With the X-E line, especially the latest X-E4 and X-E5, Fuji went with simplicity and moved away from unnecessary complexity (except for the menu options). It feels like a similar philosophy to what Leica follows. Because of that, it is hard to compare these cameras directly to most mirrorless bodies, except maybe the Sony A7C series, which also uses a rangefinder-style form factor. If you are looking for a camera with lots of custom buttons, deep grips, and full manual control, this is probably not the one for you.
What really makes the X-E4 and X-E5 stand out, and possibly turn into a win for Fuji despite the high price, is not just their clean design but also how simple and compact they are. When paired with a compact lens like the 27mm f/2.8 or the new 23mm f/2.8, they are even smaller than the X100 series. That is why comparing them based only on specs does not tell the full story. On paper, they may seem less competitive, especially now that their pricing gets close to some full frame options. But these cameras are about style, size, and weight, along with the ability to use the latest sensor, autofocus, and IBIS..
It's basically $300 more than the X-T50, even though both share almost identical hardware, including the same low resolution EVF. What you are really paying for is the smaller body and the rangefinder-style form factor.
To me, the only real drawback is the low resolution and low magnification EVF, but no camera is perfect, including the A7CR. Perhaps the refresh rate will be higher...Not sure.Every choice comes with trade-offs.
Fred Miranda wrote:
What really makes the X-E4 and X-E5 stand out, and possibly turn into a win for Fuji despite the high price, is not just their clean design but also how simple and compact they are. When paired with a compact lens like the 27mm f/2.8 or the new 23mm f/2.8, they are even smaller than the X100 series. That is why comparing them based only on specs does not tell the full story. On paper, they may seem less competitive, especially now that their pricing gets close to some full frame options. But these cameras are about style, size, and weight, along with the ability to use the latest sensor, autofocus, and IBIS.....Show more →
I kind of agree about “what makes” these cameras “stand out…” but those features were there in the earlier XE models, too — those aren’t new values added to the XE5. Even the fact that the XE5 has the latest sensor, autofocus, and IBIS is in line with how the XE models have always been configured. Those are good features — but they match the philosophy of the prior models.
Here’s a summary of body-only pricing for the XE models.
1. I had forgotten that the XE1 actually cost more than later models — even though I owned one! At the time, there were far fewer x-trans models — I think it was just the XPro (then the flagship), the first X100 In the current lineage, and the XE.
2. After that, the price dropped by $200 with the XE2, and then went up only $50 to $849 on the XE3 and XE4. (In retrospect, that was a great price on the XE4!).
3. The price jump from XE3/4 to XE5 is huge — the price literally doubles!
By comparison to other contemporary models, shrinking the price delta between the XE5 and other better models (to 0% in the case of the XT5) doesn’t make sense given its relationship to those models and the fact that the difference was a LOT bigger up through the XE4.
There’s a lot to like about the XE5, and the design could be perfect for some users. But that price!!!
gdanmitchell wrote:
I kind of agree about “what makes” these cameras “stand out…” but those features were there in the earlier XE models, too — those aren’t new values added to the XE5. Even the fact that the XE5 has the latest sensor, autofocus, and IBIS is in line with how the XE models have always been configured. Those are good features — but they match the philosophy of the prior models.
Here’s a summary of body-only pricing for the XE models.
1. I had forgotten that the XE1 actually cost more than later models — even though I owned one! At the time, there were far fewer x-trans models — I think it was just the XPro (then the flagship), the first X100 In the current lineage, and the XE.
2. After that, the price dropped by $200 with the XE2, and then went up only $50 to $849 on the XE3 and XE4. (In retrospect, that was a great price on the XE4!).
3. The price jump from XE3/4 to XE5 is huge — the price literally doubles!
By comparison to other contemporary models, shrinking the price delta between the XE5 and other better models (to 0% in the case of the XT5) doesn’t make sense given its relationship to those models and the fact that the difference was a LOT bigger up through the XE4.
There’s a lot to like about the XE5, and the design could be perfect for some users. But that price!!!...Show more →
It's definitely a huge jump in price Dan, and a lot of people may have a hard time justifying it or feeling good about the change. The X100VI, for example, still sells for $1,599, and that camera was never considered budget-friendly to begin with.
What used to be one of Fuji's most affordable camera has now become one of the most expensive. I think most people were expecting the price to fall somewhere between $1,200 and $1,400...
In a way, Fuji might have figured that raising the price and narrowing the target audience could help them keep up with production this time. But if that is the case, it is not a great strategy in the long run.
I’m not price sensitive when it comes to cameras but I’m not dealing with that EVF. Even the A7CR is worse than I’d like and I don’t use the camera as much because of it.
