p.3 #1 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
OwlsEyes wrote:
As I was reading through this thread, I was thinking... "Didn't Leica already try this?"
In many ways, the CL Digital is the camera that people are looking for, but Leica abandoned it just as the format was beginning to get some attention. While the CL Digital is an APC camera, it was designed with rangefinder styling and essentially used the UI of the M10/SL2 series cameras. Of course this camera was an autofocus body and designed to use SL/T series lenses, but it was a starting point for what might be rangefinder-type camera.
If Leica wants to maintain the purity, "mystique" and retro-functioning of a manual system, they should not mess with the existing M-series camera... sure an EVF would be nice, but this style camera with interchangeable lenses have not done as well as companies thought they would. Other than the X100 series... which in Leica terms is a budget camera... there have been the X1-Pro and XE fuji bodies, neither of which seem to be continuing in the Fuji line.
As for Leica, they could create an EVF body built around the CL design ethos, make it full frame, and create a few manual "M-style" lenses that could be used directly on the SL mount. As a selling point, they could release the "Street Shooter's" model with a manual focus L-Mount Summicron 35mm f2 (price it a the Q3... or slightly above level), and it would sell like hotcakes. Users of this body could choose to use the autofocus L-mount lenses or the few special edition manual focus L-mount lenses.
This would be a great second camera for SL-series users, M-mount users, or a logical upgrade path of Q users.
I'm not sure an EVF M would have the enduring devotion of M shooters, but I could be wrong.
I'm in agreement with most of what you said, which touches on the need to not diminish the M brand as well as the enduring almost cult-like following of the CL. I have one and absolutely love it, way better than my last Q (I've had the Q, Q2 and Q3, sold them all) mainly because I can shoot AF with a couple of the L lenses I have, but also because I can use my fabulous M lenses with a thin, unobtrusive M-L adapter. Not too long ago I sold my M11P and don't miss it a bit because (besides using my M11M more than any other cam), the CL is just terrific when I want to sling a feather weight cam over my shoulder and snap some pics (especially with the 18mm pancake, translates to 27mm full frame). I took it out for a spin just this morning: https://brick.smugmug.com/2025-2-9-Key-West-market)
I don't see them making a fixed lens version because that's getting too close to the Q line, and I'm sure they don't want to canabalize its sales especially if it's full frame.
Either which way, it's fun to speculate on a new Leica offering which is exciting news for most of us.
p.3 #2 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
I have gone back and forth on this. Once I got the hang of the range finder I was set, zone focus, pre focus, etc...I get it and it works for me.
An EVF M camera is like me going back to the days of my X-Pro3 when I was just starting to shoot M glass on it. I see the benefits for sure, live exposure being the biggest ones and of course, full frame. But I enjoy the element of surprise especially now that I am shooting with the M11-D.
Let's see it first 😅
p.3 #3 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
OwlsEyes wrote:
As for Leica, they could create an EVF body built around the CL design ethos, make it full frame, and create a few manual "M-style" lenses that could be used directly on the SL mount. As a selling point, they could release the "Street Shooter's" model with a manual focus L-Mount Summicron 35mm f2 (price it a the Q3... or slightly above level), and it would sell like hotcakes. Users of this body could choose to use the autofocus L-mount lenses or the few special edition manual focus L-mount lenses.
This would be a great second camera for SL-series users, M-mount users, or a logical upgrade path of Q users. ...Show more →
As a CL owner I fully agree with you but the last 4-5 years Leica has almost entirely been focused on the Q and the M... I don't see that changing anytime soon.
p.3 #4 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
retrofocus wrote:
+1. The biggest bummer for me with such EVF-M would be if it comes equipped with L-mount instead of M-mount. I really have no intention to use my smaller M lenses with adapter. Then I can just get a Nikon Zf instead. As I mentioned above main reason for Leica to equip this one with M-mount is to avoid in-house competition with AF-based versions like the SL and Q-series. I hope it is s strong enough reason for them since I personally have zero interest in the L-mount.
