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A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025

  
 
FrozenInTime
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p.14 #1 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


RustyBug wrote:
What would be kinda cool is if the EVF was a "flip up" (or down) from the top plate, that would then position itself in the RF corner. Then, you could then view it like a miniature "waist level" display atop the body, without having to put your eye up to it, the way you do with the physical Visoflex. Then, you could still retain the RF option, or flip it down into the classic EVF position. So, rather than having a flip LCD, you could have a flip EVF. The Panny GX8 of sorts, but with a flat panel
...Show more

I had the same thoughts a while back, but it was ridiculed by the 'just use a visoflex' crowd.
A slim OLED flush with the top panel then add side rails. An optional waist level finder, similar to that of the Hasselblad 500 series could slide in to provide shade and a flip up diopter for close viewing; a pentaprism for 45 or 90 degree viewing would be further options.



Feb 18, 2025 at 03:12 PM
LBJ2
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p.14 #2 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


RustyBug wrote:
What would be kinda cool is if the EVF was a "flip up" (or down) from the top plate, that would then position itself in the RF corner. Then, you could then view it like a miniature "waist level" display atop the body, without having to put your eye up to it, the way you do with the physical Visoflex. Then, you could still retain the RF option, or flip it down into the classic EVF position. So, rather than having a flip LCD, you could have a flip EVF. The Panny GX8 of sorts, but with a flat panel
...Show more

Intersting. I looked up the GX8 to better understand the concept. *Good looking camera.









Feb 18, 2025 at 03:16 PM
BPsmith511
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p.14 #3 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


Leica won't even put an articulating screen on an M camera, adding any kind of EVF and making it articulate in the same generation is far too much for them.



Feb 18, 2025 at 06:27 PM
RustyBug
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p.14 #4 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


LBJ2 wrote:
Intersting. I looked up the GX8 to better understand the concept. *Good looking camera.



Imagine an RF "window" where the logo is. When you flip up, you could be looking through the RF. EVF is pointing up as an "EVF angle finder" that you can rotate down into the normal viewfinder position.

Personally, I think it is a matter of "more than one way to skin the cat" ... coupled with "where there's a will, there's a way."


Just a matter of waiting for Leica to decide which "skin" they'll mix / match with which "will".


And, while we talk about upscaling the Leica CL with an M mount to FF ... scaling the GX8 to FF with an M mount would be another option that I think would be well received. Imo, both the CL and GX8 are a pair of very under-appreciated gems. Maybe they were a bit ahead of the market, to their premature demise.



Feb 18, 2025 at 06:53 PM
SlowDriver
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p.14 #5 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


LBJ2 wrote:
My guess continues to be the rumored, so-called "EVF-M" 1.0 will be M11 w/ built-in EVF + some bells and whistles (based upon the LSI survey questions and notes I posted earlier in this thread). If 1.0 sells well, then I think we might expect more such tech introduced in version 2.0 of that model.

From the outside looking in, Leica seems to have a lot more going on than just manual focus lenses. I think Peter Karbe mentioned it can take about four years for Leica to produce a new lens, not because that process takes four years in and
...Show more

I agree. A few years ago Stefan Daniel said that they only needed to sell "a couple of thousand"... I believe that it is a target audience that Leica will easily obtain and with such a small number one has to also assume that investment will be minimal with probably very little bells and whistles.



Feb 18, 2025 at 07:59 PM
RustyBug
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p.14 #6 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


SlowDriver wrote:
I agree. A few years ago Stefan Daniel said that they only needed to sell "a couple of thousand"... I believe that it is a target audience that Leica will easily obtain and with such a small number one has to also assume that investment will be minimal with probably very little bells and whistles.


Let's see ... that's 1,000 standard units, 400-P units and 300 Safari, 200 Gloss Black and 100 Electric Blue Leatherette (with EVF Scripted top plate) versions.

Although, this time ... maybe they release them in reverse order, starting with the Electric Blue Leatherette's which sell out in 3.2 hours from launch.