I sure like pretty cameras but the EVF is basically the most important thing on a mirrorless camera for me. I could drop the rear screen pretty easily if the EVF is good enough. This isn’t that. So I won’t be making the wait list longer for someone who wants one. Bummer. I was hopeful about it.
Well the X-summit is over, no surprises except availability, August! Yikes 2+ months from now. $1699, 2+ month wait…no thanks. I’ll eke out a few more months of service from my Zf and other gear. Maybe there will be a good sale around the holidays.
Price wise, when including sales tax and currency conversion, the VAT price is basically the same … interesting.
I’m probably the only one here who is totally fine with the price for value (to me). I’ve had many Fujis and the XE4 is my most favorite, so for me this is basically a “high end” XE4 with killer design language and my ultimate EDC.
I’ll have 5 pancakes to choose from, including the stellar and fun 18 and 27mm Voigt’s.
Call me crazy, but I think the XE4 is still the most elegant and beautiful Fuji X camera ever. Something about the 5 just doesn't sit right with me. Looks very "busy".
voltaire wrote:
Same price as in Europe and elsewhere?
I saw on Fujirumors today that it is €1549 for body-only.
524f44 wrote:
Well the X-summit is over, no surprises except availability, August! Yikes 2+ months from now. $1699, 2+ month wait…no thanks. I’ll eke out a few more months of service from my Zf and other gear. Maybe there will be a good sale around the holidays.
I didn’t watch it butI heard that the XE5 is supposed to be available in August… but that the 23mm f/2 pancake won’t be available until… December!?
I have questions.
Does this mean that the XE5 will only be available in the body-only configuration until December? If so, what will buyers do in the meantime?
And if the lens is purportedly coming in “December” that means that they’ll miss the holiday buying period…
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Responding to a few posts about the “look” of the camera with and without the 23mm lens: I think that the camera does work aesthetically. More and more it channels the look of old, small, rangefinder cameras. (I also agree that the XE4 has a well-designed look and feel for a camera of this type.)
flash wrote:
I’m not price sensitive when it comes to cameras but I’m not dealing with that EVF. Even the A7CR is worse than I’d like and I don’t use the camera as much because of it.
I sure like pretty cameras but the EVF is basically the most important thing on a mirrorless camera for me. I could drop the rear screen pretty easily if the EVF is good enough. This isn’t that. So I won’t be making the wait list longer for someone who wants one. Bummer. I was hopeful about it.
Gordon
Yes, the fact that the EVF resolution and magnification stayed the same was a deal breaker for me. (regardless of how cool the camera looks). If Fuji had improved that area, which I think is an important part of enjoying EVF cameras, I probably would have accepted the price and picked one up. A 2 megapixel viewfinder with 0.6x magnification just does not cut it anymore. I get that improving this might take some R&D since space is limited, but clearly that was not a priority for Fuji. Their focus was more on making the camera stylish and add their latest hardware which is now not so new anymore (sensor, processor, etc.)
Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes, the fact that the EVF resolution and magnification stayed the same was a deal breaker for me. (regardless of how cool the camera looks). If Fuji had improved that area, which I think is an important part of enjoying EVF cameras, I probably would have accepted the price and picked one up. A 2 megapixel viewfinder with 0.6x magnification just does not cut it anymore. I get that improving this might take some R&D since space is limited, but clearly that was not a priority for Fuji. Their focus was more on making the camera stylish and add their latest hardware which is now not so new anymore (sensor, processor, etc.))...Show more →
Me too Fred. This is a head-scratcher. I can only assume Fuji thinks the buyers of this camera will wear it like jewelry and when they do use it, will use it the rear LCD at arms length a-la old P&S style. They lost sight of their more dedicated photographer user base I guess. A swing and a big miss on two relatively small tech items that would have made a HUGE difference.
It's exceedingly clear that the "can't afford Leica but wants to be seen in public as a photographer" segment is who Fuji is chasing now, and why I'm done with them as a brand for now. Build quality, particularly the in hand feel, has been getting progressively cheaper feeling since the X-T2/X-H1/X-Pro 2 generation, while the prices have doubled.
Them breaking their own autofocus across the entire brand for almost a year was a laughable nail in the coffin.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Does this mean that the XE5 will only be available in the body-only configuration until December? If so, what will buyers do in the meantime?