I'm on the other end where I think a more universal L mount full frame but in Q shape, M shape etc. would be perfect. I have no interest in a Zf and I'd rather have a camera that plays well with M wide lenses. But the SL is too big in my opinion and having a small M sized body that I can swap between L lenses and M lenses would be awesome. Clearly a hole in their lineup. I think an EVF M that's priced down cannibalizes M sales as much as an M-SL would cannibalize SL sales.
p.3 #5 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
SlowDriver wrote:
As a CL owner I fully agree with you but the last 4-5 years Leica has almost entirely been focused on the Q and the M... I don't see that changing anytime soon.
They may not seen much focus on it if they could do a spin off of the CL since it could take SL lenses. Rehouse some of the SL series into a smaller flat form. I can dream anyway.
Faster read out times, etc, etc, etc. Just carefully read how the SL3S functions and imagine some of the functions pertaining to focus and sensor speed could work in a small M sized body.
p.3 #7 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
pinewood wrote:
They may not seen much focus on it if they could do a spin off of the CL since it could take SL lenses. Rehouse some of the SL series into a smaller flat form. I can dream anyway.
A more compact and lighter L-mount body with a 2nd second generation APO Summicron lenses (also lighter and smaller) would be my preference.
About the M with EVF, unless they can dramatically improve the manual focus experience I am not interested. Rangefinder focusing is fun, manual focusing with EVF not so much in my opinion.
p.3 #8 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
I see a Leica M EVF as something best understood by comparing it to the full-frame SL line.
To me, it would feel like shooting with an SL camera but in way more compact form. It would only support M-lenses and eliminate the need for an L to M adapter. In a way, it is a streamlined SL version that simplifies the shooting experience to something closer to a Leica M, with the difference of focusing through the lens instead of relying on a mechanical rangefinder.
Another way to think of it is as a modern Leica M body that is always used with an external EVF (As many shooters do) However, this setup would be much simpler and more compact since the external EVF would be built in rather than attached separately. Everything else would function similarity.
p.3 #9 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
all good points.
I still think they'll eventually release a full fledged M12 with a hybrid viewfinder - I don't see them ever abandoning RF focus as that would essentially be the death of the M line.
p.3 #12 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
It will spur a host of modern M-mount short telephoto lenses. Leica has had plenty of time to get this important move right, melding M sensibilities with EVF utility.
They know that for every diehard RF enthusiast, a lot of unmet demand either (i) stays on the sidelines or (ii) suboptimally uses the heavy/large SL bodies, or (iii) buys into genuine EVF systems on the side.
In five years time, people will look back and wonder why it took so long. Leica probably has a timeline set up for the future of this innovation. The feature set specification and 'M-ness' nicheing is critical.
p.3 #13 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
whiteonline wrote:
My prediction - as if it means anything -
M line stays unchanged
SL-c in the same vein of the A7c
Compact EVF body with an L mount (slightly crippled so not to cannibalize the big-SL)
Problem with that is the L lenses are huge. Even the primes are large. They'd have to make new SL lenses to keep size manageable.
Also, I agree with one the posts about MP. I have 2 M11s and an SL3 and the files are at times just too large. I think, for me anyway, 24 or 40 MP is enough.
I still think there is danger here for Leica. Similar to BMW when they started diluting the 3 Series cars and making them too large and fat. BMW had a few bad years by going the wrong direction.
I still think Leica should have continued the digital CL and made improvements. Everything anyone really needed in a compact camera. And it worked very well with M and SL lenses.
p.3 #14 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
Fred Miranda wrote:
I see a Leica M EVF as something best understood by comparing it to the full-frame SL line.
To me, it would feel like shooting with an SL camera but in way more compact form. It would only support M-lenses and eliminate the need for an L to M adapter. In a way, it is a streamlined SL version that simplifies the shooting experience to something closer to a Leica M, with the difference of focusing through the lens instead of relying on a mechanical rangefinder.
Another way to think of it is as a modern Leica M body that is always used with an external EVF (As many shooters do) However, this setup would be much simpler and more compact since the external EVF would be built in rather than attached separately. Everything else would function similarity....Show more →
Yes, keep in mind Daniels mentioned to have an EVF in his mind means AF lenses. Could be interesting to see that in M sized lenses.
p.3 #15 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
I think a new lineup of AF lenses is highly unlikely. They take time to develop, they are not small.