Feb 18, 2025 at 08:08 PM
bwcolor
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p.14 #7 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


I’ve owned three versions of the Fujifilm X100 and I’m open to something more creative with regards to the ‘M’ series, but I would not feel the need to upgrade just to add the in camera EVF vs Visoflex 2.

I will be vacationing this year during monsoon. I would appreciate a few key weather sealed lenses and a weather sealed ‘M’ body. As it is, my ‘M’ will stay home. This would also boost Leica lens sales.

Also, if possible, some electronic components to the rangefinder where calibration on a lens by lens basis is quick and simple. Lens calibration values would then be stored on internal memory. Owning many more Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses vs. Leica, it would be best that this feature could extend to non Leica lenses. Obviously, the rangefinder experience couldn’t really change much, or Leica ‘M’ customers would revolt.

Fully articulating rear LCD might pass for an upgrade for those of us that mainly use the rangefinder, but resist mounting the Visoflex. For me, I love the Visoflex for fast and longer lenses, but I’ve gotten use to using articulating LCD screens on other brand cameras and as of recent, screens articulate in all dimensions.. handy for high, low, or candid shots. Perhaps, this is where modern material science is needed to produce a thin, but rugged mechanism.



Feb 20, 2025 at 01:05 PM
gordec
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p.14 #8 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


I think the best part of EVF-M is that you really don't have to worry about RF calibration. Unless the lens itself is badly calibrated like if it doesn't hit infinity.


Feb 21, 2025 at 11:11 AM
LBJ2
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p.14 #9 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


gordec wrote:
I think the best part of EVF-M is that you really don't have to worry about RF calibration. Unless the lens itself is badly calibrated like if it doesn't hit infinity.


Interesting. I hadn't considered til now.



Feb 21, 2025 at 11:45 AM
bwcolor
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p.14 #10 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


gordec wrote:
I think the best part of EVF-M is that you really don't have to worry about RF calibration. Unless the lens itself is badly calibrated like if it doesn't hit infinity.


I’m not understanding what you are saying. Modern mirrorless cameras using EVF, or LCD rear screens don’t use a rangefinder, but without a rangefinder experience many ‘M’ users will lose interest in the system. What is the ‘M’ in “EVF-M”?



Feb 21, 2025 at 01:50 PM
 


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RustyBug
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p.14 #11 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


bwcolor wrote:
I’m not understanding what you are saying. Modern mirrorless cameras using EVF, or LCD rear screens don’t use a rangefinder, but without a rangefinder experience many ‘M’ users will lose interest in the system. What is the ‘M’ in “EVF-M”?


M mount lenses ...

Fitted to proper light projection path through micro lenses and sensor stack that optimizes (vs. degrades) the optical design of M lenses.

Bear in mind that the RF solution is a means to an end that allowed lens design to be closer to the film plane than a mirrored box, predating current "mirrorless" electronic solution. This afforded M lens designs to achieve a level of optics in a given form factor.

A bit of chicken and egg, but the lens design is the driver that made the RF instead of other mirrored VF approaches.



Feb 21, 2025 at 02:10 PM
philip_pj
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p.14 #12 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


"the best part of EVF-M is that you really don't have to worry about RF calibration"

Yes, this. And the great experience of seeing what and how the lens sees, it's fall-off, its bokeh in various situations, its focal plane behaviour, its color, its contrast, its aberrations like curvature, fringing and spherical aberration. How much aperture to use to get the exact DOF you want. Hit rates increase as you walk away from potential shots that the lens does not like. Rangefinders promote camera-based photography, I love lenses too much to use one.

M users don't have to 'walk away'. And think of the photographers who have had the door shut on them, preventing an entry to the Leica M experience, for over a decade now.

This vanguard company of Leica has taken so long to modernise its premier camera line, even a little, at the margins of their business. The RFs will still be around for as long as people cherish them.

And, for every Leica M deserter that goes off in a huff (to where, exactly?), there will be many more MF enthusiasts who will walk through the open door to Leicadom. An EVF-M has to be affordable though.