At the end of the Summit when it showed prices it said the body and then the kit were coming August (Best Buy has this date shown as 8/28). Then it said the lens would be available December. So seems only way to get the lens sooner is to get the kit. Assuming they have enough lenses left over by December 😂
RoamingScott wrote:
It's exceedingly clear that the "can't afford Leica but wants to be seen in public as a photographer" segment is who Fuji is chasing now, and why I'm done with them as a brand for now. Build quality, particularly the in hand feel, has been getting progressively cheaper feeling since the X-T2/X-H1/X-Pro 2 generation, while the prices have doubled.
Them breaking their own autofocus across the entire brand for almost a year was a laughable nail in the coffin.
That's where I am at now too. I'm really glad they didn't sink the E line but this feels pretty value engineered for the price. Hard to know how much the global trade situation and Fuji approach to production is effecting price too.
Fuji is being reactive to a market that is already highly reactive to trends. It's going to lead to a lot of tail chasing. Fuji made their splash by thinking about the camera as a fresh human-centered object that felt more like a talisman than a computer with jog wheels. People were wrong when they said it was retro when in reality it was just an accommodation to a great photographic workflow approach.
I was going to consider this camera as my consolidation camera, but it doesn't out perform my A7C or my X100F in ways that I care about. The old XF 35/1.4 being the only vibe lens in the lineup these days isnt enough for me either and my last 23/2 was a terrible performer. Add to that my general dislike of Xtrans output it's clear to me that any future Fuji for me will have to be a GF.
ottokbre wrote:
That's where I am at now too. I'm really glad they didn't sink the E line but this feels pretty value engineered for the price. Hard to know how much the global trade situation and Fuji approach to production is effecting price too.
Fuji is being reactive to a market that is already highly reactive to trends. It's going to lead to a lot of tail chasing. Fuji made their splash by thinking about the camera as a fresh human-centered object that felt more like a talisman than a computer with jog wheels. People were wrong when they said it was retro when in reality it was just an accommodation to a great photographic workflow approach.
I was going to consider this camera as my consolidation camera, but it doesn't out perform my A7C or my X100F in ways that I care about. The old XF 35/1.4 being the only vibe lens in the lineup these days isnt enough for me either and my last 23/2 was a terrible performer. Add to that my general dislike of Xtrans output it's clear to me that any future Fuji for me will have to be a GF. ...Show more →
GF has its own set of Fuji-centric foibles that you'll have to come to grips with as well. Overall, both systems are starting to feel extremely bloated from a user interface perspective because they are dragging 5 generations of UI kruft with them. It feels like Fuji is operating without an overarching design ethos, and your trend-and-tail chasing description is apt.
As it stands, Fuji is asking you to spend full frame money for an APS-C camera that 1) has markedly worse AF than the competition, 2) has a markedly worse UI/OS than the competition, 4) has worse manual focus aids than the competition, and 4) has worse specs where it matters (like the EVF) than the competition. That's not at all the Fuji that won so many hearts in the early days of their mirrorless journey.
I get that it has tariff pricing and that doesn't really bug me, I'll save that frustration for the actual tariffs. The EVF is a disappointment but I guess it would be unlikely for them to put the X-T5 EVF on this camera which to me would be needed to get me to consider switching from that camera. So probably the only way I would go for this is if I was going on an extended city trip where easily stashing it away would be a big plus. So I was never in anyway. I do like the implementation of the sim dial and this camera does seems to kind of kick sand on the X-T50. But I guess that is nothing new.
RoamingScott wrote:
It's exceedingly clear that the "can't afford Leica but wants to be seen in public as a photographer" segment is who Fuji is chasing now, and why I'm done with them as a brand for now. Build quality, particularly the in hand feel, has been getting progressively cheaper feeling since the X-T2/X-H1/X-Pro 2 generation, while the prices have doubled.
Them breaking their own autofocus across the entire brand for almost a year was a laughable nail in the coffin.
If you're done with them as a brand why do you keep posting here on the Fuji Forum? Just for attention?
Malick80 wrote:
At the end of the Summit when it showed prices it said the body and then the kit were coming August (Best Buy has this date shown as 8/28). Then it said the lens would be available December. So seems only way to get the lens sooner is to get the kit. Assuming they have enough lenses left over by December 😂
Now that you mention it, they have done things like that before. But, wow, that is a long time to wait for the stand-alone version of the lens. And, yes, it would not be wise to place big bets on actual availability in December, and certainly not a bet on sufficient availability.
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In other news…
RoamingScott wrote:
…the "can't afford Leica but wants to be seen in public as a photographer" segment…
RoamingScott wrote:
The specs are sadly accurate according to Patrick at FR (you know, the "totally-not-an-arm-of-fuji-marketing" mouthpiece).
I'm beginning to think there may be some truth to that. While I do appreciate the site and check it regularly, the tone of the reporting often leans more toward promotional messaging than objective analysis.