My guess is just an EVF with manual M lenses. Just easier to see and focus - likely with an easy-to-implement zoom function. Keeps M virtues (smaller body, existing lenses) and just modifies the viewing experience. Some benefits (WYSIWYG and precise focus), but you lose the relaxed view of the rangefinder. Still keep manual focus.
p.3 #16 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
I also think small full frame SL lenses seem unlikely; especially ones with features such as a manual focus scale. The M lenses thus remain most desirable for their variety, size and physical controls.
The missing link is a EVF system that makes use of the rangefinder cam to assist the electronic focus aids. A new M-L adapter is one route, but I would rather they the cut to a restyled M lens optimised body that houses a high resolution, high eye-point EVF - even if it does not look exactly like a classic M body.
p.3 #17 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
pinewood wrote:
I'm on the other end where I think a more universal L mount full frame but in Q shape, M shape etc. would be perfect. I have no interest in a Zf and I'd rather have a camera that plays well with M wide lenses. But the SL is too big in my opinion and having a small M sized body that I can swap between L lenses and M lenses would be awesome. Clearly a hole in their lineup. I think an EVF M that's priced down cannibalizes M sales as much as an M-SL would cannibalize SL sales....Show more →
Such EVF-M would be a lot more in-house competition with the SL series especially if it came equipped with L-mount. The SL series is still below sales expectation due to its bulkiness and larger L lenses - good series in general but also competing with many other FF MLCs in the market. Imagine a novel EVF made by Leica which can use the same L-lenses with AF capability in much smaller body size - many would switch and leaving the SL further in the dust behind.
An EVF-M with M-mount is competitive with traditional M-mount cameras but IMO to a much lesser degree. The M system is primarily purchased by people who like the compact rangefinder focus system with OVF - me included! But there are plenty of situations where I prefer having in-camera EVF over traditional rangefinder OVF - I would potentially add such EVF-M to my existing rangefinder M cameras but won't replace any of them with the EVF-M. I believe many M-users are in the same boat - seeing the EVF-M as addition but not replacement. An indication that Leica sees it in the same way is that they are committed to continue the traditional M series, and the article stated that such EVF-M is seen as addition to the traditional M-series.
An EVF-M with M-mount wouldn't compete much with Q-series cameras either since the Q has established itself in a powerful single lens compact FF camera with AF and close-up capability. Many Q-users seem to like the fixed focal length and no need to change lenses (not my pair of shoes but this is what I am reading, and the Q sells well, too).
Overall, I think Leica has recognized that such EVF-M will fill a nice niche they currently don't have but users would like to have it.
p.3 #18 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
crf59 wrote:
Problem with that is the L lenses are huge. Even the primes are large. They'd have to make new SL lenses to keep size manageable.
Also, I agree with one the posts about MP. I have 2 M11s and an SL3 and the files are at times just too large. I think, for me anyway, 24 or 40 MP is enough.
I still think there is danger here for Leica. Similar to BMW when they started diluting the 3 Series cars and making them too large and fat. BMW had a few bad years by going the wrong direction.
I still think Leica should have continued the digital CL and made improvements. Everything anyone really needed in a compact camera. And it worked very well with M and SL lenses....Show more →
I dont know about the size issue.
They do make a reasonably sized autofocus “28mm” f/1.7 and 43mm f/2 after all.
Leica L lenses are so large because of chasing optical perfection I assume. Perhaps they follow Canon into the land of digital correction for this line?
Whatever it is - if we get a capable M-sized EFV ILC, I will be near-first in line for the second version.
p.3 #19 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
How long has Leica not made auto focus lenses for the M? When SLRs in the 1980s were doing auto focus Leica stayed with manual focus for the M. So I doubt they will change now.
p.3 #20 · A Leica M camera with an EVF is expected by the end of 2025
airfrogusmc wrote:
How long has Leica not made auto focus lenses for the M? When SLRs in the 1980s were doing auto focus Leica stayed with manual focus for the M. So I doubt they will change now.
If Leica history is an y indication, for how many years was there no monochrome digital camera? Then out of the blue the M9M.
May 3, 2025 celebrating 100 years of Leica is what M3 reissue day?