Feb 21, 2025 at 04:18 PM
saxguy
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p.14 #13 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


highdesertmesa wrote:
The manual focus aids (inadvertently started by Canon with the R and RP) on the Zf are overrated, and they only work with electronically connected lenses with aperture communication, something the M lenses will never have. Punching in to zoom to focus is fine. I / many of us just want a native M-mount camera with an EVF because we don't want a sensor-modded Sony.


I tried the zf with the Voigtlander 40 1.2 and the 50 f/1 thinking that I would just rely on the focus confirmation aids. I used the magnification more than the green boxes. Ultimately, I prefer the files off the sensor of the SL3 and Q3 in terms of being able to pull from shadows better - but I loved using the two voigtlanders on the zf. I would consider adapting M versions to my SL3, but I imagine the native Z on the zf would perform better - as would an M version on an actual M camera. So I'm probably in the pool of potential buyers if they make the camera.

FWIW, IBIS would be nice, but I realize this probably wouldn't be high on Leica's list since no M camera has ever had it.



Feb 21, 2025 at 04:34 PM
DandA123
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p.14 #14 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


Obviously, this can go in so many directions (and permutations) and its anyone's guess at this point. There are both advantages and disadvantages whether its an M mount or L mount, whether it has IBIS, and whether advanced tech prowess is kept to a minimum or not, except for the EVF or alternatively something more is added to the mix. Then there's keeping the current diehard M uses happy who want to see the M line of cameras, remain faithful to its origins as much as possible, even though with each successive model, changes are incorporated. Pulling against this is Leica trying to bring new blood into the Leica sphere, especially those who desire a small rangefinder size and type camera but with the Leica ethos, color science, but expect the typical modern conveniences of today's cameras.

Which brings me to my guesses.

1. Leica could simply make the Leica Q into a interchangeable lens L mount camera but something tells me if they went this route, they would continue with the current fixed lens Q's for those that don't want to carry or invest in multiple lenses. I don't think Leica would go this way since the Q line is too valuable to rock the boat at this time with its great success.

2. They could simply make a M body ( with a M mount of course), except replace the mechanical rangefinder with an EVF. Whether they also incorporate IBIS or any other tech, might not matter to M diehards, as it doesn't keep with the M ethos. The blow could be softened to those individuals, by making this M body an L mount, as that along with the EVF would be enough to view it as a separate line of camera, distinct from the current line of M's even if it's marketed under the banner of a "M". Then, if possible, IBIS could be added. Of course the line of traditional M's will continue. I still doubt this version of camera will be marketed but it's certainly a greater possibility than #1 "above" and an entry point to what some (new to Leica) would see as an way to a true M camera that has the tech they are used to.

3. Recall the Leica CL? Not exactly a CL copy, but think along the lines of a mini, portable SL type camera. IBIS "yes", AF capable "maybe", EVF "yes", video "maybe",....and then the big question for me if such a camera came to fruition, I presume it would be L mount (although an M mount is a remote possibility). Basically, this camera would be for those who want a very portable, travel type SL type camera, but there would be additional emphasis on M lens performance (with an appropriate adapter of course), especially at the wide/ultra-wide angle focal lengths. This camera would be distinct from any line of cameras they currently have and would, I believe, have the least impact on all of Leica's cameras currently offered and instead add a worthy option.

Keep in mind I've never picked the winning lottery numbers nor which horse would come in 1st, so take my predictions for what they are worth.





Edited on Feb 21, 2025 at 10:05 PM · View previous versions



Feb 21, 2025 at 05:05 PM
gordec
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p.14 #15 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


bwcolor wrote:
I’m not understanding what you are saying. Modern mirrorless cameras using EVF, or LCD rear screens don’t use a rangefinder, but without a rangefinder experience many ‘M’ users will lose interest in the system. What is the ‘M’ in “EVF-M”?


