full control.
Sep 11, 2026 at 10:51 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #20Leica M EV - overpriced?
old-gregg wrote:
highdesertmesa wroteThen please cite your sources that say a camera that ALREADY DOES focus confirmation when autofocusing needs a special hardware chip to do the same thing when manual focusing.
I do not have any sources. It is an educated guess. I worked on digital video cameras earlier in my career, and have a fairly good mental model of modern hardware/software split of responsibilities and the overall design process. Very little is done is software. Most of the time when customers wanted a feature, we couldn't do it because of lack of hardware support. Not only due to performance, but also energy efficiency limitations or simply not having support in the DSP vendor SDK. It's not just one company/team that designs the ASIC, its SDKs, and the firmware. It is...Show more →

I don’t think Leica is lazy, I’m just saying focus confirmation for manually focusing is an artificial limitation since focus confirmation already exists for autofocus. And Leica won’t make firmware changes like that without customers asking for it, which I don’t blame them for.

For what it’s worth, the original EOS R and RP’s manual focus confirmation and subject detection working with manual focus lenses was (in my opinion — just guessing) a happy accident. I say that because the EOS R manual doesn’t document manual focus as having access to focus confirmation or subject detection. In fact, to enable it for a manual lens, one needs to have enabled it for autofocus.

(Edit to add: as discussed earlier in the thread, the EV1 can’t ever get focus confirmation since it likely doesn’t have the PDAF layer on the sensor. I’m only referring to Q3 and SL3.)
Sep 11, 2026 at 11:02 AM


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