Having slight calibration issue with body or lens is very common with M system. Some lenses even have focus shift at different apertures. With traditional M body, unless you have a reference lens that you know is calibrated to the range finder, you may never know if it's the M body or the lens that is miscalibrated. If it's an EVF that's reading sensor info, this no longer matters in most cases.



Feb 21, 2025 at 06:05 PM
icarus_
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p.14 #16 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


I didn't grow up on the M system. I didn't grow up on rangefinders, or even film cameras. My very first real camera was an Olympus OM-D Mk2. I'm thoroughly a product of the digital generation, and only through my father and friends who formally trained in photography and currently shoot professionally do I even have an inkling of what the analog experience is like.

Before I knew about the "M mount" lens system, I thought the Leica M cameras were so called because they were manual focus only (M for manual). I know in the Leica-verse there's an eagerness, almost a fetish, to limit oneself as an artistic endeavor - Leica has an entire camera line that doesn't shoot in color, and another one that doesn't even have an LCD screen. To top it off, both the monochrom and D models cost more than the base product!

That said, I as an intermediate digital photographer shrink from the idea of not knowing what the white balance, exposure, color profile, etc of the image is before I click the shutter. Even if I had the cash and desire to buy into the M-system, I would definitely have a huge adjustment period looking through an optical viewfinder and having no idea if my exposure is correct before taking the shot. I have a Fuji X100VI in addition to my Q3, and I abandoned the optical/hybrid viewfinder in favor of EVF pretty early on.

I said on the first page that an EVF might get me into the M system but the more I think of it, the more I realize what I actually just want is a Q with a 35mm lens. Beyond the EVF, the Q series has autofocus and weather sealing. I love taking my time and manually dialing in the shot when I can, but I've gotten too many great shots with autofocus that simply would have been missed if I had to manually focus. Additionally, these same shots have benefited from a shallow depth of field owing to a low aperture, which zone focusing would not allow for unless I were exceptionally good and lucky.

Anyway, TLDR here is I'm not quite sure who this is for but I felt the same about the D series and those seem to be selling quite well. Interested to see what the final product looks like.



Feb 22, 2025 at 06:19 AM
stgrove
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p.14 #17 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


A Q3 with a 35mm lens will give you 30MP in FF. Easy to do with the Q3 28 these days. What are you waiting for?


Feb 22, 2025 at 11:10 AM
LBJ2
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p.14 #18 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


icarus_ wrote:
I didn't grow up on the M system. I didn't grow up on rangefinders, or even film cameras. My very first real camera was an Olympus OM-D Mk2. I'm thoroughly a product of the digital generation, and only through my father and friends who formally trained in photography and currently shoot professionally do I even have an inkling of what the analog experience is like.

Before I knew about the "M mount" lens system, I thought the Leica M cameras were so called because they were manual focus only (M for manual). I know in the Leica-verse there's an eagerness, almost
...Show more

You wrote, "I'm not quite sure who this is for " from what I've read, a built-in EVF might help Leica Rangefinder aficionados that need vision correction assistance for more precise focusing that what they might be able to do with the rangefinder patch. Built-in being a convenience factor versus the external aids that Leica already provides e.g., screw-on to the OVF diopters and the external EVF the Leica Visoflex 2 attached via the hot shoe.

I would be surprised if a built-in EVF on a Very expensive manual focus-only M camera will bring in many brand-new Leica M customers just because of a built-in EVF, but time will tell. But then again using authentic Leica M lenses on a Leica M camera for the optimal M experience/IQ can be very alluring IMO so if an aversion to learning to MF with the RF is what stopped some from buy-in before, this could be a thing!



Feb 22, 2025 at 11:25 AM
wolfloid
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p.14 #19 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


A Q3 with a 35mm lens will give you 30MP in FF. Easy to do with the Q3 28 these days. What are you waiting for?

Better than that - 38.4 mp. F2.13 (dof).



Feb 22, 2025 at 12:57 PM
kahren
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p.14 #20 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025


Just add an evf...













Feb 22, 2025 at 05:00 PM
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